Pellet Fan
Pit Talk -- Comments and Questions Regarding These Pellet Pits => Traeger => Topic started by: pberry3452 on August 04, 2018, 07:22:33 PM
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I've been the proud owner of a Traeger Lil' Tex Elite for six years now after purchasing it on a whim during a Costco roadshow. I had been listening to my brother-in-law extol the virtues of a pellet grill during the last couple of family reunions so I had been thinking about acquiring one for awhile, however, I hadn't done any research on the different manufacturers and buying on an impulse is typically not my style. Therefore my youngest son, who was with me at the time, thought for sure I had taken that Traeger sales pitch, hook, line, and sinker! Per the guidance of that very same salesman, the first thing I did after assembly was to test it with the Traeger Chicken Challenge. As soon as my son took his first bite of that succulent roast chicken covered with Traeger's Chicken Rub (the old rub recipe from back then and not the new one they reformulated last year, but don't get me started...), he was sold and thought it was the best purchase I ever made and has been the happy consumer of smoked meat of every cut and variety ever since!
Not long after I found out that my brother-in-law's pellet grill was a Green Mountain with built-in WiFi and meat probe, so I realized I had probably made a bit of a hasty purchase. Don't get me wrong, the Lil' Tex has served me well over the years, however, I couldn't help but be a little envious of the simplicity of WiFi control. The digital controller that came with my Traeger seemed to do the job well enough and once I learned about setting the P value I no longer experienced flame-out at low temp settings as I did during that first year. However, the temperature could swing as much as +/- 25 deg and I could never get the highest temp to more than around 400 deg so as I read more about PID controllers I continued to think about an eventual upgrade.
When Traeger came out with the Timberline series I was hoping they might offer a controller upgrade for models like the Lil' Tex, however, as suspected they'd prefer that you simply purchase a whole new grill. Consequently, I started researching potential PID controller options for a do-it-yourself mod to the Lil' Tex and found that Rec Tec was offering their latest PID controller, the RT-WFCON, for sale at a very reasonable price. This was the week of July 4th last month and they had just started selling these the week before in small production batches which would be placed on their web site each Wednesday at 12 noon EDT and would sell out in minutes. I missed the chance to order one that Wednesday but was one of the lucky few to make the purchase the following week. I've got to hand it to Rec Tec fulfillment however, they took my order online at 9 AM PDT on Wednesday, shipped the unit by 10:30 AM PDT the same day, and it arrived that Friday and in my hands in only two days!
Thinking this might only be a temporary upgrade and that I may want to put back the old digital controller if I were to use this Rec Tec controller in a different application, my goal for this mod was to have no permanent changes to the Lil' Tex. Therefore, I disassembled the Traeger digital controller to determine that they had used Molex, 2-circuit, free hanging connectors w/14-20 AWG .093" pins which I was able to find on Amazon for Saturday delivery. I also made a trip to our local Fry's to purchase a black anodized aluminum project box big enough to house the Rec Tec controller and fit over the rectangular cut out where the original Traeger controller was mounted. While I was there I also picked up 14 AWG stranded wire of various colors and Molex quick connect mating connectors for the board mounted tabs of the Rec Tec controller. I was able to make the necessary cutouts of the aluminum project box using a drill press and mounted the box to the Traeger pellet hopper using the same two digital controller mounting holes and the original mounting screws. Using the Molex connectors and wire I assembled a wiring harness which connected the new Rec Tec controller to the AC power, the auger motor, the fan motor, and the grill temperature probe of the Lil' Tex. For some reason the Traeger controller used a screw terminal block for the temperature probe therefore I couldn't use the Molex 2-circuit connectors as I did everywhere else. Instead I used a DC power barrel jack/plug pair that you typically see used in CCTV installations to maintain the temporary connection philosophy I used throughout. The project box I selected had two halves, each in an extruded U shape, that fit together at the top of the U with a tongue and groove and which are held in place with a screw on each corner of two side plates covering the ends. This made it ideal since I could mount the back half to the Traeger hopper, assemble the Rec Tec controller into to the front half, connect the wiring harness between the Rec Tec and the Traeger, and close it all up by securing the two side plates. A single complete box with open ends would have made assembly much more difficult. Once it was all assembled I plugged it in and it worked like a charm, from component order to completion in four days!
