Pellet Fan
Pit Talk -- Comments and Questions Regarding These Pellet Pits => Firecraft => Topic started by: MN-Smoker on December 29, 2019, 11:10:58 AM
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It's raining out, but I used it in the rain before.
Turned it on. Powered up.
Then all of a sudden it went black.
Tried unplugging, re-plugging in.
Nothing.
Assume I fried the controller in the rain.
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Check your power, you may have just tripped a GFI circuit,
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I'm going to use mine til it blows....then I'm going back to Rec Tec.
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Hopefully it's the GFI. That would be my first guess too. Keeping my fingers crossed for you!
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Probably a fuse on the panel some place. Can probably find them at an auto parts store, or maybe even wally world.
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If it is the controller and you want to keep the Q-450 going, look up:
Louisiana Grills 50127
Around $200
If you do get the 50127, you will likely need to adjust the "C" settings to match the Firecraft configuration.
There are also other grills that use the same Roanoke controller (Blaz'n Grills, etc.).
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Check the GFCI reset if that’s what you plugged into. Could be that your igniter is going bad. If so, that should be a relatively cheap fix.
If you need a new controller, Smoke-N-Hot Grills has a very similar looking one for $50 the last time I checked their site. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the same manufacturer as the Firecraft ones. Good luck.
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Hi all,
Thanks for all the replies. I was a away for a bit, but it did trip the GFCI.
I was happy to see that.
Issue is now it trips the GFCI every couple minutes.
One night I was trying to use it and reset the GFCI about 3 times.
I plugged it into another nearby outdoor outlet and same thing happened.
It hasn't been warm enough for me to run it to another outlet, but something is making it trip frequently where before it had never been an issue.
I was thinking about dumping out the pellets to make sure the auger isn't having issues, but weather hasn't been warm enough for me to want to try it.
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Maybe try removing the end plate to the left of the controller, grab your wife's blow dryer and see if you can evaporate any water that has been allowed in.
If that fixes things, try adding a bead of RTV around the front panel where it comes in contact with the stainless front plate.
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unplug the igniter from the control panel and start it up and see if it trips again. If not it may be the ignitor needs to be replaced
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unplug the igniter from the control panel and start it up and see if it trips again. If not it may be the ignitor needs to be replaced
Only if the problem is during startup ~ first 4 min. After that could be the GFIC on the way out, a damp or wet extension cord or something in or around the control board shorting out, either by being wet or physically, bare wires touching the metal framework.
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Hi,
Thanks everyone for the advice!
I haven't used it for a while and I just had my son help move it into my slightly warmer garage to look things over. With a foot of snow coming, it seems like a wiser decision.
I popped the side panel and found some old pellets that got wet. They accumulated in the area where the electric cord comes in to the box and splits into three separate wires.
I believe this is the culprit.
I think in the frozen temperature, it works for a bit, but electricity passes through there it was starting to melt some of the piled up moistened / frozen pellets, causing it to trip.
I'm moving it to the garage where it can warm up some. Vacuum out those pellets and let her get dry as a bone, and with a tiny bit of luck, we'll be operating again.
Thanks again!
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igniter
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igniter
Speaking of, I need a new one for my 6+ year old Memphis Elite. Can you PM me on how to get one?
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So I cleaned it up and put it outside to use.
GFCI flipped again.
Brought it back into the garage and plugged it into a powerstrip with a surge / reset to see if I could get it to trip that.
Let it sit in the garage and looked things over. Made sure everything was dry. Cleared out the pellets, etc.
Fired it up and ran it for about 5-10 minutes without the breaker going. Auger fine. Also the igniter got hot to the touch.
Don't know if it's drawing more electricity now that what it used to. Might be worth switching out but it still works.
My next test is to test it outside of the garage on this other outlet with a wattage meter on it to see what it's drawing.
PM's welcomed on the igniter suggestions.
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Frustrating.
I put a meter on it to see how many watts it's pulling.
About 350 typically with a surge to 360 when the auger runs.
The unit runs fine and ignites. Seems to work fine for 5-10 minutes. Long enough for temps to get into the 100's.
Then suddenly it trips the GFCI.
I have a garage fridge on the same GFCI which draws up to 900 watts when it's running. No issues with the GFCI tripping with the fridge.
I unplugged the fridge and tried the pellet grill again. Again, got it started. Pulling about 350-360 watts.
