Pellet Fan

All Things Considered => General Discussion--Non food Related => Topic started by: texasbrew on February 01, 2021, 01:59:43 PM

Title: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: texasbrew on February 01, 2021, 01:59:43 PM
The article talks about how Traeger has patented cloud based WIFI pellet cooker control (even though GMG has had the feature for years).  This action will affect many of the major brands of cookers as they employ this feature.

I just find it fascinating that no manufacturers (after spending countless hours developing a wifi cloud based control) applied for the patent and left the loophole in place for Traeger to get the patents. 

Here is the link to the article:

https://www.derrickriches.com/traeger-lawsuit/
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 01, 2021, 02:26:11 PM
That's a good reason to not buy a Traeger product.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: texasbrew on February 01, 2021, 02:45:42 PM
The article makes me wonder about other internet enabled devices.  For instance, are royalties being paid to somebody for cloud based hvac thermostat, cloud remote auto start, cloud based pool controls, etc.? 
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 01, 2021, 02:59:02 PM
Sounds as ridiculous as Ford Motor Corp. getting a patent for driving on the roads and suing every other manufacturer that has cars being driven on them.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: Canadian John on February 01, 2021, 03:28:55 PM

 Kind of takes the fun out of enjoying ones pit thinking the manufacturer is trying to use the law to squeeze out the competition rather than be instrumental in development and marketing strategies.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: dk117 on February 01, 2021, 03:30:07 PM
The article makes me wonder about other internet enabled devices.  For instance, are royalties being paid to somebody for cloud based hvac thermostat, cloud remote auto start, cloud based pool controls, etc.?
Agreed, this is absurd.  IOT (Internet of Things) is not something you can patent and make a monopoly.   And while I have no problem with Traeger receiving a patent for their mobile app, that doesn't mean a competitor could not also have a different mobile app with the same general purpose (and a separate patent if they wanted.) 

DK
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: Bentley on February 01, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
It is interesting.  I was contacted by a GMG investigator an subpoena for evidence by GMG council.  Don't have any documents, so I am no help there.  I was able to help guide them to the wayback site and they were able to bring up the Wi-fi review I did on the Daniel Boone in March of 2015.  I wish I could be of more help.  Does seem like a very broad thing to allow a patent on.  I guess they are going after GMG cuz they are taking the biggest bite out of Traegers revenue now.

It makes me change my theory on who bought Pelletheads.com!
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: jgrayson on February 01, 2021, 04:34:46 PM
This lawsuit makes me wonder about the laws on public domain.  The article says MAK created the first WiFi enabled controller in 2012 (or was it 2013?), but they didn't seek a patent.  GMG, Traeger, FireCraft (RIP), and other got on the bandwagon but Traeger is the one that started trouble.  I seem to remember from my educational pursuit towards my Master's Degree that the laws around intellectual property were discussed in either a cybersecurity or ethics course.  There was also mention of public domain and after a certain amount of time new idea lose their novelty and things like patents expire.  In information technology the pace is change is so rapid that going back 8 or 9 years to protect something as simple as WiFi control of a device seems absurd.  Today, all kinds of things are controlled through apps on your phone.  Seems like enforcement of a patent today for something that in every day use is unfair to all of the companies that have been developing products using this technology.  Oh well, understanding stuff like this is for lawyers and judges, but even though I've never owner a GMG product I wouldn't want to see them go out of business over a patent infringement for an idea that Traeger didn't even conceive.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 01, 2021, 06:24:52 PM
Well, it is also a way for someone with deep pockets to distract the cash flow and resources of other smaller companies by making them deal with this lawsuit rather than focusing on quality and innovation of their product line.  I've been a part of slightly different scenarios with those with deep pockets letting their ego get in the way and acting like Gordon Gecko (the guy in the Wall St movie) to attempt to drain another company's resources over the most trivial things because they have the money to do it.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: BigDave83 on February 01, 2021, 06:42:35 PM
I wonder if it is coincidence that this WIFI suit comes out now as I think Pit Boss just started making a WIFI controller for some of their cookers. They have been after Dansons because of Joe Traeger's joining them.

