Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Non food Related => Topic started by: Bentley on February 20, 2019, 11:43:33 AM
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Always curious. I hate cooking with gas! And that is what I have.
And if you choose gas, would you tell me how you simmer something, without burning it, with a constant heat source?
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Just turn the flame down low. ::)
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We've got electric now but I prefer gas - it heats up so much faster. Newer gas cooktops usually have one burner dedicated to slow/simmering. It either has a smaller flame and/or uses a thermostat to sense the temp and turn the burner on and off.
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Gas here. If the heat is too high w/ the flame as low as it will go, switch to a smaller burner..I find that food cooked in a gas oven gas oven tastes better than electric... Although not related to the question of
heat control, I rate the taste of the food cooked from a low-electric, gas next, then charcoal and at the top, wood.
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I have a very small burner, you cant simmer for long periods with items that will burn with a constant heat source. And if you know how please let me know. But saying using a smaller flame or a smaller burner, does not work in my experience. You need a pulsating heat source like electricity!
Why do you think chefs simmer on a flat top? So they can move the item being simmer to lower heat areas!
Newer gas cooktops usually have one burner dedicated to slow/simmering...or uses a thermostat to sense the temp and turn the burner on and off.
This makes sense, but they did not have this 5 years ago! Or at least they did not in my price range!
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>This makes sense, but they did not have this 5 years ago! Or at least they did not in my price range!
Yeah, they're not cheap. Our friends have one on their range - I think it's a Thermador.
Have you tried a diffuser? https://www.amazon.com/Diffuser-Stove-Electric-Flame-Simmer/dp/B07664Z2MN
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I have a very small burner, you cant simmer for long periods with items that will burn with a constant heat source. And if you know how please let me know. But saying using a smaller flame or a smaller burner, does not work in my experience. You need a pulsating heat source like electricity!
Why do you think chefs simmer on a flat top? So they can move the item being simmer to lower heat areas!
Newer gas cooktops usually have one burner dedicated to slow/simmering...or uses a thermostat to sense the temp and turn the burner on and off.
This makes sense, but they did not have this 5 years ago! Or at least they did not in my price range!
Try removing the control knob for the smallest size burner, in the center of the knob shaft you should see a very small straight slot screw, that should allow you to further turn down that flame. They are usually on every burner.
We just got a new gas range and I had to adjust all of them, simmers perfectly now.
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I have only cooked on a electric heating element stove a few times, I never got the hang of it. With gas, I can look at the burner and get a pretty good idea of how hot it's going to get the pan. At this point in time, I prefer gas.
I said in another thread, I do have a small induction cooktop ( single burner, portable , 1500 watts). I love it for simmering things, and that was the original reason I got it. At that time, I had a DCS Gas Range, with big cast iron burners and it was virtually impossible to simmer anything on that stovetop. DCS was a new company when I bought my stove, it was about half the price of other stoves of similar quality/build, and I had just built a new house, so that was my splurge on my kitchen.
Well , after a house flood a few years back, my DCS range was not working correctly, having had replacement policy on my belongings, I was able to replace it with a Thermador gas range, with their 'star burners'. I can simmer on my Thermador, but the only way you can, is because it turns the burner on and off on the 'simmer' settings. The burner will turn off, then a few seconds later, it will turn on again , it uses piezoelectric igniters to start the gas up each time it turns on. It's kind of amazing how quickly it ignites, and works. However, I'm still not truly comfortable leaving it run like that for a long period of time, particularly if I'm not standing right near it, to try and 'catch' it if it should malfunction.
So, even though I have a Gas stove that can actually cook at a simmer, I still use a induction cook surface to simmer on most of the time.
I forget who has it, but one of the high end gas range makers, had a burner that basically had two rings, it would run both for high BTU cooking, but would only run one small inner ring for lower temperatures. Not sure exactly how well that works, but it seemed intriguing at least.
For me, I've really grown to love induction cooking for low temperatures. I'm not sure I'd want to switch to nothing but induction for cooking on a stove top, but it actually is really interesting to cook on.