Running fine through startup and light up, then pop.
GFCI goes again.
I don't know what would be causing a surge of power, so that's not the issue, so it must be some sort of intermittent short that must be causing it.
I'm guessing the next thing to do is to start replacing components.
I should probably start with the ignitor rod. Not sure how to replace it, but it's probably the least expensive part and the most prone to failure.
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First off, does the meter you are using register max wattage? If it does, what was it? Next, all the current draw ( Watts ) you listed are spot on. There isn't anything there that would cause a "breaker" to trip..
A GFIC doesn't work like a breaker/fuse does. There is something shorting to ground or a GFIC on its way out. The igniter should only be on @ start up, ~ 4 Min., witnessed by a current drop of ~ 200 to
300 Watts. There are two, no parts required tests you can try: 1/ Use another power source that is GFIC fed and see if the problem repeats..2/ Disconnect the igniter and start the pit manually. (Can describe
later if you don't know how) Run it thru its paces. If the problem repeats it's not the igniter. If the pit keeps going, it's the igniter circuit, most likely but not limited to the igniter. Don't let this metal beast get
you down. You are much smarter than any pit my friend!
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Gee, that's a good post, Canadian John.
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It sounds like the GFI circuit is tripping after the igniter has already shut off. Since the time to trip appears to be somewhat variable, I suspect that it may be caused by increased temperature. Some component in the pit could be expanding/failing with heat and is shorting out an internal circuit. If this is the case, it will be very hard to isolate the problem and may be cheaper to just replace the controller. Since this started in the rain, you might remove the controller and pack it in rice for a few days to see if drying it out would help. :2cents:
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I had a few minutes tonight and I pulled out the fan to see how to get to the igniter, and it turns out it's not too hard.
Just a couple of screws. Far easier than putting in a new block on a 1980-something Olds Cutlass Ciera.
I was thinking maybe there is a exposed wire or something on the igniter, but it looks alright. A little dirty.
I'll buy a replacement and try that.
In the meantime I'll try the tests John mentioned.
That's some sound advice.
It's either the igniter. Or it's the controller. I think I can rule out the auger!
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Both the auger and fan have shaded pole motors that usually but not always get tight in the bushings and end up slowing down. That is easily detected by sound and performance. If the coils in these motors
burn and short, the motors won't turn. You will know straight away as the burnt motor won't function. It most likely will trip a breaker/burn a fuse @ start up. The cause of these burnt out motors has been
caused by a low voltage leak thru the controller with the unit off and remaining plugged in. This is not your case.
The GFIC is triggered by an imbalance of the outgoing current (hot/black wire) vs the returning current (neutral/ white wire). This imbalance is miniscule ~ 5 mA..That translates into a small conductor path
such as dust, corrosion, anything that can bleed of a small of current to generate this imbalance.
You are on the right track. Keep going.
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Both the auger and fan have shaded pole motors that usually but not always get tight in the bushings and end up slowing down. That is easily detected by sound and performance. If the coils in these motors
burn and short, the motors won't turn. You will know straight away as the burnt motor won't function. It most likely will trip a breaker/burn a fuse @ start up. The cause of these burnt out motors has been
caused by a low voltage leak thru the controller with the unit off and remaining plugged in. This is not your case.
The GFIC is triggered by an imbalance of the outgoing current (hot/black wire) vs the returning current (neutral/ white wire). This imbalance is miniscule ~ 5 mA..That translates into a small conductor path
such as dust, corrosion, anything that can bleed of a small of current to generate this imbalance.
You are on the right track. Keep going.
Appreciate the help.
I've read other places that igniters going bad on other makes of grills have lead to GFCI trips. Igniters were still working but possibly getting close to failure.
My replacement igniter is ordered and I'll have to get that installed in the next week or so. I am strongly hopeful that will resolve the issue.
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As I mentioned above, if the GFIC fails after the igniter has its power removed, it's unlikely that a new igniter will solve your problem. However, I've worked with electronics/electrical enough (60+ years) to know that anything is possible. :-\
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Sorry, GFCI - Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter
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MN-Smoker, since FC is out of business, where are you ordering your replacement from?
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It's just a standard igniter. You can get them off Amazon
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MN-Smoker, since FC is out of business, where are you ordering your replacement from?
