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Author Topic: Tesla the Car not the inventor...  (Read 2417 times)

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JoeGrilling

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2022, 01:06:42 PM »

Bob, thanks for so much great info.  I know people with hybrids, but no all electric so I am very curious about many things.  Tesla offered to put some chargers in our free public parking lots in Culpeper, but the town refused (still don't know why).  My investment advisors have their own land/building/parking lot and they have one which can charge two cars at a time and tell me it is in use a lot of evenings. If someone was visiting Culpeper and needed a charge, it might be difficult.

If you need to use just a 110 volt overnight at a hotel, how does that work?
Toyota has been pretty slow to join the 100% electric vehicle market because of the lack of infrastructure.  They have done very well with hybrids and happy to focus their current efforts there.  My wife has a coworker with a 50 mile commute and he purchased a Tesla Model 3.  His plan was to charge his vehicle at work on a charger provided by his office building that no one seemed to be using.  Well there was a reason for that.  The charger was broken and the building management had no plans to fix it.  So on to plan B and charge it at home.  It turns out the home he was renting did not have 220 VAC in the garage.  Charging time on 110VAC overnight was excessive and did not cover his commute.  Fortunately, a neighbor had a 220 VAC charger and he uses it. 
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Bob The Smoker

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2022, 01:27:05 PM »

The second generation Volts came with a charger that was wired for 110 volt but you could buy/make an adapter that you plug into 240 volt and the charger would auto-sense what it was connected to.
The charger itself would run on either. Tesla (used to) come with a home charger. It came with a 110 volt plug that could be removed and replaced with a NEMA 14-50 or 14-30 plug for about $50 each.
If you run out of charge, you contact Tesla Roadside Assistance and they will arrange to have you towed to a charging station. My guess would be a very long wait so that is why I plan way ahead. I have heard that some of their new service vans have a large battery that they can give you enough charge to get you to a charging station.

Some people use a cable lock they run trough their wheels to lock the charger in place at hotels. Never did it myself with the Volt because I could just use gas.
A lot of hotels are having Tesla Destination Chargers installed. They don't require high DC current that the Superchargers use, just 240 volt connections. These are seen as a perk for guest. I know some people will search for a a hotel with these chargers and are willing to pay a little more a night but have a piece of mind that they will have a full charge the next morning.
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Bob The Smoker

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2022, 01:47:23 PM »

Funny. I just noticed that under my user name it says "Using Less Gas".
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02ebz06

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2022, 01:54:53 PM »

The second generation Volts came with a charger that was wired for 110 volt but you could buy/make an adapter that you plug into 240 volt and the charger would auto-sense what it was connected to.
The charger itself would run on either. Tesla (used to) come with a home charger. It came with a 110 volt plug that could be removed and replaced with a NEMA 14-50 or 14-30 plug for about $50 each.
If you run out of charge, you contact Tesla Roadside Assistance and they will arrange to have you towed to a charging station. My guess would be a very long wait so that is why I plan way ahead. I have heard that some of their new service vans have a large battery that they can give you enough charge to get you to a charging station.

Some people use a cable lock they run trough their wheels to lock the charger in place at hotels. Never did it myself with the Volt because I could just use gas.
A lot of hotels are having Tesla Destination Chargers installed. They don't require high DC current that the Superchargers use, just 240 volt connections. These are seen as a perk for guest. I know some people will search for a a hotel with these chargers and are willing to pay a little more a night but have a piece of mind that they will have a full charge the next morning.

Thanks for the info Bob.
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elenis

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2022, 09:26:46 AM »

I own a Honda Clarity PHEV and depending on weather and how I am driving I can go around 50 miles all electric. I test drove a Volt, but the car was too small to fit my family comfortably.  I just have the level 1 charger that came with my vehicle at this point, but I am  going to be installing a 50amp circuit and a level 2 charger in my garage soon. My car only supports charging at up to 32Amps, but that won't be the case in the future when I go all electric. I couldn't imagine having a full electric and trying to get by on a level 1 charger since it takes like 12 hours on a level 1 charger with my plug in hybrid. I think the big thing going forward if your looking at non-tesla's for electric vehicles it is all about looking for the new 800v platforms so that you can support the really fast DC Fast charging. With those on those chargers you can go from near empty to 80% charge in around 18 minutes, which when your adding several hundred miles during that time gives you a chance to stretch your legs, hit the bathroom, and get snacks and your on your way. 
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02ebz06

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2022, 10:40:11 AM »

My Volt has the level 1 charger.  The 240V charger for it  that I have in the garage is only 20A. Four hours for full charge.
If you are going to put a 50A circuit in, I suggest running wire capable of handling 60 or 80 amp to future-proof it. I think Tesla's use 60A now. Larger wire is more efficient anyway.
Circuit Breakers are easy to change, pulling new wiring isn't.
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BigDave83

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2022, 11:54:13 AM »

I can not see me ever buying an electric where I live. Hybrid possibly. My closest charging are Tesla chargers about 10 miles away. after that the next closest is easy 20+.

