Pellet Fan
Pit Talk -- Comments and Questions Regarding These Pellet Pits => Which Pit Should I Choose? => Topic started by: markalbob on February 23, 2018, 01:02:47 PM
-
Hi all, first post but I am looking to buy a pellet smoker to replace some old stuff--I have a propane grill and a home-made drum. I have read a fair bit on here and understand the pellet smoker has some limitations in both grilling and smoking, but they appeal all the same--controlling temps was a pain in the drum, and my grill was already a deeply sub-par grill.
I have a budget of between $500 and $800, with an ABSOLUTE ceiling of a thousand. Bonus points to keep me below that, for sure. I know I won't get everything on my wish list at that price, but since different people value different things here are my main objectives:
1. Big enough for at least one turkey. Ideally two.
2. Most stable temp control I can manage in that price range--I know people here complain of some devices having 20-degree swings, which may not be ideal and if I can avoid that, great...but my drum did worse than that and still cooked very well, including never burning anything. It just made timing and when dinner was really done much more of an adventure.
3. Best/heaviest construction. Stainless would be great, so would thick, and double-walled. Somethings gotta give but there's also degrees of construction as well, so looking for the most robust builds in my price range.
Things I don't care about (admittedly I may just not see the value and you can point out my newbie errors):
Bluetooth (I can check probes by stepping outside once in awhile....again still vastly easier than my drum, where I was sliding a cooking thermometer into a hole in the lid-is there another big value-added to this?)
multiple meat probes (again nice, but I can poke the meat once in awhile, and it will still be way less work than my drum plus I can buy these as aftermarket add-ons)
Sear box (I have several portable burners and cooktops, and cast iron skillets)
so, thoughts? Where is my money best spent Sales are certainly welcome, anything $1200 bumped to 899 for example would be great. I looked at the rec tec grills hard, but it seems a number of 680 complaints have cropped up recently in terms of build finish and apparently some of the assembly hardware, so less certain now. The woodwind looks nice but includes a searer I don't want, however there's a lot of camp chef (and green mountain, and other) units out there.......thoughts anyone?
Thanks in advance,
Mark
-
Although I don’t have one, if in your shoes, I’d take a serious look at the Grilla Grills Silverbac. I’ve heard nothing but good stuff about them and they are well within your budget.
-
Double walled is not going to happen in the under $1000 pellet grill market today... ( or probably every ).
Heaviest construction??? well that's pretty tricky too , some of the really heavy duty grills out are above $1000...
I'm not normally a big fan of the Rec Tec RT-680, but that was often because I felt it was a little overpriced... They normally are basically $1000 plus shipping, which normally would put you at close to $1200... I'm also not a big fan of 20" diameter barrel shaped grills, because they to some degree limit how much room you have inside the grill... but then there aren't many grills under $1000 that have better headroom either. So... anyway, while I'm not usually a fan... Right now Rec Tec is closing out the RT-680, because they have a newer model coming... the RT-680 can be had for $998 which includes shipping ( only until they are all sold, the new model is $1200 which includes shipping ).
There are a lot of other grills under $1000... but none that fit the description of what your asking for ( heavy steel, etc... )... Normally I'd suggest you look at GMG, but they are not known for their heavy duty steel... they are a good grill, with more headroom than many other grills... but anyway...
Good luck, I'm sure many others have many other opinions on the matter...
FYI - two turkeys of what size... :) I could fit two 12 pound turkeys on a lot of grills, but two 18 lb turkeys is probably a bit trickier to do.