Rec Tec provides a free app for use with the RT-WFCON controller which gives you complete control over your grill. WiFi setup was easy but be aware that it will only use your local 2.4 GHz WiFi signal for improved range performance. With the app you can control your grill from anywhere inside and outside of your house using either WiFi or cellular connectivity. The app also provides a temperature charting screen which plots the set temp, measured grill temp, and both measured probe temps for detailed historical tracking of your cooking. And the accuracy of the PID controller is tremendous! I've experienced only +/- 1 to 2 degree variance once the set temp is reached. You'll also notice that it uses less pellets since it only consumes what is required to maintain the set temp. Where before I was never able to get above 400 deg with the old controller, I'm now able to reach and hold 500 deg without a problem.
After I purchased my Rec Tec controller they changed their online sales approach from where you had to log on to their web site exactly at 12 noon EDT each Wednesday to see if you can add one to your cart and become a lucky recipient that week, to where you can now order a controller at any time and just wait until stock becomes available. This is a much more logical and fair approach but it means that you just have to wait a lot longer to get one. As I write this the lead time for shipment is about 10 weeks after order. The web site claims that these controllers are currently on sale for $99, $100 off the MSRP. I strongly feel that it was money well spent because it has rejuvenated my Lil' Tex by bringing it into the 21st century of pellet grill performance.
(http://[attach=1,msg36108][/attach])
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Hope it works well for you!
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great write up. Interesting that it works so well. I have looked at replacement controllers for my Camp Chef SE. It does not even have a readout. your install looks clean.
Did it come with a probe?. I don't have one on my controller, another reason to upgrade.
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Yes, it came with two probes.
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Well done - both the write-up and the work! The pit performance change is outstanding. Just what you wanted I assume.
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Me again. After posting I was wondering how the high temperature went from 400º to 500º. Was the auger motor RPM raised and/or the auger restrictor removed? The burn pot hole configuration upsized
from 7 to 9? Why I wonder is in its original configuration, on "HIGH", the auger motor duty cycle is 100%. Am I missing something?
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Oh, I would also like to say it is nice to see someone who cleans their pit like me...
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Canadian John - That's a fair question and one I don't think I can answer other than to speculate. I made no modifications to the Traeger other than swapping out the controller, everything else is identical. On the Traeger FAQ web site they state that the grill is designed to operate in the range of 400º to 450º on the High setting, but your point is that if the auger is running continuously then why would it reach a higher temperature with the Rec Tec controller? Perhaps the Traeger digital controller actually limits the upper temperature for safety and doesn't run the auger continuously once it reaches a certain point. Unfortunately, I can no longer test that theory since the mod is complete and I don't plan to put that old controller back, however, maybe someone else on this site with a more in-depth understanding of the Traeger digital controller can shed some light on this dilemma.
Bentley - You're supposed to clean your pit?
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Canadian John - That's a fair question and one I don't think I can answer other than to speculate. I made no modifications to the Traeger other than swapping out the controller, everything else is identical. On the Traeger FAQ web site they state that the grill is designed to operate in the range of 400º to 450º on the High setting, but your point is that if the auger is running continuously then why would it reach a higher temperature with the Rec Tec controller? Perhaps the Traeger digital controller actually limits the upper temperature for safety and doesn't run the auger continuously once it reaches a certain point. Unfortunately, I can no longer test that theory since the mod is complete and I don't plan to put that old controller back, however, maybe someone else on this site with a more in-depth understanding of the Traeger digital controller can shed some light on this dilemma.
Bentley - You're supposed to clean your pit?
