Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: Michael_NW on December 12, 2017, 01:33:01 AM
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I took time this past Saturday to cook two pork butts, and when the time came to wrap I wrapped one in foil and the other in butcher paper. I did this because up until now I had never wrapped pork butt and had never been completely happy with the results. Though the meat had great flavor and bark it was also dryer than I thought it should be. Since I had just recently cooked brisket and wrapped in bp with great results, I wanted to see how wrapping in foil vs. bp would compare. I also felt I now had a dependable cooker to get consistent results. Here's how it went:
I started with two nearly identical pork butts I purchased from my local Winco Foods. Only .98/lb!
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Friday night I dry brined them both with Morton's Kosher Salt. I was going to brine them starting Friday morning but I was late for work, and so they only had the salt on for 12 hours and I wish it had been longer. The finished product needed salt, I thought.
Saturday morning, 6:00 am, out of the fridge, rubbed with altered Memphis Dust and into the MAK they went at 275 degrees, fat side up.
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At 1:00 pm, both butts had reached 160 IT, and though I wasn't happy with the amount of bark formation, I thought they would be stalling soon, so I wrapped them and back into the smoker they went, continuing at 275 degrees pit temp.
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I checked them again at 4:00 pm and both butts were lock-step at 193 IT. I should have hung around watched them closely, but I was installing a new kitchen faucet and had to run to ACE for a couple of parts. When I got back at 4:30, both butts were at 204 and I yanked them out, laid them side-by-side on a pastry sheet, and placed them in the oven (no heat) to rest for an hour. This is how they looked after I opened them up:
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I pulled the foil butt first. LOTS of moisture!! I just used the tongs to pull the muscles apart. I was not happy with the small amount of bark on this butt.
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Very, very moist and flavorful.
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Here is the pulled bp butt. Again, so much moisture! Just used the tongs. Better bark preservation, though I wished they had both had better bark. Lots of flavor.
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If anything, they were both overdone a smidgen. The meat was almost soggy and somewhat soft at first, but firmed up as it cooled.
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So, my take-aways:
I need to work on developing better bark. Maybe start at a lower pit temp for a longer time, then up the pit temp after I wrap.
I need to start my dry brine earlier to get the desired salt penetration.
I should watch the meat temps more closely after I wrap and remove from the pit sooner to allow for carryover so as to not over cook the pork.
I was unsure if a higher pit temp would render the fat properly, but it did. I'm trying to break out of the "225 degree pit for everything" mindset and experiment.
I definitely prefer wrapping, and wrapping with butcher paper over foil. Both allowed for faster cook times and steamed the meat well, but the bp preserved more bark.
All in all, a good cook for me. And one in which I took some risks (for me) and it paid off. I need to find the balance between pit temp, bark, and moisture, and this was a big step in that direction.
Questions? Comments?
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Keep doing what you did. I think the bark is overrated. The outside still probably had great flavor from the rub. Sometime I will sprinkle more rub on the meat after pulling and then mix it in. I prefer a moist pork shoulder like you delivered on that cook over one with bark.
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I've done em both ways too. Agree with you that the BP preserves a little more bark over foil.
As far as the 225* mindset, go with what works for you. For PP, I don't care about the bark as much as on a brisket.
It all gets mixed together anyway.
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Very interesting read and experiment. Based on the experience you got, do you think you would do this same cook again (with both options) and try and control your variables and see if results changed much?
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For better bark you might try molasses as a glue for your rub. Here is a close up of my last butt cook.
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Looks like you did a great job. I would vote for paper over foil. I have tried it with ribs but it is harder to work with for sealing.
Z
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All I know is it all looks :lick:
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Thanks for doing this and I have some BP ordered. I will not get it in time for the pork butt I am doing on Thursday, but I will have it to use on the brisket flat I will smoke for Christmas.
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Michael,
I wrap with foil.
I don't have much opinion about bark.
But I also have never brined with salt. Perhaps I need some instructions here on the significance of this proceedure.