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For a generic replacement, you will need to know: Length, Diameter and Wattage. The wiring /plug may need to be modified to fit..There lots of igniters out there. Ebay is an other source. Direct Igniter
an other that should be able to supply a direct replacement. If you know the dimensions you can crosscheck back to a manufacturer.. Not sure but it could be the same as Traeger igniter.
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MN-Smoker, since FC is out of business, where are you ordering your replacement from?
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For a generic replacement, you will need to know: Length, Diameter and Wattage. The wiring /plug may need to be modified to fit..There lots of igniters out there. Ebay is an other source. Direct Igniter
an other that should be able to supply a direct replacement. If you know the dimensions you can crosscheck back to a manufacturer.. Not sure but it could be the same as Traeger igniter.
Remembering the original design, it appeared that FireCraft 'drew inspiration' from the Louisiana Grills (Danson) grills.
My opinion - based on the appearance of FireCrafts firepit and flame diffuser/drip tray, add to that (I believe) FireCraft used to be a major retailer for Lousiana Grills/Country Smoker(Dansons) and Traeger before they came up with their in house grill.
They may have used the LG(Dansons) igniter as FireCrafts fire box design closely resembles that of the LG(Dansons) unit.
It will interesting to hear what was actually the issue with this malfunctioning grill.
Chewing on popcorn here awaiting the final results.............. :bbq:
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Hi all!
I ordered a replacement igniter. Finding one was harder than I thought it would be.
Measured the old which was about 5" and I went with this one.
DISCLAIMER: I can't verify that this is the correct one, it's just the one I went with and if your property burns down from using it, I'm not going to be held liable! :-)
"Louisiana Grill Pellet Igniter Cartridge for Series and County Smokers Replaces 50114"
Since my meter was showing about 300 watts, I figured a 300 watt igniter was probably the right choice.
The igniters have two different slip connectors on the old and this one only has a single. I had to do some light electrical work to connect it to the slip connectors on the old board. I re-used the old by splicing the wires.
I just got done running a test, and she fired up and stayed running up to 360 degrees. I shut her off at that point since I didn't have anything ready to cook.
Lessons learned:
- Anything GFCI related, bad igniter seems to be common with any make or model from my research.
- Even if your igniter is "working" it doesn't mean it's not part of the problem.
- Igniters are cheaper than controller boards.
- If I have to get a replacement controller board, I think Blaz'n or Rec Tec would be the people to inquire with.
- This forum has great people who help provide some great support.
Hopefully I'm set for another 1,000 uses or so.
Thanks again for the help and hopefully I won't be posting any bad updates in here in the next few weeks.
Stay warm!
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Thanks for keeping us updated. Glad it worked for you!
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I just replaced my ignitor because it was tripping the GFCI. I managed to get a Traeger ignitor in there temporarily, but it definitely isn't the right one. Too short and too low wattage. The Louisiana grill one is the right length but the leads are too short and it looks like they would end in an awkward location to connect. I found one for an Englander pellet stove that is 4.5 inches, 300 watts, longer leads, and the right connectors. Hopefully next week I'll get a chance to put it in.
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Here is the Englander ignitor compared to the original. I thought the collar would come completely off, but apparently not. I don't think it will be a problem but I'll let you know after I try to put it in. By the way, I had to drill out the screw that holds the ignitor assembly in place. Heat does bad things to screws.
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Here is the Englander ignitor compared to the original. I thought the collar would come completely off, but apparently not. I don't think it will be a problem but I'll let you know after I try to put it in. By the way, I had to drill out the screw that holds the ignitor assembly in place. Heat does bad things to screws.
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I had to drill out one of the two screws that held my igniter rod on my Memphis Elite in the firepot assembly today when replacing the rod.
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I just replaced my ignitor because it was tripping the GFCI. I managed to get a Traeger ignitor in there temporarily, but it definitely isn't the right one. Too short and too low wattage. The Louisiana grill one is the right length but the leads are too short and it looks like they would end in an awkward location to connect. I found one for an Englander pellet stove that is 4.5 inches, 300 watts, longer leads, and the right connectors. Hopefully next week I'll get a chance to put it in.
This is timely information for me. My Firecraft starting throwing the GFCI last night. Repeatedly. I opened the side door to access the back of the controller and unplugged the connector to the igniter. No more trouble with the GFCI. I'll look into buying one from Englander. Thanks for already going down this path for me!
