Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: pmillen on October 11, 2018, 11:32:40 AM
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A news article states that the sales of processed cheese declined 1.6% this year. This is the fourth straight year of decline even though the the number of potential cheese eaters is simultaneously increasing. Processed cheese, including brands like Kraft Singles and Velveeta, are a mainstay of delicacies such as cheeseburgers, macaroni and cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches and stadium nachos.
I'm still using Velveeta for cheeseburgers, macaroni and cheese and grilled cheese sandwiches. What are you using and why?
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Anything but processed. :(
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Wow that is crazy about sales drops. I still use Kraft singles for cheese burgers and grilled cheese. I user Velveeta for mac-n-cheese, queso (Velveeta and Rotel), and chili con queso (Hormel chili no beans and Velveeta).
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We use mostly cheddar and jack but occasional buy american singles. But recently I've been using melting salts to make nacho cheese sauce and singles from smoked cheddar.
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We use Kraft singles quite often for burgers & grilled cheese, we also though use other cheeses as well, just depends.
Velveeta for queso and also grilled cheese.
We eat a lot of cheese and many different kinds but don't think that we have cut back at all on processed?
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We use mostly cheddar and jack but occasional buy american singles. But recently I've been using melting salts to make nacho cheese sauce and singles from smoked cheddar.
I'm guessing that the wider dissemination of knowledge and availability of cheese melting salts might be contributing somewhat to lower sales of storebought processed cheese. People can easily make perfectly melting cheese singles and non-separating cheese sauces (for mac & cheese or nachos) at home now using your favorite cheese, whether it's aged or unaged cheese.
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American is my preference on Cheeseburger! Velveeta in Mac n cheese & Grilled Cheese too! Still like a sharp cheddar on most Mexican dishes cuz real Mex cheese here is not going to happen. Most canned Nacho cheese, like the stuff they use at Taco Bell is disgusting! If you take the time to make it with Velveeta and add some Ro*Tel to it, it harkens back to 1971 and Howard Co Sell!
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Wow that is crazy about sales drops. I still use Kraft singles for cheese burgers and grilled cheese. I user Velveeta for mac-n-cheese, queso (Velveeta and Rotel), and chili con queso (Hormel chili no beans and Velveeta).
Pretty much the same here, but often I will use cheddar, pepper jack or Monterrey Jack for grilled cheese because I like the flavor better. I will add other cheeses to a mac-n-cheese, but need that Velveeta for the smoothness.
There is a big convenience factor with processed cheese, but a better flavor factor with other cheeses.
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I know that you can't live forever, but there are some things that we can do to improve our chances of survival. The following article is similar to one that I read decades ago and is the primary the reason that my response above was "anything but processed cheese". https://www.thealternativedaily.com/processed-cheese-killing-you/ :2cents:
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Apparently it is the millenial generation that isn't eating the product so as older folks dying off their consumption is not being picked up by the younger folks.
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I know that you can't live forever, but there are some things that we can do to improve our chances of survival. The following article is similar to one that I read decades ago and is the primary the reason that my response above was "anything but processed cheese". https://www.thealternativedaily.com/processed-cheese-killing-you/ :2cents:
Yeah, another good reason to make your own. Homemade 'processed cheese food' contains only real cheese, whole milk, and a few grams of melting salts, and performs as well as Velveeta as far as melting, and tastes much better. The melting salts are generally considered safe at all of the 'heathy food' sites that I've seen them mentioned on.
I made it a few times Sous Vide, but last time I just used a heavy sauce pan and low heat and it worked just as well.
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I know that you can't live forever, but there are some things that we can do to improve our chances of survival. The following article is similar to one that I read decades ago and is the primary the reason that my response above was "anything but processed cheese". https://www.thealternativedaily.com/processed-cheese-killing-you/ :2cents:
Well, the latest in global climate change says we are all pretty doomed in about 12 years, so I say "Live it up now!" :cool:
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I make my own "processed cheese". I add sodium citrate to cheese to make it melt correctly. This approach lets me use better flavored cheeses (aged english cheddar anyone?) to use in burgers and mac and cheese.