All I can say is, that the auger in my Lil' Tex ran nonstop on high. I watched many times using a mirror. At one point I had a pilot light temporarily wired into the auger circuit (made up a harness using Molex connectors) to monitor motor operation. I am still curious as to the higher," high" temperature..There has to be an answer.
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Maybe I just never waited long enough, but I never saw it get any hotter than the low 400s. What was the max temp you achieved with your Lil' Tex?
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Under IDEAL conditions, just over 400º. Remembering a very long wait to get to 405º on the dome thermometer and the control. The both read about the same once the pit was stabilized. That was no wind and over 80º. That is going by memory. I had my Traeger for 5 years and gave it to my daughter over a year ago. All my records went with it.
Back to your pit and the 500º high temperature. Was the 500º temp verified using a digital thermometer at the grate? I remain stumped as to the 100º higher temperature with the Rec Tec controller being the only variable.
As far as the Traeger controller limiting the top temperature goes and I could be wrong, there is a high temp cut off set at a ridiculously high temperature., something like 600º.
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it can't change the RPM of the motor that is in the transmission on the end of the motor. I had thought about buying one and putting on my pit boss but then I give up the 150° smoke temps, I would also wonder if the RTD is the same resistance or if one would be better of buying the Rec Tec RTD for another 20 bucks, which is what I was going to do.
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The night I completed the upgrade I set the temp to 500° to test and I think it took about an hour or more to reach it. To be honest, I actually dozed off while it was heating and woke to it at 500°. The grill temp probe claiming 500° is the same one that came with the Traeger which has never been cleaned or modified and stands upright on the left side of the pit. As I said, I only changed the controller, nothing else.
I don't know, maybe I dreamt the whole thing. In any case I'll run another test and be a little more scientific this time. I'll place the two meat probes in the grill as well as a cross check and report back with the results.
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It was from Context Engineering - model 6016H-8.5B with dimensions 8.5" L x 6.144" W x 3.090" H which I purchased at Fry's
https://www.frys.com/product/2090841?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG (https://www.frys.com/product/2090841?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)
This was over sized for the new controller but necessary to cover the cutout left after removing the old controller.
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I may try this on a Camp Chef DLX. What was the manufacturer and dimensions of the project box you used? Thanks.
I will be watching, let us know if you try it. I have an SE and it doesn't even have a digital readout.
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I believe the controller is the same size. I have seen where people have put in the DLX controller to replace the SE controller.
I have not made that change. If Camp Chef were to come out with an affordable WIFI controller, then I agree that would be the best option.
I will wait and watch.
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I do miss have a Fry's that is close, for those that have never been in one, that is one serious electronics store!
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Well, I've had a chance to conduct some testing on the modified Lil' Tex over the past couple of days and the results are inconclusive....
Bottom Line Up Front: I have not been able to repeat reaching a set temperature of 500º but I've come close. Reaching 450º is a sure thing unless the controller starts acting up.
Maybe I did dream it, but I remember waking up to the Traeger bellowing smoke as it burned all the residual drippings at such a high heat so I got up to turn it off and noticed it had reached 500º. This is what I was alluding to in my initial post. To test this again I thought I would walk it through two steps of 450º and 475º before trying to reach 500º. In an attempt to verify the temperature I placed the two meat probes on the grate inside while running this test. The first set point of 450º was reached in 47 minutes as shown by the app screen shots below.
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The strange part is that the probes measured much higher temperatures of 482º and 507º. Noting this anomaly but pressing ahead, I then adjusted the set point to 475º which was reached in another 14 minutes.