 Terrain here is either up or down very little level driving. Being 350 pounds I doubt that the 330 miles or what ever they claim to get would apply to me in it, add some more stuff and another person and probably game over. Also they do not look like they would be easy to get in and out of for me.

 I did watch a few videos on the Rivian not sure how they charge, or how any of it actually works, but they would be more my style.

Is a charger a charger, meaning if I bought a Rivian or another brand electric can I charge it at a Tesla station or do I need to find another way if I am away from home?

What is the cost to charge at different places? I never looked at the Tesla station, do you just swipe a credit card?

edit to add.
Living where it snows a lot, curious as to how the electronics hold up to the wet and the salt in the winter. I see what it does to the under side of vehicles now.

I guess my other thought is as the number of electric vehicles increase on the road, how will that work with the grid. In a lot of areas the grid seems to be insufficient currently, I doubt it will be built up to handle the added load easily and quickly. Power plants closing and around me coal is king, they are trying to put coal fired plants out of business. Taking power plants out and increasing the demand seems like what we are going through now with fuel and gas prices.

Not sure there is a winning outcome for consumers of either electric or petroleum fueled vehicles.

Seems like a good solution would be garbage incinerators to produce electricity instead of land fills or dumping it in the ocean. Although the air scrubbers could make that cost prohibitive.

edit to ask

I live where it snows a lot in the winter, how do the electronics handle the wet and more importantly the salt used on the roads.

 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 12:01:07 PM by BigDave83 »
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02ebz06

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2022, 12:09:46 PM »

If you google tesla charging stations, you can get to a map that shows 4500+ in north America, with the majority on the east coast, so there must be cars there.
I don't thing your climate would be an issue.
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BigDave83

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2022, 01:30:06 PM »

there may be cars on the east coast, I do see a few around where I live. Just 2 charging stations in the county I live in. They are just off or on the PA turnpike. I would think if that road didn't go through the county there would not be any in Somerset county.
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02ebz06

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2022, 01:39:25 PM »

I'm sure they install them where higher populations are.
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Bob The Smoker

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2022, 05:59:28 PM »

I own a Honda Clarity PHEV and depending on weather and how I am driving I can go around 50 miles all electric. I test drove a Volt, but the car was too small to fit my family comfortably.  I just have the level 1 charger that came with my vehicle at this point, but I am  going to be installing a 50amp circuit and a level 2 charger in my garage soon. My car only supports charging at up to 32Amps, but that won't be the case in the future when I go all electric. I couldn't imagine having a full electric and trying to get by on a level 1 charger since it takes like 12 hours on a level 1 charger with my plug in hybrid. I think the big thing going forward if your looking at non-tesla's for electric vehicles it is all about looking for the new 800v platforms so that you can support the really fast DC Fast charging. With those on those chargers you can go from near empty to 80% charge in around 18 minutes, which when your adding several hundred miles during that time gives you a chance to stretch your legs, hit the bathroom, and get snacks and your on your way.

I agree fully that the Clarity is a better family car than the Volt for size. I did not like the way the Clarity incorporates with the ICE (internal combustion engine) sometimes but overall it is still a good platform.

I have to add that we (including me) are using some wrong terms. The cable we use to connect the the wall to the car is nothing more than a charging cable. It is not a charger. The car has an on-board charger that takes A/C from the wall and converts it into DC that charges the battery. That is why most modern charging stations are DC fast chargers. DC fast charging puts power directly into the battery. On board chargers built into cars convert AC power to DC power to charge the batteries. Older platforms including most Volts and Claritys can only handle 32 amps to convert to DC. If you hard wire a Tesla Home Charger to a 60 amp circuit that can provide 48 amps at 11 kw which will give you 42 miles per hour in a model Y. This what I researched from the web. Not first hand experience.
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02ebz06

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2022, 06:07:02 PM »

I guess I don't understand why my 240V "charger" has such a large box then if it is doing no conversion.
Why wouldn't they just sell you a cable that has a 240V xA plug on one end and the car plug on the other ?
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elenis

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2022, 08:13:24 AM »

I guess I don't understand why my 240V "charger" has such a large box then if it is doing no conversion.
Why wouldn't they just sell you a cable that has a 240V xA plug on one end and the car plug on the other ?