-
Id look into the Pitboss Austin XL. Good size and from my brief examination soild build. Weighs about 200 lbs
-
I would give a Grilla Silverbac a good hard look. $699 shipped to your door. The bottom half of the cook chamber is double-walled for insulation, and requires absolutely no blanket in the winter. It will smoke in sub-zero temps without any issues whatsoever, but the RTD would need to be pre-warmed with either your hand or a lighter or torch just to get it started up at sub-zero temps. Also keep in mind that going below 220 degrees in that cold of an environment is not conducive to keeping the fire going in the fire pot with cold air blowing on it. Having said that, the Silverbac was far and away the best choice for me at that price range, not to mention it's extremely well-built, weighs nearly 200lbs and will last for years to come. As for temperature swings, don't get too hung up on keeping temperature swings at a minimum. For pellet grills, that's where your smoke flavor is generated. PID controllers are extremely good at maintaining temperatures in pellet grills, but the downfall of a consistent temperature is the lack of smoke generation. I'll smoke a boston butt at a setpoint of 225, and the temp swing will go anywhere between 200-250. While that may seem like a lot, it was engineered that way to produce smoke. Grilla's mantra is "Trust the Swing". My OCD side balks at that, but my taste buds sure dont!! Just my :2cents:
Here's a video about the double-walled construction (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5QynB3w8ZU&t=2s)
And a video comparing the Silverbac to the Traeger Elite 34 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRwGZhWn0fM)
-
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pit-Boss-Austin-XL-1000-sq-in-Pellet-Grill-w-Flame-Broiler-Cooking-Probe/793230399
I have no experience with this grill but I have been researching and shopping pellet grills for months and this is hands down the best value in the pellet grill sector that I have come across. Mad by Louisiana grills if I am not mistaken.
But if I were looking at that 1k budget area, I would probably buy this
https://www.firecraft.com/product/firecraft-pellet-q450-pellet-grill
-
Hello,
My recommendation is the FireCraft Q-450. It's usually $995, but they currently have a sale price of $795. I have one, and like it. Here are my comments are your list of wants/needs:
Cost - even on the sale price it's at the high end of your price range, but if you buy it while on sale then you will get to a higher quality.
Big enough for a turkey - yes, I have cooked a whole turkey breast (turkey breast on the bone, but no legs, thighs, or wings). It easily fit, and should easily accommodate a whole turkey. I bet I could fit two of these whole breasts in there are once.
Temperature swings - I haven't studied this in great detail, but it seems to do better then my old Traeger.
Construction - stainless steel! This was one of the features that got me to buy it.
-
The camp chef dlx smoke pro is the same as the woodwind without the sear station. Although the double wall, heavy construction it is not. The Blazin Gridiron would really be a great fit, double walled, heavy construction, great features- price is right on the edge of your top end. Give them a call to see what Tim can do for you.
Sorry, the Gridiron is around $1400 with shipping. Over your budget. The Grand Slam is around #1200 shipped.
I would look at the Q450 on sale now for $799 including shipping. SS, pellet dump, searing capability. For the extra $200, you can get a cover and GrillGrates. Has a PID controller. Don't need a double wall. I suspect they are getting ready to release a newer model, but it will be more expensive.
-
I really like my GMC DB. It's in your price range even with the wifi. I really like the wifi. I can monitor pit temp (and change/calibrate it if necessary) and the food temp all from my couch.
-
Don
t rule out the pellet pro line, they have some different sizes you may find something close to the size you need. They run nice specials from time to time also.
-
Best bang for the buck category only at Walmart.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pit-Boss-Austin-XL-1000-sq-in-Pellet-Grill-w-Flame-Broiler-Cooking-Probe/793230399
Looks pretty good and well built. $500 if you pick it up.
-
I sold my RT-680 and went with the Firecraft Q-450. Keep in mind I had the original design Rec Tec unit. ( Painted, old controller, old igniter ) I think Rec Tec did the right thing when they redesigned their units. I like the looks of the Stampede and that would be on my radar if I was looking for a new unit. ( Though they may not ship until almost June. ) It's only minus in my book is that there still isn't the ability to grill over a direct flame. The Firecraft does everything I want it to do and I am very happy with it.
-
If there's an Academy Sports nearby, check out the Triton XL. Not as pretty as the Austin, but is bigger and has some interesting features, also $500.
-
ok, so I think I have things pretty narrowed down now:
REc-Tec Stampede: 592 sq inches, solid temp control, expensive and not shipping till nearly June
Rec-Tec 680: Bigger, even more expensive, but on sale as closeout at just within budget highest end
Grilla Silverbac: love the fact its cheaper, and it has a cabinet which seems nice. 507 sq inches is a bit bigger than the FireCraft 450. Stainless lid, insulated (but non-stainless) lower portion.
Firecraft 450: stainless, good sale, smallest
Piot Boss Austin XL: cheapest at 500 at Wal-Mart, I know nothing about its controls or construction and haven't heard much here
Anyone else I should add to the list? Which of these would you pick, or avoid, and why?
-
I should probably note: stainless is nice, it doesn't rust, but if folks have recommendations with finishes they know protect I don't need stainless, I just don't want a rusted-out box in 5 years....
