Pellet Fan

All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: Bentley on February 05, 2020, 11:51:59 AM

Title: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 05, 2020, 11:51:59 AM
I have seen this product over the last few years and have been intrigued by it.  I finally decided to buy some.  My 1st thought was hybrid Chicken Kiev with breast and thigh.  I am not a good enough cook to keep the butter in, so I figured this was not only a great cheat, but a great way to get the thigh flavor in the dish too!

I was also curious to try some Frankenstein Roasts as this product seems to have gotten a bad wrap, with some unscrupulous restaurateurs trying to fake out the public.

Not sure what cuts I will use, wanted to pick some cheap cuts of beef and see if I could make a glue roast.  If you were going to choose 4 cheap cuts of beef to make a roast what would you select?


(https://i.imgur.com/PK9g15wh.jpg)
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Brushpopper on February 05, 2020, 12:08:38 PM
Chuck steak, 7 steak, shank meat and round steak.  All Select since that's the cheapest.  Not sure what y'all have in Mayberry.  Interesting project.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 05, 2020, 12:24:44 PM
I am gonna see what Costco has tomorrow in Manassas.  They usually only have the more expensive cuts as steaks, so not sure if I will be able to find anything to work with there.  Would hate to spend $200 on whole cuts of meats to make this work.  But then I hate going into our local Wal-mart or supermarket and pay $3 more per lb. for the same thing.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: ofelles on February 05, 2020, 01:01:32 PM
Following.  I have been thinking about getting some of that stuff also.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: pmillen on February 05, 2020, 01:05:54 PM
I've also been reading about it for a few years.  I never thought that I'd have a use for it.

I'll be following this thread.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Brushpopper on February 05, 2020, 03:37:34 PM
We don't buy meat from our Walmart.  It just doesn't look right color wise.  It's too red looks like it's injected with red dye.

You could also buy stew meat or chili meat and glue it into a roast and then slice it into little steaks.  Chili meat from HEB and our meat market is smaller cut stew meat, although I just use ground turkey for ours. 

And I have no experience with Moo Gloo.  Never heard of it until this post.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 05, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
I wish we had some HEB's around here.  I remember going into one outside of San Antonio once, the beef prices were like $2/lbs less then anywhere else it seemed.

Would like to try Sirloin, Chuck, Round and Flank, but I just dont think I am going to find that without having to buy hunks.  Lots of combos I would like, Sirloin, Chuck, Shank, & Short Rib, could go on and on...
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Brushpopper on February 05, 2020, 04:14:01 PM
I wish we had some HEB's around here.  I remember going into one outside of San Antonio once, the beef prices were like $2/lbs less then anywhere else it seemed.

You ought to go to one of the Gucci HEBs.  (That's what we call them at least because of the Gucci Bowl.  That's when the two rival high schools from the ritzy part of San Antonio play their yearly football game.)  They are really fancy and have stuff I didn't know humans consumed (to put it nicely).
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Trooper on February 05, 2020, 05:38:43 PM
BentMan,

I used this brand of meatglue in the KCBS competitions where I did the chicken entries.
I had sprinkled the glue dust between the skin and thigh when the thighs were being prepared back home here - before the thighs were frozen.
The purpose was to hold the skin to the thigh when the judges took that luscious bite.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: pmillen on February 05, 2020, 07:35:30 PM
I used this brand of meatglue in the KCBS competitions where I did the chicken entries.
I had sprinkled the glue dust between the skin and thigh when the thighs were being prepared back home here - before the thighs were frozen.
The purpose was to hold the skin to the thigh when the judges took that luscious bite.

That's sooooo clever.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Darwin on February 05, 2020, 08:13:38 PM
We don't buy meat from our Walmart.  It just doesn't look right color wise.  It's too red looks like it's injected with red dye.

You could also buy stew meat or chili meat and glue it into a roast and then slice it into little steaks.  Chili meat from HEB and our meat market is smaller cut stew meat, although I just use ground turkey for ours. 

And I have no experience with Moo Gloo.  Never heard of it until this post.

It's not uncommon for retailers to use MAP processing to keep beef red.  Some of the packages look like balloons and the colour is a bit exaggerated.  Ask Google about modified atmosphere packaging (MAP) if you wish to know more.  I think it's nitrogen and carbon monoxide.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Brushpopper on February 05, 2020, 08:55:42 PM
We don't buy meat from our Walmart.  It just doesn't look right color wise.  It's too red looks like it's injected with red dye.

You could also buy stew meat or chili meat and glue it into a roast and then slice it into little steaks.  Chili meat from HEB and our meat market is smaller cut stew meat, although I just use ground turkey for ours. 

And I have no experience with Moo Gloo.  Never heard of it until this post.

It's not uncommon for retailers to use MAP processing to keep beef red.  Some of the packages look like balloons and the colour is a bit exaggerated.  Ask Google about modified atmosphere packaging (MAP) if you wish to know more.  I think it's nitrogen and carbon monoxide.

Never heard of that either.  Man this is an informative thread!  Back when I was a mechanic MAP was Manifold Absolute Pressure or in regular terms the vacuum in the intake manifold.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 05, 2020, 11:25:44 PM
N or CO2, but not CO.  Car exhaust would be a hard sell to the FDA.    :pig:

I think it's nitrogen and carbon monoxide.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 06, 2020, 03:03:59 PM
I remember you saying something about it and I remember 1st hearing about it back when we used to compete.  It just never dawned on me that there might be practical uses for it.  There is no "cheap"  beef for me any more.  It seemed like the RD in CA would have much deeper discounts then here in VA.