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Never seen a diffuser for a gas range, will have to look into it. I still think with constant heat it would not solve my problem, but it is worth a try. Thank you, and all for the responses!
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Never seen a diffuser for a gas range, will have to look into it. I still think with constant heat it would not solve my problem, but it is worth a try. Thank you, and all for the responses!
Yeah, they work pretty good - something like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07664Z2MN
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I've never had a problem simmering but I bought one of those anyway, looks like a good idea. ???
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An additional problem for us is that we don't cook on gas, which is what is piped into most residential kitchens which use gas for stove tops. We cook on propane. We even had to buy appliances that were special for propane and not gas At the time, I was advised that propane cooks hotter than gas. I truly despise it. I wish I had an induction cook top.
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Yep, propane burns hotter than natural gas. I think that's the heart of your problem.
As an aside: Methane, 1 carbon atom per molecule
Ethane, 2 carbon atoms per molecule
Propane, 3 carbon atoms per molecule
Butane, 4 carbon atoms per molecule
And on and on...
Each one burns hotter than the previous but requires more oxygen to completely burn.
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I use propane also, all I ever cooked on. I have a 6 burner Sunfire stove I can cook on it but others seem to have issues trying to simmer on it. Not sure I would like an electric stove. I had a small induction burner that I gave away, I am thinking of buying a larger one. I did like it for when I made candy.
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I've never cooked with gas other than camping, bbq, or search and rescue. My home stove is electric. It's glass top, and has burners that regulate heat by probe. In that, I mean that the burners fluctuate on and off to maintain a consistent temp.
I understand that there are millions of gas appliances in use daily, but it still scares me.
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When I cooked with propane, simmering was out of the question. A friend gave me one of these and it really helped.
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Gas adjusts more quickly. You need to allow electric time to cool down. I have had both and much prefer gas.
As far as fear of gas, I will not work on gas myself due to the safety factors. I will bring in an expert to do any gas work that is necessary.
It is kind of like plumbing I do myself. I have to leave a pail underneath for a couple of weeks while I wait for the pipe to stop leaking.
I can't catch gas in a pail.
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We specified a natural gas (methane) kitchen range because we preferred it. Simmering without burning is easy, especially since I have an infinitely adjustable heat source. And when I turn it off, it's off. There's no red-hot coil slowly cooling down and continuing to add heat to the pan. Even thicker sauces, like pasta sauce, simmer without burning (although I confess I'm in the habit of periodic stirring).
The oven is convection and is controlled in such a way that the gas flame reduces as it approaches the setting. From that point on it varies up and down to maintain an accurate temperature. I suspect that it's a PID.
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An additional problem for us is that we don't cook on gas, which is what is piped into most residential kitchens which use gas for stove tops. We cook on propane. We even had to buy appliances that were special for propane and not gas At the time, I was advised that propane cooks hotter than gas. I truly despise it. I wish I had an induction cook top.
This brings back memories. My mom inherited a fairly new "gas stove" from her mom in New Jersey. We moved to Maryland a few years later and it was only bottled propane there. The stove ran on propane without any modifications. My mom loved the even heating of a gas oven. She refused to be converted to electric.
We spec'd a gas cooktop for our current home. My wife makes a lot of soup on our cook top that requires a lot of simmering. All of our pots are thick bottomed to distribute the heat.
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This brings back memories. My mom inherited a fairly new "gas stove" from her mom in New Jersey. We moved to Maryland a few years later and it was only bottled propane there. The stove ran on propane without any modifications.
That's unusual. Natural gas and propane normally require different gas jets.
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This brings back memories. My mom inherited a fairly new "gas stove" from her mom in New Jersey. We moved to Maryland a few years later and it was only bottled propane there. The stove ran on propane without any modifications.
That's unusual. Natural gas and propane normally require different gas jets.
As well as a different spring in regulator or different regulator altogether.
At least that's how we have had to do ours.