-
The Silverbac has a beefy stainless lid, and the body is powder coated which will withstand heat and weathering far better than a painted surface. The Rec Tec is well built as well, though being considerably larger, is less fuel efficient. The Pit Boss uses considerably thinner gauge metal than both the Silverbac and the Rec Tec.
-
The Silverbac has a beefy stainless lid, and the body is powder coated which will withstand heat and weathering far better than a painted surface. The Rec Tec is well built as well, though being considerably larger, is less fuel efficient. The Pit Boss uses considerably thinner gauge metal than both the Silverbac and the Rec Tec.
What gauge is each of the 3 you mentioned? What information do you base your statement that: "The Rec Tec is well built as well, though being considerably larger, is less fuel efficient."?
-
The Silverbac has a beefy stainless lid, and the body is powder coated which will withstand heat and weathering far better than a painted surface. The Rec Tec is well built as well, though being considerably larger, is less fuel efficient. The Pit Boss uses considerably thinner gauge metal than both the Silverbac and the Rec Tec.
What gauge is each of the 3 you mentioned? What information do you base your statement that: "The Rec Tec is well built as well, though being considerably larger, is less fuel efficient."?
If I am ever in court, I want you on my side.
-
Andygev35 -- I am sorry, I was trying to reply to your post and I modified it and could not get it back so I deleted it. Sometimes I forget I am in admin mode. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the post and I apologize for my error. Please feel free to re-post.
-
Kristin - That was a oops. I was almost sure that I was the only one capable of such a thing. ;)
-
Andygev35 -- I am sorry, I was trying to reply to your post and I modified it and could not get it back so I deleted it. Sometimes I forget I am in admin mode. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the post and I apologize for my error. Please feel free to re-post.
No problem. I think it went something like this :
If memory serves, the Pit Boss is 18 gauge all around, the Silverbac is 16 gauge with a 12 gauge stainless steel lid, and the Rec Tec is 16 gauge all around. The reason I say the Rec Tec is less fuel efficient is simply due to the fact that the barrel is larger in volume. It'll take more fuel to heat it. It also doesn't offer double walled insulation which would make it less fuel efficient. Honestly the Pit Boss is more of a entry level grill than either the Rec Tec or Silverbac. But my opinions are just that; opinion. You'll need to decide what suits you best for your situation. There are countless satisfied customers of all three brands.
-
There is only one "backyard" Pellet Unit (I think this is correct) that is insulated. That is the PG1000, solid core insulation. Unless you mean that just being double walled with the "Air" between the walls is the insulation. Which I could understand, but is not "true" insulation in my mind. If the latter statement is what you are thinking, then there are 2 more that come to mind, the Memphis Line and The Blaz'n option on the lids!
As far as a larger chamber or lighter gauge steel making the unit Less efficient, or a heavier steel making the unit More efficient...I have not seen that in my 21 years using Pellet Units. Pellet usage usually comes down to 1st, the controller being used and air management, and the ambient weather conditions. Now does adding a double wall or a double wall and solid core insulation help that efficacy, in most (but not all) cases yes.
-
So knowing it can easily drop to zero or colder here in southern wisconsin, thoughts on efficiency of the grills mentioned?
-
There is only one "backyard" Pellet Unit (I think this is correct) that is insulated. That is the PG1000, solid core insulation. Unless you mean that just being double walled with the "Air" between the walls is the insulation. Which I could understand, but is not "true" insulation in my mind. If the latter statement is what you are thinking, then there are 2 more that come to mind, the Memphis Line and The Blaz'n option on the lids!
As far as a larger chamber or lighter gauge steel making the unit Less efficient, or a heavier steel making the unit More efficient...I have not seen that in my 21 years using Pellet Units. Pellet usage usually comes down to 1st, the controller being used and air management, and the ambient weather conditions. Now does adding a double wall or a double wall and solid core insulation help that efficacy, in most (but not all) cases yes.
Yes, I'm referring to the air gap between a double walled chamber. It absolutely qualifies as insulation. Consider a Yeti insulated tumbler. It uses this exact method of insulation and is one of the most efficient tumblers for maintaining temperatures.