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I just replaced my ignitor because it was tripping the GFCI. I managed to get a Traeger ignitor in there temporarily, but it definitely isn't the right one. Too short and too low wattage. The Louisiana grill one is the right length but the leads are too short and it looks like they would end in an awkward location to connect. I found one for an Englander pellet stove that is 4.5 inches, 300 watts, longer leads, and the right connectors. Hopefully next week I'll get a chance to put it in.
This is timely information for me. My Firecraft starting throwing the GFCI last night. Repeatedly. I opened the side door to access the back of the controller and unplugged the connector to the igniter. No more trouble with the GFCI. I'll look into buying one from Englander. Thanks for already going down this path for me!
You may want to measure the length + diameter of your igniter and compare it to others, noting wattage. The wiring/connectors may require minor mods...Search, pellet grill igniters/shopping..
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One thing to note when replacing the ignitor, when you take apart the assembly, do it over a table. There are three ceramic rods that hold the ignitor in place. They fall out when you loosen the screws. If they fall on floor they can break.
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I think my ignitor may be going bad. Is this the Englander PU-CHA?
Tried cooking a pork butt today and experienced a weird problem. Basically, the pellets are taking too long to ignite. So what happens is the feeder keeps putting out pellets, then the grill smokes like crazy, then it all ignites and the temp spikes. I checked inside the firebox and only the very end of the rod was glowing red. Normally the whole thing should be red hot, right? At least, that's been my experience in the past.
Does that seem like I just need to replace the ignitor? Thanks!
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Did a little troubleshooting. The fan and augur seem to be working fine. The ignitor rod doesn't seem to be heating up all the way. Is that possible? I attached a picture - it's like the end part of it isn't getting hot enough. Hoping that's the case so I can just replace the ignitor and be back in business...
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If I recall correctly, the end of the igniter doesn't get as hot as the center portion . The heating element itself, the electrical conductor, does not go all the way to the end, plus there is more
shielding (surface area)@ the end to dissipate the heat. It's the air movement that carries the superheated air from the igniter to the pellets.. As an example, the Memphis igniter doesn't protrude into the fire
box at all. It was done that way to extend igniter life. Firecraft was very close in copying the Memphis system, right down to the 3 ceramic iso rods.except they did allowed the igniter to extend into the fire
box. My guess is they went that way as they were probably concerned with infringement rights.
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It could also be that the pellets got more humid due to the external weather factors which I have seen my grill take a little longer to start than I would have expected the last few weeks.
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This may be a dumb question, but does the ignitor only heat up when the grill starts?
There is definitely some issue going on. I've experienced it twice now. Maybe the controller is putting out too many pellets? It seems like new pellets take too long to light. It starts smoking like crazy...a TON of smoke...then a big woosh and they catch. Then the temp spikes 80-100 degrees.
The first time I was just grilling some hot dogs, so it only happened once. But I thought it was weird. Then a couple of days later, I vacuumed out everything well in preparation for smoking a pork butt. It started up fine and got up to temp (275), then started this weird issue after about 15-20 min. I tried switching to a new bag of pellets, but that didn't help. You can see the swings in the graph I included. Eventually, I just pulled the pork butt and finished it in the house oven.
I checked the fan and it seems to be running fine. I could hear it and feel it blowing air by the pellet box.
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Hello,
Does the temperature continue to stay very high, or does it ever settle back down to the set point?
Is this happening with the original FireCraft controller? I ask because I had to replace the controller in mine a while back, and I know other have replaced theirs as well. I replaced mine with a WiFi controller from RecTec. For a while the new controller was great, but recently I have had a lot of trouble with temperature control and the temperature goes very high (at least 100 above the set point), and then stays there for what could be several hours.
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Hello,
Does the temperature continue to stay very high, or does it ever settle back down to the set point?
Is this happening with the original FireCraft controller? I ask because I had to replace the controller in mine a while back, and I know other have replaced theirs as well. I replaced mine with a WiFi controller from RecTec. For a while the new controller was great, but recently I have had a lot of trouble with temperature control and the temperature goes very high (at least 100 above the set point), and then stays there for what could be several hours.
It's the original FireCraft controller. It does settle back down, but then repeats the same pattern. I actually have a RecTec controller that I bought as a backup but never installed.
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Just a follow up for anything interested. I purchased a new ignitor which was delivered today. Installed it and that fixed my problem. Ran the grill for about an hour and it held temps like normal. Glad that was an easy fix! :clap:
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Always nice to hear about a fix that works well!