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/melty-cheese-slices
https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/nacho-cheese
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Pepper jack, cheddar, or my favorite, crumbled blue cheese.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
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I like to make cream of tomato soup, boil up some ramen noodles (throw away flavor pack) and put them in the soup, tear up a couple of slices of kraft american and add them to it as well. Sooo tasty.
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We use mostly cheddar and jack but occasional buy american singles. But recently I've been using melting salts to make nacho cheese sauce and singles from smoked cheddar.
I was about to go on an Internet search to see what melting salts are when ArborAgent posted the links.
Thank you, to both of you.
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Melting salts have changed the way I cook cheesy dishes. Mac and cheese is so much better this way!
https://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/silky-smooth-macaroni-and-cheese/
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I guess I am not into "strong" cheeses. I prefer the flavor of Velveeta to most cheddar's! But I am a big fan of Brie and Camembert!
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At risk of sounding like the dissenting snob here, processed cheese has never turned me on. When refrigerated, that rubbery, plastic-like texture makes me turn my head. Real American cheese from the deli at the supermarket has always tasted better to me. Scrambled eggs and cheese, cheese burgers, mac and cheese all taste drastically more cheesy to me when made with real cheese.
That processed stuff is oil and flavorings. To each their own, I suppose.
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This is why melting salts are so great. All of the flavor and it still melts without separating.
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Swiss and pepper jack are probably my favorites but any kind of cheddar with peppers in it is good too.
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What Sparky said. It doesn't have to be expensive but it has to be real.
I save the fake stuff for flavoured potato chips. :help:
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If it's cheese, I'm in. Tillamook cheddar is the best but I'm prejudiced, it's fairly local. And a trip to the factory when we go to the coast is almost mandatory. :lick:
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This is why melting salts are so great. All of the flavor and it still melts without separating.
Would like to try. What brand did you use and where did you purchase from? Also do they have instructions on package.
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Melting salts have changed the way I cook cheesy dishes. Mac and cheese is so much better this way!
https://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/silky-smooth-macaroni-and-cheese/
Is this the recipe you use? Ever try a variation that would involve baking? Would love to see one of these recipes make it to the recipe section. This is intriguing and I'm in search of a silver bullet mac n cheese recipe for my family.
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Modernist cuisine at home has an entire chapter on Mac and cheese. One of their recipes is a bake recipe
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This is why melting salts are so great. All of the flavor and it still melts without separating.
Would like to try. What brand did you use and where did you purchase from? Also do they have instructions on package.
This is what I got: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013J69JMG/
It comes with both citrate and hexa so it's a good way to try it and see if you like the results. Not every recipe I've seen includes the hexa. In the long run, you are better off getting a larger amount of the sodium citrate as you use much more of that: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BLPNMYY
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Ever try a variation that would involve baking? Would love to see one of these recipes make it to the recipe section. This is intriguing and I'm in search of a silver bullet mac n cheese recipe for my family.
I just posted Mac and Cheese with Veggies in the recipe section.
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PMillen, that looks outrageous. Can't wait to try it!
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I have the sodium citrate now need the hexo.
growing up kraft singles were i the house all the time even velveeta , now can't stand the stuff most of the time, the GF likes both so it is still in the fridge abd she will make some stuff will velveeta I will eat. I love Brick cheese, especially if I find the salty kind, provolone, longhorn/colby, good amarican like land o lakes or a couple other brands but I am picky.
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I've ordered the melting salts from Amazon and will try to incorporate them into other cheese sauces. Guideline seems to be add salts at 2-3% of the liquid weight. My first attempt will be an Alfredo sauce with sous vide shrimp. :lick:
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Right, but the 2-3% is total of liquid plus cheese weight, correct?
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Right, but the 2-3% is total of liquid plus cheese weight, correct?