If you check out Amazon you basically can go that route. I am looking at a ChargePoint for my garage and I think the reason it has the box primarily is for the extra smart features and what it takes to hold those, since I know if I wanted to be cheap I could just get an adapter and use the plug that came with my car and save a whole lot of money. I am part of an electric co-op so they don't do any of the time of use power or any of that kind of thing thankfully. So I don't really need to schedule my charging for certain times or anything, but I like knowing additional information and perhaps in the future that will be pertinent information.
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elenis

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2022, 08:16:04 AM »

I can not see me ever buying an electric where I live. Hybrid possibly. My closest charging are Tesla chargers about 10 miles away. after that the next closest is easy 20+.

 Terrain here is either up or down very little level driving. Being 350 pounds I doubt that the 330 miles or what ever they claim to get would apply to me in it, add some more stuff and another person and probably game over. Also they do not look like they would be easy to get in and out of for me.

 I did watch a few videos on the Rivian not sure how they charge, or how any of it actually works, but they would be more my style.

Is a charger a charger, meaning if I bought a Rivian or another brand electric can I charge it at a Tesla station or do I need to find another way if I am away from home?

What is the cost to charge at different places? I never looked at the Tesla station, do you just swipe a credit card?

edit to add.
Living where it snows a lot, curious as to how the electronics hold up to the wet and the salt in the winter. I see what it does to the under side of vehicles now.

I guess my other thought is as the number of electric vehicles increase on the road, how will that work with the grid. In a lot of areas the grid seems to be insufficient currently, I doubt it will be built up to handle the added load easily and quickly. Power plants closing and around me coal is king, they are trying to put coal fired plants out of business. Taking power plants out and increasing the demand seems like what we are going through now with fuel and gas prices.

Not sure there is a winning outcome for consumers of either electric or petroleum fueled vehicles.

Seems like a good solution would be garbage incinerators to produce electricity instead of land fills or dumping it in the ocean. Although the air scrubbers could make that cost prohibitive.

edit to ask

I live where it snows a lot in the winter, how do the electronics handle the wet and more importantly the salt used on the roads.

I hope I can answer some of this for you. My closest charging stations are probably 15 minutes away or so, but pretty much everything is where I live. I would imagine unless you’re doing long trips the vast majority of charging would be done with a level 2 charger at home. The nice thing about the up and down driving is that on the way down you get some regeneration. Your weight won’t make a big deal to the car’s mileage, the amount of climate control you use has much greater effect. I haven’t been in a Tesla, but they aren’t necessarily what I am looking at anyways because from an initial quality standpoint they rate poorly. I do believe Tesla seems to have superior battery chemistry though.

Charger wise there is basically Tesla and then everybody else at this point. Tesla is looking to open up their chargers to non-Tesla folks in the near future and with the legislation going on in Europe I believe Tesla is going to have to change the connector they use there which might lead them to do the same one everywhere. My car only supports AC charging and uses the J1772 plug. The plug that allows AC or DC fast charging is called CCS and basically part of the CCS plug is the J1772 so you can use either. So, until Tesla opens it up you wouldn’t be able to use the closest charging station with a non-Tesla. Cost wise to charge at a station you’re typically looking at $.30-.60 a kWh so depending on how many kWh’s your battery holds it could run from $11-45. Average cost per kWh at home is $.12. Most charging stations seem to be owned by one of a few companies and typically you just sign up for an app on your phone that you tie to a payment method and when you get to a station you open your app and point it at the charger and away you go.

We use a lot of salt on the roads here in Ohio as well and it doesn’t make electric cars rust anymore then ones running on gas. The battery cells are all packed and protected from the elements as well as protected from collisions.

Power wise the huge push is obviously for renewables, but the big issue at this point is they need to work on more grid level storage. Solar panels, like I have on my house, and wind are great when it is sunny and it is windy, but those aren’t necessarily always there. I know when I installed solar the payback was pretty quick as long as I didn’t add batteries and so that is what I did. So now I still get to experience power outages when the grid is down, but my project will only take 8 years to break even. If I would have added batteries it would have taken potentially 25 years.
Car wise I am really interested in the Fisker Ocean when it comes to my next one.
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Bar-B-Lew

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Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2022, 09:37:01 AM »

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ev-adoption-behavioral-changes-101718236.html

One article that supports the theory that the CA power grid can't support full conversion to electric vehicles.

Also, not sure how those at middle class or below afford an electric car if gas cars are to be phased out at some point.  And, how much does it cost to replace the battery in these electric or hybrid cars.  I bet that 75% of the country doesn't have enough money in their savings account to cover such a cost.

I applaud those making the transition, but I don't think it is feasible for the entire country to transition within the timelines that have been established for at least these few reasons at a minimum.
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