Pellet Fan
Pit Talk -- Comments and Questions Regarding These Pellet Pits => Firecraft => Topic started by: jgrayson on May 16, 2020, 12:32:11 PM
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Hello,
This subject came up in another thread. I would prefer to put these details into their own thread. Dclord provided a good suggestion for the replacement part since FireCraft doesn’t exist anymore. He compared several igniters and found that one was Englander was long enough, the proper strength, and had wires long enough to reach the controller. I bought a new one for less than $20, shipping included.
I took the inside of the smoker apart, and vacuumed out the ashes. This is what the firebox looks like.
Zooming in you can see the first screw to remove.
Next I removed the side panel on the pellet hopper. This is the access to the controller and most of the functional parts of the unit. Notice that you can see all the way through to the firebox where I placed a piece of yellow paper in the second picture.
I didn’t take a picture of these, but if you look under the pellet hopper there are two screws, side by side. These two also hold the igniter in place. Remove those and now disconnect the two wires that come from the igniter. One goes to the controller, and the other goes to a wire connector joining this wire to another wire. I didn’t trace this connection, but I believe it goes to the controller. The wires are both white so I don’t know if it makes any difference later when I went to connect the wires from the new igniter.
Next, I removed the old igniter from the metal housing it’s installed in. There are two screws that hold this housing closed. These were tough to unscrew and dclord mentioned having to drill his out. I persevered and removed the two screws. Be careful here. There are 3 ceramic spacers in the housing. They are prone to being broken if dropped a great distance.
The Englander igniter comes with a collar attached. I loosened the set screw and removed this. I don’t know if this was necessary. The Englander igniter also has a metal washer welded in place next to the original location of the metal collar. I did not attempt to remove the metal washer. This is why I don’t know if the collar needed to be removed. Anyway, I put the new igniter into the bottom half of the igniter housing and experimented with several combinations for the ceramic spacers. In the next picture you can see how I placed them. Two are in solidly, but the third is loose enough to slide in and out. I kept all three together in case I need them for a future repair. I put the two screws back to hold the igniter housing closed, and put the igniter housing back into the firebox.
Then I ran the wires through the firebox and back to the controller. I used my fish wire to help them through a rubber port at the top/back of the firebox. I attached the wires to the empty connectors. Again, both wires are white, so I don’t know if it makes a difference which one gets connected to the igniter connector on the controller, or the other wire connector. Finally, I just had to put all of the screws back.
I started with the screws to attach the igniter to the smoker. One screw in the firebox first. This made it easier to lineup the other two screws under the pellet hopper. I used an Allen Key to pull the back of the igniter into position so that I could get the first screw into it. The second screw under here was much easier after getting the first one in.
Now I tested the startup. I plugged it back in to power. Sure enough, the smoker fed pellets and the igniter started the fire. I let it run for about 20 minutes to verify that it wouldn’t throw the GFCI outlet. Then I shut it down again to close the side panel and put all of the parts back into the cooking area.
It was an easy repair. I had replaced two or three Traeger igniters in the past, and this was easier to complete.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Some comments if I may. The igniter wires, both white in colour, are not polar sensitive. That means it doesn't matter how the connect.
The 3 ceramic rods should be spaced equally around the igniter..Same setup as the Memphis pits. Their purpose is to insulate the igniter from grounding if a circuit to ground develops in the igniter. This circuit
to ground would cause the GFIC to trip. Many igniters remain functional after this slight deviation of current but are rendered unserviceable due to a tripping GFIC.
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Back to the 3 ceramic rods. If originally their positioning was as shown, their function would have been redundant, as they are now. If that was the case, the igniter, shorting to ground was the cause of the
tripping GFIC. Had the 3 rods had been spaced evenly around the igniter so as to insulate it, you wouldn't have had the problem. So - If you feel up to it, reposition the rods evenly around the igniter so that it
is isolated from the surrounding metal thus eliminating future GFIC trips due to igniter grounding.
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The Memphis ignitor is the same design. The ceramic pieces should be in a triangle with two at the bottom left and right and the third in the center on top of the rod. That is how they were before I took the assembly apart to remove the old rod, and that is how I replaced them when I installed the new rod. I will admit it is a bit of a challenge to space them that way. It was very clear in the instructions from Memphis how the ceramic was supposed to be placed within the rod assembly.
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Hello,
Thanks for the information on the ceramic rods. Unfortunately, the new igniter didn't come with instructions, but it if did those instructions would have focused on a unit from another manufacturer.
When I loosened the screws on the original igniter housing I wasn't careful and the ceramic rods tumbled out. I didn't think to look at their positions before removing those two screws. I tried several combinations for placement that would allow the three rods and the igniter to be enclosed in the igniter housing. I tried to space them as a triangle, but the housing would not close. I think there is a very small size difference between this Englander igniter and the original one from FireCraft.