Yes, that's correct. I've been following the Modernist Cuisine formula with fun and tasty results. They recommend 4% of the "liquid weight" for the amount of sodium citrate to add. That works out to roughly 2% of the "sum of liquid weight plus cheese weight." Almost any cheese you like can be made into a smoothly melting cheese using only 3 ingredients: your cheese of choice, your liquid of choice, and a small amount of sodium citrate. The resulting flavor and smooth texture will be great.
For example, when making a smooth cheese sauce for Mac & Cheese, consider the weight of the cheese to be 100%, then they recommend the weight of the liquid should be 93% of the weight of the cheese, and the weight of the sodium citrate should be 4% of that liquid weight (which is approximately the same as 2% of the sum of the liquid weight plus cheese weight). The formula is very forgiving so there's no need to be extremely precise.
This method of making a silky and non-separating cheese sauce is very easy. No need to make a roux or a bechamel sauce which masks the pure flavor of your favorite cheese. Just whisk a teaspoon or two of sodium citrate into your liquid of choice, heat the liquid and blend in your favorite grated cheese with a stick blender, regular blender, or whisk. This results in a smooth, creamy texture that doesn't become grainy, greasy, or separated. You can also add in any flavors you enjoy like Rotel with green chile or Pico de Gallo.
You can refrigerate any leftovers and reheat it the next day to enjoy the smoothest cheese sauce ever!
For other types of cheese sauces, you can control the final "thickness" of the cheese sauce depending on your ratio of liquid to cheese. If you weigh your cheese and then measure the liquid (water, milk, beer, wine, stock, etc.) as a percentage of that cheese weight, you will get:
Cheese plus 0% to 35% liquid weight = firm, use for making "American" cheese slices for burgers, etc.
Cheese plus 35% to 85% liquid weight = thick and flowing cheese sauce, good for dips and queso.
Cheese plus 85% to 120% liquid weight = thin cheese sauce, good for fondues, mac & cheese, etc.
Cheese plus 120% liquid weight or more = continues to become a thinner and thinner sauce.
Caution: Sodium Citrate is NOT the same as Citric Acid. Use Sodium Citrate for the results above.
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Right, but the 2-3% is total of liquid plus cheese weight, correct?
Yes, that's correct. I've been following the Modernist Cuisine formula with fun and tasty results. They recommend 4% of the "liquid weight" for the amount of sodium citrate to add. That works out to roughly 2% of the "sum of liquid weight plus cheese weight." Almost any cheese you like can be made into a smoothly melting cheese using only 3 ingredients: your cheese of choice, your liquid of choice, and a small amount of sodium citrate. The resulting flavor and smooth texture will be great.
For example, when making a smooth cheese sauce for Mac & Cheese, consider the weight of the cheese to be 100%, then they recommend the weight of the liquid should be 93% of the weight of the cheese, and the weight of the sodium citrate should be 4% of that liquid weight (which is approximately the same as 2% of the sum of the liquid weight plus cheese weight). The formula is very forgiving so there's no need to be extremely precise.
This method of making a silky and non-separating cheese sauce is very easy. No need to make a roux or a bechamel sauce which masks the pure flavor of your favorite cheese. Just whisk a teaspoon or two of sodium citrate into your liquid of choice, heat the liquid and blend in your favorite grated cheese with a stick blender, regular blender, or whisk. This results in a smooth, creamy texture that doesn't become grainy, greasy, or separated. You can also add in any flavors you enjoy like Rotel with green chile or Pico de Gallo.
You can refrigerate any leftovers and reheat it the next day to enjoy the smoothest cheese sauce ever!
For other types of cheese sauces, you can control the final "thickness" of the cheese sauce depending on your ratio of liquid to cheese. If you weigh your cheese and then measure the liquid (water, milk, beer, wine, stock, etc.) as a percentage of that cheese weight, you will get:
Cheese plus 0% to 35% liquid weight = firm, use for making "American" cheese slices for burgers, etc.
Cheese plus 35% to 85% liquid weight = thick and flowing cheese sauce, good for dips and queso.
Cheese plus 85% to 120% liquid weight = thin cheese sauce, good for fondues, mac & cheese, etc.
