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All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: BC Buck on February 17, 2019, 06:15:38 PM

Title: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: BC Buck on February 17, 2019, 06:15:38 PM
When brisket hit internal temp of 155 I put in foil pan and covered with Reynolds foil. Put in oven for about 4 hours to finish at 205 internal temp. When I was checking meat temp I noticed a spot in foil about 1" in diameter.Had bunch pin holes with 1/4" hole in center and spot felt like it was falling apart. I could see the spot where foil was touching meat and had off color look. The seasoning was Oakridge Black Ops. My thought was the salt and some kind of electrolysis. Any of you every have this happen?
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on February 17, 2019, 06:37:57 PM
Aluminum pan and aluminum foil.  Hmmm.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 17, 2019, 06:45:35 PM
i've seen same thing when i leave food in pan and put in fridge
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on February 17, 2019, 07:56:52 PM
This is intriguing.  A ¼" hole and pin holes.  Where did that aluminum go?

I'm looking around the Internet and can't find anything.

Edit:  Removed extraneous characters generated by system update.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on February 17, 2019, 08:14:55 PM
I found this.  I don't know if it's sensationalism or even a qualified authority.  http://theconversation.com/why-you-shouldnt-wrap-your-food-in-aluminium-foil-before-cooking-it-57220 (http://theconversation.com/why-you-shouldnt-wrap-your-food-in-aluminium-foil-before-cooking-it-57220)

A couple of quotes–

Edit:  Removed extraneous characters generated by system update.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: BigDave83 on February 17, 2019, 08:29:37 PM
I also believe it is he salts  and the steam that are in direct contact with the the foil. I cover my butts with foil after I put them in my meat lug and  get small holes n the foil. Never had an issue when wrapping cold meats with rub, only hot.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: dclord on February 18, 2019, 01:14:01 AM
I've seen that kind of thing with pizza and tomato based food wrapped and left in the fridge over night, but not with anything else.

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Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: BC Buck on February 18, 2019, 06:43:43 AM
This is intriguing.  A ¼” hole and pin holes.  Where did that aluminum go?

I'm looking around the Internet and can't find anything.
The spot where the foil was touching meat had a aluminum tint to it.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: Clonesmoker on February 18, 2019, 08:52:31 AM
I haven't foiled during a cook in a long time.  The only time I will wrap with foil will be if I am going to wait a few hours before serving. I will foil, wrap with a towel and put it into a cooler. The only thing I have noticed when I unwrap is the discoloration of the foil.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: ZCZ on February 18, 2019, 12:40:42 PM
I found this.  I don’t know if it's sensationalism or even a qualified authority.  http://theconversation.com/why-you-shouldnt-wrap-your-food-in-aluminium-foil-before-cooking-it-57220 (http://theconversation.com/why-you-shouldnt-wrap-your-food-in-aluminium-foil-before-cooking-it-57220)

A couple of quotes–
  • “Aluminium [sic] is significantly more likely to leach into food, and at higher levels, in acidic and liquid food solutions like lemon and tomato juice than in those containing alcohol or salt. Leaching levels climb even more when spice is added to food that’s cooked in aluminium [sic] foil. Anything acidic sparks a particularly aggressive process that dissolves layers of aluminium [sic] into food.

    “This research suggests that aluminium [sic] foil should not be used for cooking.”
  • “Scientists are exploring whether over-exposure to aluminium [sic] may be posing threats to human health. For instance, high concentrations of aluminium [sic] have been detected in the brain tissue of patients with Alzheimer’s disease.”

Why I am thinking of switching to parchment paper instead of foil when I do ribs.
Z
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on February 18, 2019, 01:13:24 PM
Why I am thinking of switching to parchment paper instead of foil when I do ribs.

I am, too, as of yesterday.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: yorkdude on February 18, 2019, 03:47:40 PM
I have not tried this but I am pretty darn sure you can use plastic wrap as long as it is against the food, covered in aluminum foil and not above 220º-250º.
Not sure how it works but I have seen it done.
The moisture from the food on one side as well as the foil protection on the other somehow spares it.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: ZCZ on February 18, 2019, 04:39:13 PM
Why I am thinking of switching to parchment paper instead of foil when I do ribs.

I am, too, as of yesterday.

i experimented with it when I was practicing for the 2015 Royal.  It actually does a good job of holding in juices.  The problem becomes trying to seal it up.  i was folding it over and stapling the ends shut.  During my prep this summer for the Royal I will give it a try and post results with pictures.  It is more difficult to work with than tin foil - but just like they say you should not cook food on your stove in aluminum pans I would think the same should hold true of tin foil.  Especially after reading what we read here.

Z
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on February 18, 2019, 09:08:28 PM
...but just like they say you should not cook food on your stove in aluminum pans I would think the same should hold true of tin foil.  Especially after reading what we read here.

Z

Another web site addressed aluminum pots and pans.  The article said that they normally build a seasoning-like layer, mostly made up of aluminum oxide and they shouldn't pose a threat to leach aluminum into food.  The article cautioned against scouring them beck to shineyness and exposing raw aluminum.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on March 08, 2019, 02:34:57 PM
Why I am thinking of switching to parchment paper instead of foil when I do ribs.

I've been reading about alternatives to aluminum foil.  It appears that pink butcher paper may be the best.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: glitchy on March 08, 2019, 03:24:33 PM
I've only done a dozen or so briskets in my life and only like 3 with butcher paper, but I've been happiest with it vs foil or no wrapping at all. To me, it seems to keep things more moist than not wrapping, but doesn't completely ruin the bark like foil does. I don't staple, tape, or tie, I just double wrap it going two different directions. It works well on chuck roast too for shredded beef.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on March 10, 2019, 11:20:05 AM
BC Buck, you created a small battery, a cell, and the electric current running through it etched away one of the battery's electrodes.