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For better bark you might try molasses as a glue for your rub.
Z
+ 1. Molasses Glue for better bark (panned with foil)
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DK
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For better bark you might try molasses as a glue for your rub.
Z
+ 1. Molasses Glue for better bark (panned with foil)
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DK
:clap:
OK, molasses for me on my next butt. That one there, just a bit past dark red is a beauty. Nothing like pulling of a piece of bark that has some juicy meat and gooey fat attached. Now I'm hungry.
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They look identical...Great data, thank for your great contributions...
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I wrap brisket in BP with satisfying results, but for pork butt I don't wrap anymore, I inject about 12oz apple juice/ rub mixture then apply Oakridge comp rub and into the smoker at 230 till internal temp reaches 197 then FTC for atl least 2hr. Without wrapping I get some serious bark but when i FTC the temp rises to around 203 and softens the bark just a little. I like the results I get.
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Very interesting read and experiment. Based on the experience you got, do you think you would do this same cook again (with both options) and try and control your variables and see if results changed much?
I think so. I've read to be careful of changing too many variables all at once, so depending on the results it may take a few more cooks to solidify the method that works for me. But I must say, I've been missing the boat by not wrapping - it just seems to fit me and I'm pretty sure it will get me the final product I'm looking for.
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Keep doing what you did. I think the bark is overrated. The outside still probably had great flavor from the rub. Sometime I will sprinkle more rub on the meat after pulling and then mix it in. I prefer a moist pork shoulder like you delivered on that cook over one with bark.
You're not alone - for some people a good bark just isn't that important. For me, it's a texture thing as well as a flavor thing. I like to feel the contrasts in texture as I chew - within reason!
I didn't put this in the first posts, but I got over 2 cups of juice from the bottom of the 2 wraps combined. After it cooled in the fridge I removed the fat layer and now I've got just less than 2 cups of pork jello! Pure flavor! The sad thing is the pork is so juicy already I don't feel a need to add it back to the meat!
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I wrap brisket in BP with satisfying results, but for pork butt I don't wrap anymore, I inject about 12oz apple juice/ rub mixture then apply Oakridge comp rub and into the smoker at 230 till internal temp reaches 197 then FTC for atl least 2hr. Without wrapping I get some serious bark but when i FTC the temp rises to around 203 and softens the bark just a little. I like the results I get.
I have tried injecting, but for whatever reason the little man inside my head told me that injecting was not for me. It's hard for me to explain some things that are internal "feelings", but for whatever reason injecting didn't make the cut, probably because it was an extra step (but wrapping is also an extra step, right? go figure . . .). It sounds like your method works great and gives you moisture and bark. Your results speak for themselves. I will definitely be playing with the time-temp-wrap adjustable variables as I dial this in.
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Michael,
I wrap with foil.
I don't have much opinion about bark.
But I also have never brined with salt. Perhaps I need some instructions here on the significance of this proceedure.
Meathead gives his treatise on dry brining, including the science of it, on his site AmazingRibs. If you have trouble finding the article on his web site, drop me a pm and I'll send you a link.
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Michael,
I wrap with foil.
I don't have much opinion about bark.
But I also have never brined with salt. Perhaps I need some instructions here on the significance of this proceedure.
Meathead gives his treatise on dry brining, including the science of it, on his site AmazingRibs. If you have trouble finding the article on his web site, drop me a pm and I'll send you a link.
I always dry brine pork butts. I even score the fat cap to get salt to the meat. I also coat with maple syrup and then add my rub. I am a "low and slow" type smoker so I don't wrap in foil or bp either still get great pulled pork and good bark, and a great smoke ring! Love the color of the smoke ring and the bark.