 I also would wonder how that would effect, a company like Smokin It, that makes an electric smoker with WIFi just not pellet fed.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: GatorDave on February 02, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
I don't see any way that these patents hold up.  In my opinion Traeger just seems to be trying to bankrupt/bully the little guys in the market.  They may not have the money to fight a protracted lawsuit and may just buckle and not use wifi rather than bother with it.  The Webers of the world I'm sure will have something to say about it though.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: JoeGrilling on February 08, 2021, 10:10:47 PM
I was in a company that was sued by a competitor for something we had and sold for years.  They were recently awarded a patented.  Our attorneys collected all of my lab books, product specifications, and other documentation.  It is a good thing I tend to be a pack rat.  They fought the suit and won based on "prior art".  It seems that applies here. 
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: pmillen on November 06, 2023, 01:16:54 AM
Has this suit been settled in some fashion?

If so, what was the outcome?

I see that most manufacturers are offering cloud controlled pits so I suspect that Traeger's patents were cancelled making the lawsuit moot.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: Canadian John on November 06, 2023, 06:17:57 AM
Has this suit been settled in some fashion?

If so, what was the outcome?

I see that most manufacturers are offering cloud controlled pits so I suspect that Traeger's patents were cancelled making the lawsuit moot.

 That's a good question Paul.  Too bad Traeger is spending so much time & money on things like this. Ultimately the customer ends up paying.  It would be interesting to know how much these litigations truly add to the cost of a pit..
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: BigDave83 on November 06, 2023, 07:25:43 AM
Not a lawyer so not exactly sure what this actually means. To me it looks like GMG appealed the case and then Traeger just dropped it altogether, costing both companies a lot of money for nothing.

Side note to this,  I read a lot of unhappy GMG customers on the facebook pages, because of the lack of customer service and repair parts availability. Also a lot of issues with the newer produced grills.  This is only what I see from a few of the GMG pages and we know that usually people happy with their purchase rarely praise compared to the unhappy who would like everyone to know how unhappy they are.

https://cafc.uscourts.gov/opinions-orders/22-1312.ORDER.10-18-2022_2020463.pdf
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: Kristin Meredith on November 06, 2023, 09:45:02 AM
As I read the order, there were two appeals.  Traeger dropped the first appeal and asked to be added to the second appeal, which the Court granted.  The Court then set a briefing schedule.  I don't know if the parties filed those briefs, but that should have happened by early 2023.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: BigDave83 on November 06, 2023, 10:37:51 AM
As I read the order, there were two appeals.  Traeger dropped the first appeal and asked to be added to the second appeal, which the Court granted.  The Court then set a briefing schedule.  I don't know if the parties filed those briefs, but that should have happened by early 2023.


So initially T filed suit against G and won and G appealed and T agreed to the appeal? Or maybe I misunderstood the original suit.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: Kristin Meredith on November 06, 2023, 11:37:00 AM
According to the caption, the parties to the suit were the International Trade Commission and GMC.  Traeger was an intervenor on the side of the ITC.  That was the appeal which was dismissed.  The second suit seems to be Traeger vs the ITC with GMC as the intervenor and that is the suit which was allowed to proceed.  Since Traeger is the appellant in the second suit, that would suggest they lost that suit. That is the appeal going forward.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: hughver on November 06, 2023, 12:18:46 PM
Thanks Meredith for the clarifications, I too was a bit confused.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: pmillen on November 06, 2023, 04:44:25 PM
So—The appeal doesn't affect potential pellet pit buyers' ability to purchase pits with cloud-based control now but it may in the future, based on the appeal outcome?

EDIT:  I wish a pit manufacturer's spokesperson would give us their official company line.  Mackdaddy used to comment once-in-a-while but hasn't for three or four years.

ZCZ (Alan) can you reach  back to Memphis and find out what they think?
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: Kristin Meredith on November 06, 2023, 09:05:52 PM
I don't have the original complaints to look at to see what was alleged in each one.  Plus, you would need to know the procedural history to know if any claims were dismissed along the way, modified or determined in a party's favor.  Just not enough info to know what ruling was being appealed.
Title: Re: Pellet Grill Wifi Lawsuit Article
Post by: rfinley on November 17, 2023, 10:12:10 AM
Something similar happened with downdraft accessory. If I remember correctly there was a pellet smoker who had a metal shop that made a good downdraft attachment for the GMG's. Nice heavy stainless steel that wouldn't collapse when you tightened it down. Then a guy started making a thin knockoff with his name all over it. Applied for patents and received it. Original guy shutdown.