Pellet Fan

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to Pellet Fan!

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: What Makes-Up Smoke Flavor  (Read 615 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pmillen

  • Global Moderator
  • You are starting to smell like smoke.
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3311
  • This pistol is most fun for the buck
What Makes-Up Smoke Flavor
« on: August 20, 2018, 10:18:04 AM »

I've been fooling around with smoking steaks by preparing them various ways–
  • Reverse searing
  • Searing, then smoking
  • High temperature smoking and not searing
  • Smoking, sous vide and searing
It caused me to think about smoke flavor as though it's a spice or seasoning.  That generated a few questions.  Does anyone have solid data on these?  I'm not looking for opinion.
  • What does smoke flavor consist of?  Ash?  Creosote?  More?
  • How deep does it penetrate?
  • Is it changed, reduced or removed by searing?
  • Does it change over time?
  • If it changes over time, why?  Some sort of outgassing?

I've formed some opinions but they're just anecdotal.  Has anyone discovered research on these questions?

I wish I had the unabridged version of Modernist Cuisine.  Nathan Myhrvold may have looked into it.
Logged
Paul

MAK 2-Star – M Grills M-36 – Hunsaker Drum – Basic 36" Blackstone Griddle – PK Grill – Masterbuilt 1050 – Kamado Joe Big Joe w/FireBoard Drive & Blower

Kristin Meredith

  • Administrator
  • You are starting to smell like smoke.
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3289
Re: What Makes-Up Smoke Flavor
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 10:46:56 AM »

I don't know if this is helpful or not:

When smoking a piece of meat, how does the wood flavor get infused into it?
The oxygen breaks down the lignin in wood and releases a smoky aroma that sticks to the moist surface of the meat, flavoring it.

Source:
Guy Crosby, PhD, CFS, IFT member (Institute of Food Technology, Chicago)
Logged

Kristin Meredith

  • Administrator
  • You are starting to smell like smoke.
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3289
Re: What Makes-Up Smoke Flavor
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2018, 10:56:12 AM »

Also, this -- don't really know if it responds to your inquiries:


From Amanda Greene
Food Scientist

A pink (or red) color in meat usually indicates the presence of myoglobin. Myoglobin’s reddish pigment is usually lost when meat is cooked because the heat causes it to denature and turn brown. The center of a rare steak remains red because it never reaches a high enough temperature to denature the myoglobin. However, the outside of smoked meat gets extremely hot over the course of cooking, so cool temperatures can’t be the cause of the pink color in smoked meats. What else might cause myoglobin to stick around, despite the heat? It must be something in contact with the surface, since that’s the only place the pink color appears. That means it’s either the dry rub seasoning or the smoke itself. We know the dry rub can’t be the cause because when the same dry rub is used on meat that’s cooked in an oven or slow cooker, the pink ring doesn’t develop. So, by process of elimination, we know that the smoke itself is causing the pink ring - but how?

It turns out that burning organic fuels like wood, charcoal or gas produces a variety of chemicals, including trace amounts of nitrogen dioxide (NO2) gas. When NO2 gas meets the surface, it dissolves into the meat and picks up a hydrogen molecule, becoming nitrous acid (HNO2), which then gets converted into nitric oxide (NO). NO reacts with myoglobin, and together they form a stable pink molecule that can withstand heat.(Note 1).  The thickness of the ring depends on how deep into the meat the NO is able to penetrate before reacting with myoglobin.

As you can imagine, this reaction has to occur fairly early in the cooking process, before the surface of the meat reaches temperatures that would denature myoglobin. Since smoking cooks meat with gentle temperatures, this reaction has more time to occur before myoglobin is lost. Even though gas and charcoal are commonly used for grilling, you wouldn’t see the smoke ring occur in grilled meats because the heat in that application is so high that the reaction doesn’t have time to occur before the myoglobin around the edges is lost.

In fact, a similar reaction occurs in nitrite-cured meats like ham, corned beef, and hot dogs. That’s what gives those meats their uniquely pink color!

Notes

1. Harold McGee, On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen (New York: Scribner, 2004), 148-149.



Logged

pmillen

  • Global Moderator
  • You are starting to smell like smoke.
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3311
  • This pistol is most fun for the buck
Re: What Makes-Up Smoke Flavor
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 11:45:35 AM »

My question, "How deep doe it penetrate?"