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Again with the probes at much higher temperatures of 505º and 530º. Still undaunted, I adjusted the set point to 500º for the final step of the test. This is where things became a little strange. After continuing an initial ramp up to the next set point the Rec Tec controller began to struggle. It reached a high temperature of 488º but then began to drop down in temperature. Around this time the app began to display an error code when selecting the Temperature Chart display. The last charts I could capture are shown before the error occurred after which I terminated the test without reaching 500º.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Two puzzling results from this first test are 1) Why do the meat probes measure a much higher temperature? and 2) What conditions cause the controller to no longer display the Temperature Chart? I sent a message to Rec Tec about the error state of the app through a "Comments/Recommendations" messaging system on their web site (they don't have a way to reach them for support help, at least without calling, which I haven't done yet mainly because I don't want to tiptoe around the fact that I'm using their controller on a Traeger) but haven't received a reply yet. Therefore, I thought I would address problem 1) the next day by re-calibrating the temp probes again. As shown below I went through the ice water calibration and hung the meat probes from the top of the grill. The Rec Tec Controller has a calibration mode that displays all three temps and you can set offsets +/- 25 to calibrate. After the ice water cal I let the meat probes stabilize to ambient and then I adjusted the "Actual" pit probe to the same temperature of 77º. Another oddity is that the pit probe doesn't display the adjusted temp while in the calibration screen but does correctly display once the pit is turned on. However, at the same time the meat probes display a higher temperature as soon as the grill is turned on. At this point I'm beginning to suspect that the new Rec Tec controller still needs some fine tuning and maybe my query will provide some enlightenment on their perceived state of the controller software. Regardless, I let it run to see if it could reach 500º today but to no avail, it basically leveled off at about 366º and wouldn't progress any higher while the meat probes leveled off at 501º and 504º
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Now I began wondering if the Rec Tec controller used the meat probes as additional feedback in the PID algorithm to keep the pit stable if the food is already above the set temperature. Therefore I tried pulling out the probe lines at the controller to see if it would continue ramping up the pit temp without that feedback but the temp remained around 366º. Maybe once that trigger threshold is met it doesn't reset if the meat probes drop out, so I decided to shut it down and let it cool off. After a few hours I started the grill again with a set point of 500º but this time without the meat probes connected. It reached about 429º before it began to falter and the app error began occurring again.
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The next day I was smoking some burgers so I set it for 450º which it reach in 54 minutes, a little longer than the previous time but it was a little windy that day.
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After the burgers were done I thought I would let it try to reach 500º again but the app began faulting and the temperature was erratic, almost as if there is some problem in the feedback loop parameters of the PID algorithm.
At this point I think I need to give up on the claim that it can achieve 500º but 450º seems pretty repeatable or even higher as long as the controller doesn't act up. This product is pretty new so maybe Rec Tec will come out with a software update that will correct these issues.
I will say that for most normal cooks it works very well. Since I've made this upgrade to the Traeger I've cooked pulled pork twice, brisket, whole chicken, hamburgers multiple times, steaks a couple times, a bacon weave fatty, and currently cooking beef short ribs, low and slow at 225º and it is working like a champ. The WiFi remote control is so convenient! I still am very happy with the mod and believe the cost of the new Rec Tec controller is well worth it.
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Well done my friend! Some questions/comets if I may... I can't read the probe locations in your photos. "A" is the lower reading probe and to me should be the one on the left as Traegers left side runs cooler. Was "A" probe on the left? The RTD is located left and high and should provide lower temperature feedback to the controller than the grate probes.. For the display to read the same as the probes they must all be located in the same location. However "grate temperature" is what it's all about..
I would have to side w/ you re the controller. There has to be something that backs off the auger motor at the high end..It might be interesting it install a temporary pilot light in the auger motor circuit to monitor the motors function. Just make up a harness using the Molex connectors so it can be removed when done.
Thanks for the excellent feedback. I am as curious as you as to what Rec Tec has to say..
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Yes, Probe A is on the left side of the grill and Probe B is on the right. You should be able to click on the photos to enlarge them (you may have to use the slider at the bottom of my post to see the right side of the exploded photo).
I would agree that grate temperature would be higher and that is the reason I changed the probe location during the second test as shown in the photo where they are hanging off the top of the grill cover. What is also interesting is that during the first test the meat probe temps ranged from 30º to 55º higher than the RTD but during the second test they were up to 138º higher than the RTD. Not what I would expect.
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Most interesting.. I got the photos enlarged. Thanks.