As far as fuel efficiency, I have to respectfully disagree with you. The laws of physics require that a larger cooking chamber requires more fuel to heat it than a smaller chamber would. A good example would be the Original Grilla vs the Grilla Silverbac. The Original Grilla, which has a smaller cooking chamber than the Silverbac, has been shown to be 10% more fuel efficient than the Silverbac using identical controllers and fans. Now please don't misunderstand me. My point isn't to beat the drum for Grilla Grills. I'm simply pointing out the differences between two grills of the same manufacturer. If there are fuel efficiency differences between grills of the same manufacturer, the same must be true of other grills as well.
-
Initial heating and continued heat are two different things. Very rarely, unless external forces are acting upon it, does the same amount of energy need to maintain a unit as to get it to a set point. And as I stated earlier, the Number 1 reason for fuel efficacy is the controller!
Now please don't misunderstand me. My point isn't to beat the drum for Grilla Grills. I'm simply pointing out the differences between two grills of the same manufacturer.
And as a guy that has run pellet forums for about 12 years...just so you know how some perceive you...After your last few posts, this is exactly what I am thinking, I am wondering what affiliation you have with the company?
-
And as a guy that has run pellet forums for about 12 years...just so you know how some perceive you...After your last few posts, this is exactly what I am thinking, I am wondering what affiliation you have with the company?
I'm sorry if I came across that way. I've only been a pellet grill owner for three months. I did research on pellet grills for over a year before actually pulling the trigger on one, so I can only speak of my limited experience and satisfaction with mine, along with the information overload that I subjected myself to once I made my choice. I am in no way affiliated with any company whatsoever. My apologies if I've offended anyone.
-
Fan boys are OK...Dealers are another story! Thanks for taking the time to respond!
-
If someone is going to plunk down $800 for a new pellet grill, pellet consumption, especially if you're mainly doing low n' slow, shouldn't be an issue. The difference between a Silverbac and an Austin shouldn't be more than a few ounces an hour, and $200 - $300 buys a whole lot of pellets, especially if you get a trusted brand of heating pellets..... :2cents:
-
ok, so I think I have things pretty narrowed down now:
REc-Tec Stampede: 592 sq inches, solid temp control, expensive and not shipping till nearly June
Rec-Tec 680: Bigger, even more expensive, but on sale as closeout at just within budget highest end
Grilla Silverbac: love the fact its cheaper, and it has a cabinet which seems nice. 507 sq inches is a bit bigger than the FireCraft 450. Stainless lid, insulated (but non-stainless) lower portion.
Firecraft 450: stainless, good sale, smallest
Piot Boss Austin XL: cheapest at 500 at Wal-Mart, I know nothing about its controls or construction and haven't heard much here
Anyone else I should add to the list? Which of these would you pick, or avoid, and why?
Austin XL does not appear to be a PID. So while it is a big bang for buck, I am inclined to go for the q450 at the current sale price. My only criticisms are that the SS is 430 and can rust under certain circumstances, esp. in salt air and the grill grates are steel with nickel coating, and also will eventually rust. How long that would take, I do not know. Since I live in a dryer, non-salty atmosphere, I would go for the Q450, and have a way to convert the grill grates to SS if the need arrises.
-
IMHO - the insert inside grills like is in the bottom of the Silverbac , isn't really so much 'dual wall'... I mean in some sense it is, but I believe the main benefit of that is related to if/when your grill overheats or you run it really hot, that insert thing will act like a shield to keep the outer portion of your grill from blistering or discoloring... it doesn't do all that much to provide insulation IMHO.
FYI, Fast Eddy's PG500 has a dual wall around the firebox area ( left hand side, bellow the direct grilling area, right were all the heat comes from )... I'm 99.9999% certain that the reason this area has dual walls, is because if it didn't the exterior of the grill near there would become very very hot and very likely would discolor badly when you run the grill anywhere near it's maximum temperature. However, this dual wall area, probably does very little to improve efficiency of the grill.
Anyway, I don't consider anything less than dual wall throughout the entire grill to be dual walled construction. But that's just me.
As for 430 stainless rusting... cheap stuff sure can, but unless you live like directly on the coast or something, I'd suggest that there's not much wrong with using 430 SS on the exterior of a grill... There may be some good arguments for running 304 SS for some of the internal components , but I see very little good reason to use the more expensive 304 SS everywhere. I've got a old propane grill that's sat outside through about 8 Michigan winters ( spring, summer, and fall too ) and it has only very minimal surface rust that is easily removed with something like Barkeepers friend... So, I don't buy into this idea that if it ain't 304 SS, then it ain't no good for a grill...