Cheese plus 120% liquid weight or more = continues to become a thinner and thinner sauce.
Caution: Sodium Citrate is NOT the same as Citric Acid. Use Sodium Citrate for the results above.
Need to give this a try. Going to find some Sodium Citrate on line today. Looking at your recipe this is what I take form it .Correct me if im wrong.
100% weight of cheese 16oz
93% wipping cream 14.88oz
4% liquid weight =.5952oz Sodium Citrate
How do you measure that small amount of Sodium Citrate?
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How do you measure that small amount of Sodium Citrate?
This is how I do it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HCKQG7G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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(https://i.imgur.com/8t4UQ0dh.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/8t4UQ0dh.jpg)
Metric system is a tool of Satan. :help:
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All I know is...it is much easier for me to measure 16g then .59oz.
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I have a cousin that owns a family cheese factory. In fact he owns the whole operation from start to finish, owns land and grows the feed for his cattle, has own grade A dairy, transports to his factory, even owns his own distribution. He started it when fuel and milk prices spiked but the large opperations like Kraft, Medowgold and Goodrich refused to pay the producers a penny more for their milk. It was his way to cut his costs and leave something for his kids. He does open vat processing, highly labor intensive, it’s the reason only he and two commercial producers in Canada use that process, but it produces a superior product. We’ve never had a problem with the melting of his cheese. It may be because the open vat process leaves the cream in where the others remove it and sell it for ice cream. On a side note, anything labeled as American is processed, even if it’s labeled as “Real Americanâ€. Dave does sell his screwup batches that are not of quality to carry his label to large cheese producer for use in making of American.
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Dave does sell his screwup batches that are not of quality to carry his label to large cheese producer for use in making of American.
Well...that's discomforting.
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I have a cousin that owns a family cheese factory. In fact he owns the whole operation from start to finish, owns land and grows the feed for his cattle, has own grade A dairy, transports to his factory, even owns his own distribution. He started it when fuel and milk prices spiked but the large opperations like Kraft, Medowgold and Goodrich refused to pay the producers a penny more for their milk. It was his way to cut his costs and leave something for his kids. He does open vat processing, highly labor intensive, it’s the reason only he and two commercial producers in Canada use that process, but it produces a superior product. We’ve never had a problem with the melting of his cheese. It may be because the open vat process leaves the cream in where the others remove it and sell it for ice cream. On a side note, anything labeled as American is processed, even if it’s labeled as “Real Americanâ€. Dave does sell his screwup batches that are not of quality to carry his label to large cheese producer for use in making of American.
"Processed" has quite a broad and non-regulated definition. Processed is generally accepted to mean either taken out of its original form somehow, or mixed with chemicals (usually to stabilize and lengthen shelf life). The American cheese behind the deli counter, and swiss, and cheddar, and manchego, and others are considered by most NOT to be processed, but I think your statement above can be easily taken out of context. When you say processed, you mean processed in what way?
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I am not afraid to say...
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_183bd982-933c-49ed-9735-0e32ac324b8a?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=pjpeg)
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I never know if people are serious or not...I love that stuff!
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Amazing! just when you think there's nothing else to cooking, smoking or eating..... this information is totally fascinating.
For the record, I'll try anything once or twice...even the easy cheese spread on crackers...lol :2cents:
thanks guys for another great thread!!
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I am not afraid to say...
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_183bd982-933c-49ed-9735-0e32ac324b8a?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=pjpeg)
You can count me in as a believer also, fantastic on the vegetable thins, chicken in a biscuit among others and another favorite, bacon crackers if you can find them.
AND, it is getting that time of the year for those kinds of gatherings............................
Sharp though please!
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Easy Cheese contains milk, water, whey protein concentrate, canola oil, milk protein concentrate, sodium citrate, sodium phosphate, calcium phosphate, lactic acid, sorbic acid, sodium alginate, apocarotenal, annatto, cheese culture, and enzymes.