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I wasn't dreaming...500º is achievable and repeatable with the new RecTec controller and the old Traeger Lil' Tex!
I finally figured out my issue and as usual, once you know the answer, it is blatantly obvious - RTD CALIBRATION!
I foolishly assumed that I could calibrate the old Traeger RTD at ambient while conducting the ice cal for the meat probes, however, I realized that this doesn't translate to accurate measurements at cooking temperatures. Of course, with hindsight, this is plainly evident if you review the test data of my previous posts where the probe temperatures were much higher than the RTD measured temperature.
But before I figured this out, and at the suggestion of Canadian John, I purchased three rather cartoonishly large LEDs for $8 off Amazon and installed them on my project box with red for the igniter, blue for the fan, and yellow for the auger. While it is sometimes useful to be able to see when the igniter is energized, you can just as easily hear when the fan and auger are running but at least I now have a visual confirmation. With these installed I verified that the RecTec controller was always performing as expected and was not to blame for my previous random temperature performance. I take back any disparaging remarks I have made about the state of the RecTec controller software since I now believe it is a fine tuned machine!
Digging around on the RecTec app I found a configuration screen that provides simple instructions and a scaling input which makes it extremely easy to calibrate your RTD.
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Last night, after smoking a tri-tip, I executed this calibration sequence at 350º and determined that the scaling input necessary to match my external probe with the RTD required an increase of about 26 steps above the setting I had calibrated at ambient. I then matched the external probe temperature at RTD temperatures of 225º and 500º which required fine tuning of the scaling input over a 5 step range (+12 at 225º and +8 at 500º where I was using -14 at ambient or about 75º).
In order to demonstrate the RecTec Controller performance with a properly calibrated RTD, I conducted and recorded a final test of a 500º set point just this morning. I hung two temperature probes in the middle of the grill, one meat probe from the RecTec controller and one from my old trusty Redi-Chek that I've been using faithfully for the past six years. As shown in the images below, from a cold start it reached 500º in under 45 minutes. It stalled for about 12 minutes around 460º to 470º and then continued on up to 500º without a problem!
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Well done, keep us updated after you get some time on the unit.
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Magic or just good old fashioned persistence? Now you can relax and enjoy your pit.. Well done!
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Thinking this might only be a temporary upgrade ... I also made a trip to our local Fry's to purchase a black anodized aluminum project box big enough to house the Rec Tec controller and fit over the rectangular cut out where the original Traeger controller was mounted. While
(http://[attach=1,msg36108][/attach])
Do you have the information for that project box?
May be a link?
I’ve got an old 124
And I’m not going to cut up the front of it
But I really think this is the direction I want to go
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This was posted previously in this thread...
It was from Context Engineering - model 6016H-8.5B with dimensions 8.5" L x 6.144" W x 3.090" H which I purchased at Fry's
https://www.frys.com/product/2090841?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG (https://www.frys.com/product/2090841?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)
This was over sized for the new controller but necessary to cover the cutout left after removing the old controller.
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This was posted previously in this thread...
It was from Context Engineering - model 6016H-8.5B with dimensions 8.5" L x 6.144" W x 3.090" H which I purchased at Fry's
https://www.frys.com/product/2090841?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG (https://www.frys.com/product/2090841?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)
This was over sized for the new controller but necessary to cover the cutout left after removing the old controller.
Thanks,
I must have missed that when reading the other day
thanks for the write up,
I really wanna get one of these for my old 124
but, since I dont want to make it perminant, and I cant get a replacement front pannel on my antique traeger,
I've either got to build a box or fabricate a new front pannel
all the other project boxes I'd seen were plastic
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Maybe I just never waited long enough, but I never saw it get any hotter than the low 400s. What was the max temp you achieved with your Lil' Tex?
I never got my Lil Tex above 400 either. I think that was the same for most owners of that pit. Making burgers and steaks even with Grill Grates took longer. Maybe the Rec Tec controller primes the pot with more pellets at start up and keeps the flow going longer? Interesting question John. ???