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In my opinion:
Induction>>Gas>>>>Electric (I cannot answer the poll if you lump induction in with electric)
Induction should not be lumped in with electric, although they share the same fuel source. They are not the same by any stretch of the imagination. I have cooked with all 3 and induction is my favorite by far. Induction has higher highs and lower lows than gas. The heat in the bottom of the pan is much more evenly distributed with induction compared to gas. 90% to 95% of the energy you buy goes right into the bottom of the pan with induction. 50% to 60% of the gas you buy goes right around the pan and heats the kitchen, which is fine during the winter but really sucks during the summer when your air conditioner has to cool the same air back down. Because the induction burner does not produce heat itself, it is much easier to clean than gas or standard electric. Induction has the same instant off like gas. When you turn induction or gas off on a pot about to boil over, both stop boiling immediately, unlike standard electric. Induction is very repeatable and by that I mean if setting 4.5 is correct for frying protein, every time you walk up to the range you can set it to 4.5 and start cooking, without worrying about it getting too hot or not hot enough. With gas you set it where you think you did last time, look at the flame and adjust to the correct flame, start cooking and then adjust again if it gets too hot or not hot enough.
From an actual cooking standpoint gas and induction are on par with one another with a slight nod to induction for the higher highs and lower lows, and better repeat-ability and more evenly distributed heat source, in my opinion. From a cleaning standpoint, induction all the way.
Bentley, Have you considered using one of those round cast iron griddles on the burner and then putting the pan you want to simmer with on the cast iron griddle? It would act much like the flat top used in commercial kitchens. All they are is a gas burner under a 1/2" to 3/4" plate steel.
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Gas adjusts more quickly. You need to allow electric time to cool down. I have had both and much prefer gas.
This is not true for induction, which is lumped in with electric at the moment. Induction adjusts just as fast as gas, in every aspect.
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This brings back memories. My mom inherited a fairly new "gas stove" from her mom in New Jersey. We moved to Maryland a few years later and it was only bottled propane there. The stove ran on propane without any modifications.
That's unusual. Natural gas and propane normally require different gas jets.
As well as a different spring in regulator or different regulator altogether.
At least that's how we have had to do ours.
Yup. I was surprised too. My Kirkland BBQ grill was shipped with the conversion kit. My mom's stove was from the late 50's and it was switched to bottled gas in the early 60's.
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You and I are definitely gonna part ways on this one, BentMan.
I used to cook on a glass top electric and I HATED it.
Trying to regulate the heat was a ridiculous project. When we remodeled our kitchen I had a natural gas line installed at location of the range and went with a GE gas range. Ahh. Life is beautiful again.
I refuse to believe that you actually prefer a electric stovetop compared to a gas range. And you ask, How do I simmer things? I turn the burner down to a tiny whisper and simmer away. How simple is that!
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IMHO, Induction reacts even faster then gas. ( and definitely should not be lumped in with electric ).
It's crazy how fast induction changes temperature. I don't fully understand why it's so much faster than gas, but do understand some of the theories. The induction actually causes the metal in the bottom of the pan to heat, not the surface of the stove itself, and not even the bottom surface of the pan, but potentially the entire thickness of the magnetic part of the bottom of the pan. With gas, the flames heat up the bottom of the pan, and the metal that the pan sits on, the heat travels from the outer surface from the bottom of the pan, through the thickness of the pan, to where it makes contact with the food. On Induction, the entire magnetic base of the pan becomes hot, due to the magnetic forces. If I boil a bot of water on my natural gas burner, it might take 5 to 10 seconds for the bubbles to stop coming off the bottom inner surface of the pan. With Induction, if I turn off the burner while boiling water, the bubbles seem to disappear almost instantly , I mean like less than 2 seconds. Now, my gas stove has cast iron burner grates, so those must retain heat and keep the bottom of the pan warm longer, or something. All I know for sure, is I'm 100% convinced, induction cooktop is capable of changing temperature seen at the cooking surface of a pan far more rapidly than gas burner/flames can.