None of those ingredients looks particularly harmful, but you can make stuff that tastes better and spreads just as easy (sorry no aerosol can) with 100% real cheese, milk, and sodium citrate. Just sayin...
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"Processed" has quite a broad and non-regulated definition. Processed is generally accepted to mean either taken out of its original form somehow, or mixed with chemicals (usually to stabilize and lengthen shelf life). The American cheese behind the deli counter, and swiss, and cheddar, and manchego, and others are considered by most NOT to be processed, but I think your statement above can be easily taken out of context. When you say processed, you mean processed in what way?
[/quote]
Processed in the manner that it can’t be called cheese. Under the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations American can not legally be labeled “Cheese†but it can be called “Processed cheese†or “Cheese byproductâ€. Kraft can’t call theirs cheese because it contains less than 51% cheese, the deli block versions of American require additional processing and would be better called Blended.
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I am not afraid to say...
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_183bd982-933c-49ed-9735-0e32ac324b8a?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=pjpeg)
That cheese is paying my bills. I manufacture about 40 million of those valves and caps on that can a year. :cool:
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40 Million you say, not a very popular item ehh? :pig:
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Need to give this a try. Going to find some Sodium Citrate on line today. Looking at your recipe this is what I take form it .Correct me if im wrong.
100% weight of cheese 16oz
93% wipping cream 14.88oz
4% liquid weight =.5952oz Sodium Citrate
How do you measure that small amount of Sodium Citrate?
Your calculations are correct.
If you don't have a scale, here's an easy hack to use: granulated sodium citrate weighs about 4.25 grams per teaspoon (which is equivalent to about 0.15 ounces per teaspoon).
So in your example above, I would use 4 level teaspoons of sodium citrate (= .6 ounces).
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Need to give this a try. Going to find some Sodium Citrate on line today. Looking at your recipe this is what I take form it .Correct me if im wrong.
100% weight of cheese 16oz
93% wipping cream 14.88oz
4% liquid weight =.5952oz Sodium Citrate
How do you measure that small amount of Sodium Citrate?
Your calculations are correct.
If you don't have a scale, here's an easy hack to use: granulated sodium citrate weighs about 4.25 grams per teaspoon (which is equivalent to about 0.15 ounces per teaspoon).
So in your example above, I would use 4 level teaspoons of sodium citrate (= .6 ounces).
Sounds good will try. Easier than getting my gun powder scale out used for reloading.
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I am not afraid to say...
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_183bd982-933c-49ed-9735-0e32ac324b8a?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=pjpeg)
That cheese is paying my bills. I manufacture about 40 million of those valves and caps on that can a year. :cool:
I liked the old caps better
We can't get it here in Canada but anyone I know that goes to the US is programmed to seek and buy for me.
I saved an old style cap :)
For me it also must be Sharp Cheddar but I could not find a good image of the can (did not really put much effort into it :) )
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The caps keep getting changed to make them more tamper resistant. Kids where huffing the nitrous oxide gas out of whip cream cans. Stores telling us cans where not getting charged.
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I hope I did this link-y thing-y ok.
https://skillet.lifehacker.com/make-gooey-melty-slices-out-of-any-cheese-with-melting-1778257068 (https://skillet.lifehacker.com/make-gooey-melty-slices-out-of-any-cheese-with-melting-1778257068)
Campbell's Soup makes a cheese soup in a can that is easy to mix with a can of Rotel to make dip.
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Check out the melting salts calculator (https://forums.egullet.org/melty-cheese-calculator/).
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Check out the melting salts calculator (https://forums.egullet.org/melty-cheese-calculator/).
Still working with melting salts and loving the results.
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True cheese story. Had a friend who used to do over the road trucking. Had his own refer rig. Mostly he would haul back and from MN to TX (he could haul ice cream from MN to Dallas and his rig would be -20 F the whole way). Several times for a load back they would send him over to Clovis, NM and pick up cheese AND HAVE HIM HAUL IT TO WISCONSIN. I kid you not.
As Paul Harvey used to say: “And now you know . . . the rest of the story.â€
Z