Personally, I just simply can't recommend the Firecraft Q450... I may be the only former owner that feels this way about it, but I didn't find it to preform to my satisfaction.
-
IMHO - the insert inside grills like is in the bottom of the Silverbac , isn't really so much 'dual wall'... I mean in some sense it is, but I believe the main benefit of that is related to if/when your grill overheats or you run it really hot, that insert thing will act like a shield to keep the outer portion of your grill from blistering or discoloring... it doesn't do all that much to provide insulation IMHO.
I think it probably does exactly what you're describing, which in and of itself is a good thing, but would be better described as having a lower heat shield rather than dual walled insulation. Good point.
-
IMHO - the insert inside grills like is in the bottom of the Silverbac , isn't really so much 'dual wall'... I mean in some sense it is, but I believe the main benefit of that is related to if/when your grill overheats or you run it really hot, that insert thing will act like a shield to keep the outer portion of your grill from blistering or discoloring... it doesn't do all that much to provide insulation IMHO.
FYI, Fast Eddy's PG500 has a dual wall around the firebox area ( left hand side, bellow the direct grilling area, right were all the heat comes from )... I'm 99.9999% certain that the reason this area has dual walls, is because if it didn't the exterior of the grill near there would become very very hot and very likely would discolor badly when you run the grill anywhere near it's maximum temperature. However, this dual wall area, probably does very little to improve efficiency of the grill.
Anyway, I don't consider anything less than dual wall throughout the entire grill to be dual walled construction. But that's just me.
As for 430 stainless rusting... cheap stuff sure can, but unless you live like directly on the coast or something, I'd suggest that there's not much wrong with using 430 SS on the exterior of a grill... There may be some good arguments for running 304 SS for some of the internal components , but I see very little good reason to use the more expensive 304 SS everywhere. I've got a old propane grill that's sat outside through about 8 Michigan winters ( spring, summer, and fall too ) and it has only very minimal surface rust that is easily removed with something like Barkeepers friend... So, I don't buy into this idea that if it ain't 304 SS, then it ain't no good for a grill...
Personally, I just simply can't recommend the Firecraft Q450... I may be the only former owner that feels this way about it, but I didn't find it to preform to my satisfaction.
In what way(s) did the q450 not meet your expectations?
-
It was a particularly cold winter in Minnesota this year and I’m sure I used more pellets than usual but to be honest it really wasn’t something I considered when I was looking at different pellet smokers.
Some folks just throw a welding blanket over the top.
I ended up making a spreadsheet with several different models breaking down the different categories. Cost, main cooking area, hopper size, warranty, WiFi etc.
For me it came down to cost, cooking area, warranty and to a lesser extent, hopper size. The 680 hopper is overkill but for long overnight brisket cooks it provides piece of mind.
At the time I felt like the 680 hit all my targets for the right price.
-
so now my new question is auger fires and pellet drops vs spitting right into the firebox--is this a thing to worry about? If so which brands have a better auger/delivery system?
-
It can happen on almost any pellet grill regardless of delivery system... I would not worry that much about it... if it were a major problem on a grill you'd likely already have heard about it.
-
so now my new question is auger fires and pellet drops vs spitting right into the firebox--is this a thing to worry about? If so which brands have a better auger/delivery system?
Usually an auger involved with the pellet drop type also. Only difference is that the auger does not directly load into the firepot, but rather dumps onto a slide, which then falls (slides) into your pot or burn trough. Usually the fire will not be able to reach back up where the auger drop occurs. However======? Pro's and Con's for both. I think either would be fine with me if I knew how to avoid the problems ahead of time.
My idea for the perfect trouble free pit would be:
1. All 304 SS body and grill grates (Costs more BUT costs less to produce since there is no cost for powder coating, Actually removes a major portion of time and expense in finishing)
2. PID controller with meat probe and auto shut down when temp is met
3. Fire pot dump mechanism, easy to operate between cooks without dismantling the pit.
4. Pellet slide feeding the fire pot/trough
5. Direct flame capability with easy mechanism
6. 20 to 30 lb pellet hopper with pellet dump
7. Shelves underneath, and in front of lid
8. Heavy duty fans and motors, wiring etc
9. locking swivel wheels
10. All the above for less than $1500 delivered.????? Bet it could be done for less
AM I DREAMING?