Only reasons I'm not 100% ready to switch from Gas to Induction are... I can get higher BTU output from my gas stove than I can with most induction burners. And, if I lift a pan off a gas stove burner by a inch or two, the pan doesn't instantly start to cool, with induction , if you lift the pan off the surface by even one inch, the pan starts to cool very very quickly. So, I still prefer gas for some cooking. I love induction, but not for everything.
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Have two glass tops and will NEVER again. There sell is easy to keep clean. The problem is then the metal pans heat they expand. The bottom of cookware bows out and its like cooking on a bowling ball. Also your pan is making partial contact with element and you get poor heat transfer. I have spent a fortune on expensive cookware designed for glass top with no luck.
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>I have spent a fortune on expensive
>cookware designed for glass top with no luck.
We've had a ceramic cooktop for almost 20 years, and I'm not crazy about it, mostly for the reason you stated. But we've got several Scanpans and never had a warp problem with them - after close to 15 years, the skillets are still perfectly flat. They're expensive but I like the way they perform - give them a try if you haven't already and plan on keeping the glass top.
When we had natural gas plumbed to our outside bbq area, I also had the plumber install gas-line in the cabinet under the cooktop in hope we would get a gas cooktop - but we haven't been able to find a decent one that would fit into the space. Now I'm thinking about switching to induction, but have never tried it.
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I prefer gas mostly due to feeling it is easier to regulate the heat while cooking either very high or very low. I do not have any issues with my gas stove top simmering at low temps. My Mother in Law has always had electric ranges, and I really do not like cooking on the electric stoves. It is what you get used to I guess.
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Interesting. I haven't seen any pan failures yet with my induction cooktop. But then, I don't use mine full time, it really mainly gets used for simmering , and once a week or so, to boil 9 quarts of water in a 16 quart kettle/pot.
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There is radiant heat glass top and induction heat glass top. For induction, you have to use only certain pans. I had radiant heat glass top in Pasadena for 15 years and loved it. Never any issues with pans. Would love to have an induction.
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Love this thread. We had a gas stove in our old house for 12+ years after cooking on the old coil electric before. I loved it. Our current house has a radiant glass/ceramic topic electric that is builder grade and over ten years old now. I'm suspecting that it's not going to last too much longer as a couple of the burners don't seem to get as hot as they did and the switch on the 2 size burner doesn't always work. My wife has asked if we can switch to gas when we do replace it. What's funny is she will admit that she rarely cooks and she usually cleans up after I make a mess on it. So, I know gas is better than radiant electric since it's much more difficult to clean.
However, I've been eyeing induction for a while because I don't want to mess with gas lines myself or pay $500-1000 to have it piped into the kitchen for a stove. I replaced our old pans with multi-ply clad stainless a couple years ago. We still need a couple induction compatible ceramic skillets though, but those usually only last a couple years for us. Now, I just ordered an induction countertop burner to see how we like it. I had no idea they made such a thing until this thread came along. It will allow me to try it for $75 versus buying a $1000 range and potentially not liking it. Plus, I can use it outside by the grills if I want.
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Only reasons I'm not 100% ready to switch from Gas to Induction are... I can get higher BTU output from my gas stove than I can with most induction burners. And, if I lift a pan off a gas stove burner by a inch or two, the pan doesn't instantly start to cool, with induction , if you lift the pan off the surface by even one inch, the pan starts to cool very very quickly. So, I still prefer gas for some cooking. I love induction, but not for everything.
I question your first comment. Not so much about BTU output necessarily, but the heat that actually makes it into the pan. Almost 1/2 of the BTUs of a gas burner don't even heat the pan. The only way a gas range even might come close to induction is if you are comparing the highest BTU gas range against a 120V induction hob, which is not exactly apples to apples. Otherwise you will be hard pressed to find a gas burner that will put as much heat into a pan compared to a 240V induction hob. Everything I have ever seen or used myself, induction will boil the same amount of water in about 1/2 the time compared to any gas burner. Theoretically, a 240V induction hob can put almost twice as much heat into a pan than any gas burner, if it can boil water in 1/2 the time. I have yet to see a single comparison that puts gas faster than induction, but you can find induction beating gas all day long. Your second point is correct, although it does not affect me the way I cook.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h45dzeugIZw
https://blog.yaleappliance.com/induction-or-professional-gas-range-what-is-faster
http://blog.us.schott.com/boiling-point-putting-induction-electric-and-gas-to-the-test/
https://blog.yaleappliance.com/fastest-way-to-sear-a-steak-induction-vs-gas
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I bought the Jenn-air Scholl Ceran . The down draft is excellent for catching food and grease. You need a arm the diameter of broom stick to try to clean out. Also the engineering genesis put two of the burners so close to the control knobs your not able to put pans centered over heating elements. Therese a 10% heating loss right off the bat.