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Michael, as far as injecting, because I don't wrap during the cook I feel the injected butts retain more moisture. One time I couldn't find my injector and went without and the pulled pork seamed dryer and the texture was different. Everyone has what works for them but I'm always trying to improve that's why I love this form you never know when you're going to see something and say I got to try that
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Michael, as far as injecting, because I don't wrap during the cook I feel the injected butts retain more moisture. One time I couldn't find my injector and went without and the pulled pork seamed dryer and the texture was different. Everyone has what works for them but I'm always trying to improve that's why I love this form you never know when you're going to see something and say I got to try that
Exactly, Timbo! I think for you and me, we both like our pulled pork with good bark and plenty of moisture. And I know there is more than one way of arriving at that end. You inject - I wrap - and in the end we're both happy as we chomp down on the fruits of our efforts, because we found a way to retain that moisture. Oh, and our smokers had a hand in it, too . . . 8)
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Michael,
I wrap with foil.
I don't have much opinion about bark.
But I also have never brined with salt. Perhaps I need some instructions here on the significance of this proceedure.
Meathead gives his treatise on dry brining, including the science of it, on his site AmazingRibs. If you have trouble finding the article on his web site, drop me a pm and I'll send you a link.
I always dry brine pork butts. I even score the fat cap to get salt to the meat. I also coat with maple syrup and then add my rub. I am a "low and slow" type smoker so I don't wrap in foil or bp either still get great pulled pork and good bark, and a great smoke ring! Love the color of the smoke ring and the bark.
You do have great color, there. I can just imagine the bark on those! I didn't think of scoring the fat cap; I may try that. Can you taste any of the maple syrup when it's pulled?
DK117 and ZCZ use molasses on theirs and that pic is amazing.
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For better bark you might try molasses as a glue for your rub. Here is a close up of my last butt cook.
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Looks like you did a great job. I would vote for paper over foil. I have tried it with ribs but it is harder to work with for sealing.
Z
Thanks, ZCZ. I'm curious if you can taste any molasses after you've pulled the pork? If so, how strong is it?
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Great info and thanks for the research Michael! I have always foiled in a pan with apple juice. Next time I think I am going to try just Butcher paper. DId you put the butcher paper one in a pan as well to contain juices?
Rendering juices for me is a big thing, with only 3 people in the house there are always left overs. Those get Vac sealed, and the rendered juices are used in the bottom of the vacseal bag to maintain moisture as usually the PP has dried a bit during the buffet. A few OZ of juices, then add a meal sized portion of PP (1-1.5# usually) then vacseal and it pulls the juices thru the meat. Then into the freezer. 5-10min in a Pot of boiling water and you have fresh pp for dinner on those late work nights!
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Great info and thanks for the research Michael! I have always foiled in a pan with apple juice. Next time I think I am going to try just Butcher paper. DId you put the butcher paper one in a pan as well to contain juices?
Rendering juices for me is a big thing, with only 3 people in the house there are always left overs. Those get Vac sealed, and the rendered juices are used in the bottom of the vacseal bag to maintain moisture as usually the PP has dried a bit during the buffet. A few OZ of juices, then add a meal sized portion of PP (1-1.5# usually) then vacseal and it pulls the juices thru the meat. Then into the freezer. 5-10min in a Pot of boiling water and you have fresh pp for dinner on those late work nights!
Hey lamrith! :cool: I did not put the bp butt in a pan, but wrapped it up just like the foil. I had no idea how much juice would be retained by the bp, or if the bp would seal up tight enough to provide a good environment for steaming - hence the trial! But the paper held up great, and even when the butts were resting on the pastry sheet there was minimal leakage through the paper, almost none at all. As for whether the bp would seal up sufficiently . . . the results speak for themselves. I was going to spritz with apple cider vinegar but just didn't think of it at the time, and I really didn't need it at all.
I tend to give away about half of what I cook to family, friends, or co-workers (my co-workers happily volunteered to be guinea pigs). So by the time I portion out the meat for meals for the upcoming week I usually only have enough meat left over for one vacseal! The pork jello has already been used up: some of it was diluted by half and used to make rice, and the rest with some red wine went into a quick sauce for pasta.