Do an Internet search on beware the lasagna cell.  There's your answer.

Pink butcher paper looks better and better to me.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: BC Buck on March 10, 2019, 12:10:32 PM
BC Buck, you created a small battery, a cell, and the electric current running through it etched away one of the battery's electrodes.

Do an Internet search on beware the lasagna cell.  There's your answer.

Pink butcher paper looks better and better to me.
Have never used butcher paper but looks like would be tough not to loose most of the juices. What is difference in pink and white paper.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 10, 2019, 12:39:28 PM
BC Buck, you created a small battery, a cell, and the electric current running through it etched away one of the battery's electrodes.

Do an Internet search on beware the lasagna cell.  There's your answer.

Pink butcher paper looks better and better to me.
Have never used butcher paper but looks like would be tough not to loose most of the juices. What is difference in pink and white paper.

Adam Franklin uses butcher paper everyday at his business.  I think you can be assured you won't lose most of the juices.  I have a roll in the garage but have never used it.  Haven't made a brisket in a few years either.  I do plan to try it.  Others on here have, and I think they will never switch back to foil.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on March 10, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
What is difference in pink and white paper.

IDK.   :)

But in the things I read, either butcher paper or sometimes pink butcher paper is specified.  I've not used either.  We used brown butcher paper, waxed on one side, in my dad's butcher shop 60 years ago.

The Times They Are A-Changin'
                              Bob Dylan
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 10, 2019, 04:30:23 PM
i believe they recommend not using any that has wax on it
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: glitchy on March 10, 2019, 05:43:51 PM
White is bleached, pink or tannish is usually natural I believe.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: Fire708 on March 12, 2019, 11:16:44 AM
The aluminum/ Alzheimer’s antiperspirant stuff was debunked a long time ago. The elevated levels were caused by preserving the tissue samples in that study. The bad thing is aluminum is a toxin and it’s still being studied. Aluminum doesn’t seem to cross into the brain very well but low levels screw with neurotransmitters and may cause problems. My son is a neurologist, it’s what he’s doing research on right now. He cooks with aluminum but now I have to ask him what he thinks of the corrosion area in BC’s example. I’m forgetful enough as is so I’m not gonna speed things up.

Either way I never leave food in contact with metals very long. Especially salty or acidic foods. Once in a while it seems to throw the taste off and if you have non coated cookware, it can stain the metal. I stick to glass for storage.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on March 12, 2019, 01:36:56 PM
My opinion continues to evolve.  Right now I'm thinking that butcher paper, parchment paper or a Reynolds oven bag inside the foil wrap will ease my concerns.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: Fire708 on March 12, 2019, 05:02:03 PM
Well,
My son just linked me some interesting research he found. Long story short he no longer cooks with foil or foil pans. He still uses his aluminum pots / pans since their anodized and coated.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21157018
http://www.electrochemsci.org/papers/vol7/7054498.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sadettin_Turhan/publication/285200416_Aluminium_contents_in_baked_meats_wrapped_in_aluminium_foil/links/565c547608ae4988a7bb6a91/Aluminium-contents-in-baked-meats-wrapped-in-aluminium-foil.pdf

He did add that it’s still unknown if the high levels are the cause of Alzheimer’s or a result of the changes from Alzheimer’s.

I’m in pmillien’s camp 100%. Other thatbwrapping ribs I seldem cook with foil and wil start substituting butcher paper.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: glitchy on March 13, 2019, 02:01:34 AM
My guess is you’ll like the results with butcher paper, Ive definitely encountered a better bark since switching.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: hughver on March 13, 2019, 02:04:49 PM
I use aluminum pans with a foil top seal. The highest pit temperature that I use with these pans is 250°. My issue with either foil on butcher paper is the ease of adding and/or preserving juices. These pans are widely used  at much higher temperatures and, as far as I know, not been cited for contamination.  :2cents:
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on April 29, 2024, 02:37:32 PM
The last several things I've smoked have beed wrapped in aluminum foil.  I've never had the development described in this thread so I went back to it.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: BigDave83 on April 29, 2024, 06:30:44 PM
I still wrap the top of buys when I take them out of the cooker, with foil because I usually forget to plastic it first. I still get the hole sin the foil that touched the meat, no matter what foil i use. Name brand or cheaper heavy duty foil or the regular thickness foil. But if I plastic then foil for the rest the foil is unharmed. So I am still thinking it is the reaction to the foil from the heat and salts in the rubs.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: pmillen on April 30, 2024, 11:17:38 AM
I had been wrapping briskets in paper first and then foil.  But the last few times I just used foil.  There's not been a galvanic reaction salt corrosion so I haven't been concerned.

BigDave, I wonder if I haven't seen any galvanic reactions salt corrosion because my rub has fused into bark when I wrap.  Perhaps yours is not as formed, more like the rub when you first put it on.

EDIT:  Corrected my nomenclature after thinking about it more.  It isn't bimetal corrosion.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: BigDave83 on April 30, 2024, 12:23:25 PM
could be, maybe different salt contents also. I would wonder if wrapping the meat tightly as opposed to my just covering the meat lug with 2 hot pork butts may play a part in it. Mine will have more moisture gathered at the top where the meat contacts the foil.

Not really sure, when I first started actually noticing it, I just figured salt is corrosive and it is even worse on aluminum when it is wet, factor in the warm humid environment I just subjected the foil to and that caused my pin holes.
Title: Re: Seasoning corroded hole through tin foil.
Post by: BC Buck on May 11, 2024, 08:04:53 AM
Ribs wrapped, Iv never had happen. Every time in aluminum tray covered with foil. Last Saturday brisket one hole off to side and don't think was touching meat. Could be different rubs.