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I am curious whether anyone has researched the cost difference between using natural gas versus electric ranges (radiant or induction). I have no data on cost per BTU between them, but I've always been led to believe natural gas is a much cheaper energy source. Not sure it would make a huge difference in choice for cooking.
It really depends on what you pay for gas vs. electricity, but I think gas without a pilot light will be cheaper. Gas is generally cheaper to purchase (almost an absolute) and operate (more often than not but depends on your location). In the link below is a calculator where you punch in what you pay for each and how often you cook and it tells you how much you will pay annually for whichever one you choose. An induction range will be a little more efficient than an electric range so it would be a little less than what this web site would say for electric, but any way you look at it you are more than likely paying pennies a day for either.
I looked at the calculator on the page again and induction is listed at the bottom of the electric side of the chart...
https://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/gas.html
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I'm not trying to say that no induction cooktops are capable of heating a pan hotter than my gas range. All I'm saying , is that the induction cooktop that I have, isn't capable of heating my cooking pans up as hot as I can on my gas range.
The cooktop I use, is a countertop model, it plugs into a 15 amp, 120 volt outlet, it's NOT high power , and I don't need it to be, because I only use it for simmering, and occasionally boiling water. The only reason I use it to boil water on those occasions, is because I'm boiling 9 quarts of water, and it takes roughly 45 minutes to boil that water, since the induction cooktop I'm using has a timer and will shut itself off if I forget I had started the large pot of water.
The main reason, I won't likely every be converted from gas burners, is because I very much prefer the way heat is distributed for high temperature cooking, using my gas range. My wife and I use a wok on a daily basis, it has a curved bottom ( although this one we use does have a small flat spot). A induction burner, would not heat up around the edges of the wok, nor would any traditional electric burner. So, I actually make use of the fact that all the heat from a flame doesn't make 100% direct transfer of heat to the exact spot it first touches the metal pan. This is actually a highly and desired feature for the way I cook on a daily basis. In Taiwan, from where my wife is from, many people actually have special gas burners, just for a wok. My wife and I had considered such a thing for our home here in the USA, but decided that having a reasonably high quality semi-professional gas range, would work well enough for our needs.
So, honestly I don't care about efficiency of heat transfer from my gas burners. What I do care about, is that they put out enough heat to do what I want, and because they are gas, and the flames rise up above the burners, I can move my pan around, and it still stays hot, or I can raise it up , and make some short term adjustments to how hot the pan is, etc... I find gas a very desirable cooking heat source for a variety of reason.
By the way, my current stove has 4 burners that are each rated at 18,000 BTU, and these provide all the heat I or my wife needs for any cooking we do on the stove top. As much as I like induction for low temperature cooking, I personally do not feel I'd ever be happy with it as my primary means of cooking. Same is very likely true for any form of electric cooktop surface, but I have very little actual experience with other cooktops, I just know that if they don't have flames, it probably won't cook like I want.
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@LowSlowJoe
The 120V induction hob is the coleman camp stove of the induction world. You are doing induction a great disservice by comparing the 120V induction hob to your 18,000 btu burner residential/commercial range when you say, "I can get higher BTU output from my gas stove than I can with most induction burners". If you were to compare apples to apples (240V induction range to any gas range) you will find the induction range will have higher highs and lower lows. I would never compare my personal experience with the 240V induction range I owned to a coleman camp stove to say induction is far superior to gas at putting heat in a pan because it is just as invalid of a comparison as the one you made. That was my point. That said, did you see the 1st video in post 33 above (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h45dzeugIZw)? In it at the 3:15 mark, a $69 120V induction hob out performs an 18,000 btu burner on a $3,000 range, which is the opposite of your experience.