So far I have cooked on it twice since I completed this repair and it has worked well. If it does give me trouble I will reposition those ceramic rods to see if their placement is leading to trouble.
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It was very challenging to get those ceramic pieces in a triangle location when re-assembling the rod assembly with the new igniter on the Memphis.
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Just to share info, this is the igniter I purchaed.
Louisiana Grill Pellet Igniter Cartridge for Series and County Smokers Replaces 50114
It's been working fine.
Had to re-do the endings to connect but it's worked.
And yes, put the insulating rods in a triangular form.
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Good to hear. That info may very well help someone else. Keep enjoying that pit!
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Sometimes I wonder why they shut things down at Firecraft.
It's been a very solid and well designed grill.
A second edition could have been an excellent machine.
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As the Q-450 appears to have been a mirror image of the Sawtooth Grill, but in stainless, they may have been forced to stop selling them.
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As the Q-450 appears to have been a mirror image of the Sawtooth Grill, but in stainless, they may have been forced to stop selling them.
Could be the case.
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Hello,
Just a quick update on the igniter I replaced back in May.
My FireCraft began to through the GFCI again, so I ordered another new igniter from Englander. I installed this one with the ceramic rods spaced triangularly around the new igniter as Canadian John and Bar-B-Lew suggested. I have used my FireCraft a few times now without problem, so hopefully I will keep this igniter installed for more than 5 months.
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I hope so too. The equal spacing of the ceramic rods insulate the igniter from grounding out should the electrified igniter internals make contact with the casing generating a path to ground for the electricity to
flow.
This ever so slight deviation in electrical flow is picked up + acted upon by the GFIC.. This type of failure is a common one often brought on by dampness. By eliminating the path to ground thru the use of the
properly installed ceramic rods allows the otherwise bad igniter to keep doing its job until such a time it burns out (open circuit).
Thanks for the update. It's most meaningful.
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Hello,
Just a quick update on the igniter I replaced back in May.
My FireCraft began to through the GFCI again, so I ordered another new igniter from Englander. I installed this one with the ceramic rods spaced triangularly around the new igniter as Canadian John and Bar-B-Lew suggested. I have used my FireCraft a few times now without problem, so hopefully I will keep this igniter installed for more than 5 months.
Hello,
I'm back to having trouble with the igniter again. The FireCraft has been blowing the GFCI outlet again. It blows the GFCI every few minutes. If I disconnect the igniter, it runs though the cook with no problems.
I have now installed two Englander igniters and both have only lasted 2 - 3 months. Not a good track record. Has anybody tried another brand? Thankfully it's not a difficult repair, but I would like to get some more time between repairs.
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You could go the old fashioned route and remove the igniter start manually.
Throw a handful of pellets in the bottom of the firepot. Start them on fire manually. Once the fire gets raging, turn on the smoker. If you do it before, it may blow out your small fire. I know from experience.
Downside is you have to pull out everything in the grill to startup your grill every time. Upside is that you get to vacuum it before you start up and maybe not have any issues once you get the fire and the controller blowing air.
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One last thought. Is it possible the igniter stays activated, that is stays on. Never turns off. A fast + easy test would be to use a power consumption meter such as this one.
https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=kilowatt+meter&qid=1604342076&sr=8-6https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=kilowatt+meter&qid=1604342076&sr=8-6
The initial draw @ start-up should be ~ 300 to 400 Watts ( fan, auger + igniter). Then after ~ 3 - 4 Min; drop to under 100 Watts( fan + auger, if called for) could be as low as 30 Watts( fan only).
Without a power consumption meter, use a test light or a voltmeter to check for power in the igniter circuit. Should be energized @ start-up then drop to "0" or light out after ~ 3 - 4 Min.
If the igniter becomes deactivated and stays that way after start-up, then the igniter itself becomes suspect.
I just can't comment on Englander igniter reliability. I do know there are some less reliable igniters. A few years back igniter failure was very common in most pits. It is possible Englander bought several
rejected or low quality igniters to sell @ a low $, or just got a bad batch.
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You could go the old fashioned route and remove the igniter start manually.
Throw a handful of pellets in the bottom of the firepot. Start them on fire manually. Once the fire gets raging, turn on the smoker. If you do it before, it may blow out your small fire. I know from experience.
Downside is you have to pull out everything in the grill to startup your grill every time. Upside is that you get to vacuum it before you start up and maybe not have any issues once you get the fire and the controller blowing air.
My youngest son has been doing that for years on his GridIron.
Maybe I should buy him an igniter for Christmas. ;D
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Any chance of replacing the ignitor with a ceramic version?
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Any chance of replacing the ignitor with a ceramic version?
I wouldn't see why not, you may need to get a burn pot to go with it as some attach differently.