When smoking a piece of meat, how does the wood flavor get infused into it?
The oxygen breaks down the lignin in wood and releases a smoky aroma that sticks to the moist surface of the meat, flavoring it.

Source:
Guy Crosby, PhD, CFS, IFT member (Institute of Food Technology, Chicago)

Dr. Crosby addresses the question, "[H]ow does the wood flavor get infused into it?"  The emphasis is mine.  That begs the question of whether the flavor is in the meat or on it.  His response, "The oxygen breaks down the lignin in wood and releases a smoky aroma that sticks to the moist surface of the meat, flavoring it."  So, a smoky aroma coats the meat's surface and we taste the aroma.  That doesn't tell me much about the components but it does indicate that the smoke flavor is on the surface, not infused into the meat as the question posed to him asks.

So, now we have smoke aroma that we can taste when it's sitting on the meat's surface.  I wonder what happens to it when we hammer it with 1,000° flame in our direct zones?  That was the genesis of another of my questions, "Is it changed, reduced or removed by searing?"
Logged
Paul

MAK 2-Star – M Grills M-36 – Hunsaker Drum – Basic 36" Blackstone Griddle – PK Grill – Masterbuilt 1050 – Kamado Joe Big Joe w/FireBoard Drive & Blower

bregent

  • Thinkin about Renouncing Charcoal.
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 925
Re: What Makes-Up Smoke Flavor
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 12:35:29 PM »

Along with the articles he contributes to at Amazing ribs, Greg Blonder has a few other good published works on smoke that might help with understanding what's going on:
https://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/sratlas.html#
https://www.genuineideas.com/Assets/imageassets/NBBQA%20Talk-%202015-%20Greg%20Blonder.pdf

As far as the effect of searing after smoking, I can only offer anecdotal evidence - food that I reverse sear still has plenty of wood smoke flavor. If it's been altered or reduced, it's not by much.
Logged

pmillen

  • Global Moderator
  • You are starting to smell like smoke.
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3311
  • This pistol is most fun for the buck
Re: What Makes-Up Smoke Flavor
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 02:20:47 PM »

There is an extensive article on smoke, wood and combustion on Amazingribs by MeatHead.  Here is the address (not sure this violates the link rules):  amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/grill-and-smoker-setup-and-firing/what-you-need-know-about-wood-smoke-and.
Meathead writes (apparently quoting Dr. Blonder), “Smoke includes as many as 100 compounds in the form of microscopic solids including char, creosote, ash, and phenols, as well as combustion gases that include carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, nitric oxide, syringol, and liquids such as water vapor and syringol, an oil.”

What happens to them when they’re exposed to searing heat in the direct-zone?  One at a time–
Char . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It’s what’s left behind if wood is burned without adequate oxygen.  Wood char is charcoal.  Searing the meat will burn off the char.
Creosote. . . . . . . . . . . It burns as anyone who’s had a chimney fire will tell you.  So, it burns off during searing.
Ash. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It’s not combustible.  It stays behind after searing.
Phenols . . . . . . . . . . . Phenols will sublimate and boil off at direct-zone temperatures.
Carbon monoxide. . . . It’s a gas.  If it hangs around the meat, it’ll burn and become carbon dioxide.
Carbon dioxide. . . . . . It’s a gas.  I doubt that it stays with the meat but if it does, it’s without odor or taste.
Nitric oxide . . . . . . . . It’s a gas.  It’ll burn and become nitrogen dioxide.
Syringol. . . . . . . . . . . It ignites at about 285°.  The direct zone will burn it.
Syringol oil . . . . . . . . It's a mix of syringol and water.  The water evaporates and the syringol burns.

So, smoke flavor sitting on the meat’s surface is hit with our direct zone’s 1,000° heat and all but ash boils or burns off.

Interestingly, wood ash and water make caustic lye, potassium hydroxide.  It’s not likely that we get much lye in a bite, but I wonder…

Searing in a frying pan won’t be at 1,000°, in fact I try to avoid searing by browning our steaks at much lower temperatures.
Logged
Paul

MAK 2-Star – M Grills M-36 – Hunsaker Drum – Basic 36" Blackstone Griddle – PK Grill – Masterbuilt 1050 – Kamado Joe Big Joe w/FireBoard Drive & Blower
Pages: [1]   Go Up