Your point about using gas vs induction as it relates to wok cooking is spot on. I am not a huge fan stir fry so wok cooking is not a priority in my house. I never lift a pan off the burner and cook anything elevated above the burner, but I do agree with you that for wok cooking, I'd prefer gas as well. It is pretty much the only time I would actually prefer gas that I can think of.
I am not trying to win you over, Joe. My experiences and observations are just counter to yours. Neither of which is right or wrong.
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I started another poll. I was part of another similar poll elsewhere where the overwhelming majority of the people responding to a poll posted that their preference for gas vs. induction was overwhelmingly in favor of gas, whether the audience had any experience with induction or not. The results were probably 15:1 in favor of gas. The funny thing was that when you filtered the responses to those that had actual experience with both gas and induction residential ranges (not 120V countertop units), 3 people picked induction to 0 picking gas. It was ironic just how skewed the results were when actual experience with both units was taken into account vs. ignored.
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I'm seriously looking at induction now, but my wife's not on board yet. Several models out there look like they'd drop into our current opening. Probably only 30% of our current cookware is compatible so we'd have to get some replacements. Don't want to go too high end since we may not be at this location for too many more years. The Frigidaire Gallery 36" looks like a good value.
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I'm seriously looking at induction now, but my wife's not on board yet. Several models out there look like they'd drop into our current opening. Probably only 30% of our current cookware is compatible so we'd have to get some replacements. Don't want to go too high end since we may not be at this location for too many more years. The Frigidaire Gallery 36" looks like a good value.
When people see an induction range they see glass flat top and think electric. If resale is an important consideration, and gas is available, you might want to take the future buyer's perception into consideration too. I am a fan of induction but a con that some are not happy with is they are noisy. They buzz or hum and it gets louder at the higher settings. Whether that would bother you is very subjective. You can cook and or provide some heat with a gas range that you cannot do with an induction range, should you experience a power outage. To me those were the big negatives. I am sure there are others but I cannot think of them at the moment.
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What powers an induction range?
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What powers an induction range?
Electricity.
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Ta Da...Hence you could have voted...
What powers an induction range?
Electricity.
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Ta Da...Hence you could have voted...
What powers an induction range?
Electricity.
Nope! Electric radiant and induction are 2 different technologies that fall on each side of gas.
In my opinion from a cooking on a range standpoint, an induction range is better than gas and both are way better than your typical radiant electric range. From a cleanup / safety standpoint induction is way better than gas or your typical radiant electric range. From my experience gas is way better than radiant electric, but induction is king over both. So electric is both better than gas, and worse. :-\
For an oven, I prefer electric over gas.
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You brought up Electric radiant, not me. I did not specify natural gas or propane, so not sure why you chose to distinguish between different electric types...
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Obviously, your world is more black and white than mine, or you lump natural gas, propane, etc. all below all versions of electric. Gas falls between 2 distinct electric technologies on my preference scale. The majority of the electric ranges are the kind I prefer less than gas but there is a specific, not very popular subset, I like more than gas.
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I'm on the opposite end of the scale; I haven't cooked on gas in 20 years, and all I have is a cheapo $350 Frigidaire electric stove. It does the job, parts(I haven't bought any for this one in 6 years that I've owned it) are pretty cheap, and easy to replace, and if the circuit board fries, I just buy another one. For $350. ;)
I guess induction is nice, but all my pans are aluminum...... ::)
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I gotta side with slaga on this. Radiant and induction as two vastly different technologies, even though they are both powered by electricity. They are as similar as a basic electric oven and microwave oven. If your poll is trying to determine preference, many might prefer gas over radiant, but induction over either. I have no idea the percentage of households that have induction ,but guess it's pretty low.
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I guess I am black and white also. If you prefer induction over everything, you prefer electricity over gas.