-
The Q-450 are 304 bodies now
-
The Q-450 are 304 bodies now
Some confusion on my part. I now see that the China made units are now 304 SS bodies. Grill grates are still coated steel. I saw this info on Meatheads forum, but not on the Q450 website. Anyhow, good news for those interested in this unit.
-
The Q-450 are 304 bodies now
Haven't seen any official statements of that... I personally question why they would do that... the cost to do it, loss of profit, or cost to pass on to customers just seem to great to make it worth doing. You'd think that if it really was now made out of all 304 Stainless that it would be something they'd proudly have updated on their web site... But , well their web site seems to have fallen into a state of decline... they went from selling many brands of grills and related products, to only selling their own grill, and some wood pellets that appear to be rebranded BBQrs Delight...
-
The Q-450 are 304 bodies now
Haven't seen any official statements of that... I personally question why they would do that... the cost to do it, loss of profit, or cost to pass on to customers just seem to great to make it worth doing. You'd think that if it really was now made out of all 304 Stainless that it would be something they'd proudly have updated on their web site... But , well their web site seems to have fallen into a state of decline... they went from selling many brands of grills and related products, to only selling their own grill, and some wood pellets that appear to be rebranded BBQrs Delight...
Saw that comment on Amazing Ribs on their review area. I think there is too much mystery around this, so I will just observe for now. Your comments appear reasonable.
-
I was at a dealer in the north Dallas area yesterday. They carry Memphis, Pitts and Spits, GMG and Firecraft. Saw my first Firecraft in person. The sign they had on it said 304 and "Made in America" so something there was wrong if the above is true. Looking it over took I took it off my short list. The grill area seemed slightly smaller compared to the GMG DB (now top of my list) and the lid seemed very lightweight. The grates are nice and heavy-duty though. It looks like a very good grill and I like the direct flame insert, it's just not for me at this time. They had a model with a slight dent for $699 in their scratch and dent section. Was very tempted. Agree with the web site comments and also disappointed still no side shelf option. It does have mount points inside for a future second grid.
-
The Q-450 are 304 bodies now
Haven't seen any official statements of that... I personally question why they would do that... the cost to do it, loss of profit, or cost to pass on to customers just seem to great to make it worth doing. You'd think that if it really was now made out of all 304 Stainless that it would be something they'd proudly have updated on their web site... But , well their web site seems to have fallen into a state of decline... they went from selling many brands of grills and related products, to only selling their own grill, and some wood pellets that appear to be rebranded BBQrs Delight...
I'm skeptical myself. Just took a magnet to my stainless LG fridge and it wouldn't stick. Placed it on the Firecraft and it stuck.
-
The Q-450 are 304 bodies now
Haven't seen any official statements of that... I personally question why they would do that... the cost to do it, loss of profit, or cost to pass on to customers just seem to great to make it worth doing. You'd think that if it really was now made out of all 304 Stainless that it would be something they'd proudly have updated on their web site... But , well their web site seems to have fallen into a state of decline... they went from selling many brands of grills and related products, to only selling their own grill, and some wood pellets that appear to be rebranded BBQrs Delight...
I'm skeptical myself. Just took a magnet to my stainless LG fridge and it wouldn't stick. Placed it on the Firecraft and it stuck.
That's what I would do to check. Good reporting!.
-
did it, got the woodwind
-
Congrats on your new cooker. Looking forward to hearing and seeing all your future great cooks.
-
Nice! Can’t wait to see you put the Woodwind to good use! The searing box IMO is a major selling point...it’s a brilliant idea... very surprised that other manufacturers aren’t (at least yet) doing the same.
-
Oh yeah, you will enjoy cooking on, and the features of that unit! Are you going to add the sear box at some point?
-
the home depot sale the other day was $719 for the full woodwind w searbox unit.
I had been looking really hard at the rec tec or grilla, the fact this hit 200 bucks less than the stampede and/or gave me a searbox for $20 over the Grilla, depending on our point of reference, pushed me forward on this one....
-
Woodwind with Sear Box...>$800...Mega Deal!
-
the woodwind is what i am recommending to a friend for his first pellet grill as he has eaten food off my grills but has only ever cooked on a gas grill.