I was in Martain's today, a local supermaket, they had a few items marked for quick sale.  Still, stew meat at $3.79/lb and Chuck (which is all the stew meat is I think) for about the same does not seem like a discount.  The regular price of $5.89/lb is a joke, and why I do not buy anything but GB from them, and usually not even that.

So I will use it, see what I can get at Costco tonight and then go into the Laboratory tomorrow!  If I can find some cheap round at Cost co, I might take all these meats, and then take some of the ground rib roast fat and sprinkle it among it to simulate marbling and see what we come up with.  We all know Round has no fat flavor!


I used this brand of meatglue in the KCBS competitions where I did the chicken entries.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Mikro on February 06, 2020, 08:03:31 PM
We don't buy meat from our Walmart.
<snip>
Our Wally World has the NO Flavor variety of meat.
It looks good but ZERO flavor and tough as a boot.
I have had cardboard that has a better taste to it. LOL!!!
mk
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Darwin on February 06, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
N or CO2, but not CO.  Car exhaust would be a hard sell to the FDA.    :pig:

I think it's nitrogen and carbon monoxide.
Ok, its trace amounts.

Gases Used in MAP of Meat
Carbon dioxide, oxygen and nitrogen are the commonly used gases in MAP, along with trace amounts of carbon monoxide, argon and helium.
https://swine.extension.org/modified-atmosphere-packaging-map-microbial-control-and-quality/#Gases_Used_in_MAP_of_Meat
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 06, 2020, 10:08:33 PM
From L to R is Costco USDA Choice Top Sirloin, Prime Brisket & Choice Round.  Small packs are Choice Chuck steaks and stew meat. 

Still not sure how I am going to do this.  One idea is to cube some of the Sirloin, Brisket and Round, and along with the Chuck stew meat add that all to the center of a casing of Brisket, Round and Chuck.  That is idea 1.

Idea 2 is to butterfly the Round and use it as a casing for above chunked meats also.  Or do the same and change Round to Brisket casing and see how it works.

Either way I think I will trim much of the fat from the brisket and grind it.  And it along with the ground fat from the Rib Roast will be sprinkled in the chunks to provide "marbling" for my FrankenRoast!

I am quite excited for tomorrow to get here!


(https://i.imgur.com/13fTSI7h.jpg)
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 06, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
My apologies, I stand corrected on the CO.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 06, 2020, 11:20:06 PM
Trans glue tam minaze...trying to learn how to pronounce this stuff and this is the only way i know how...
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 07, 2020, 07:28:29 AM
I'm still not sure I understand what is going on here.  Are you planning to use this "glue" to adhere different types of meat together so you can obtain a specific shape to use if for some special cook?
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: BigDave83 on February 07, 2020, 08:14:44 AM
Trans glue tam minaze...trying to learn how to pronounce this stuff and this is the only way i know how...

the groups I am in we just call it TG much eaiser.

Can't wait to see what you do with it.

If you like deli meats like chicken or turkey for sammies you can do up breast or breast and thigh meat and put it in a mold and weigh it down over night. then smoke or cook and slice.

you can take some of what you have an build your own steak with some leaner an fattier parts, then vac bag and you can SV or just grill it.

I think this is how they make the little $4 bacon wrapped fillets you find prepackaged at the store.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 07, 2020, 10:58:38 AM
Trying to glue these $4 cuts together with some ground fat and see if they taste like a $9 cut...Shape does not really matter, although I am looking to do a Roast type shape.  After looking on youtube, not a lot on Glue.  If the meat does bind with the ground fat, I may try and do a fake Kobe Steak.  I think the fat is different then the muscle, so I am not sure how well it will bind.

Getting ready to head into the Lab right now!


I'm still not sure I understand what is going on here.  Are you planning to use this "glue" to adhere different types of meat together so you can obtain a specific shape to use if for some special cook?
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 07, 2020, 01:24:57 PM
OK, butterflied (please no comments on this  :pig:) 3lbs of the Round Tip and beat out into rough shape for roast casing.  Cubed 1lb each Brisket (point), Sirloin, some Round Tip (redundant now that I think of it) and Chuck.  The TG is not supposed to have any air in it, so waiting for it to lose the air in it to proceed.  I am conflicted on seasoning.  Not sure if the salt will mess with the bind?  But will go ahead and do so, since at this point, this is pure science and I have no idea what I am doing.   Thinking 2 TBS for the chunks and 2 on the outside once wrapped.  Will pour the TG over the chunks and mix well, then put more TG on the casing and hope for the best.  Will use blender next time for the TG as it clumps badly with whisk!

It has to go in the fridge for 4-24 hours, so will be tomorrow before we see results, I want to go at least 12 hours.

I already have plans for next one, no casing, just chunk meat. wrap up in cling wrap and vac seal.

(https://i.imgur.com/0TEPcIoh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8KNFs3Bh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qppZNLdh.jpg)

Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 07, 2020, 02:11:42 PM
I guess we wait and see!  I was going to go with 15% of the total weight of the roast in fat for marbling, but I decided I am usually excessive when it comes to things like this so I decided on 7%, about 8oz.  So I went layer of ground fat on casing, then 1/2 cubed mixture, then a 1/3 more fat, then other half and remaining fat!  Then cling wrap and vac seal.  It does not feel tight enough, but I guess we find out tomorrow!

(https://i.imgur.com/yFF2ZUAh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oI7JzBzh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/96vZf4Th.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ztk2f3Ch.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TLwixKmh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UBhwXI8h.jpg)


Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 07, 2020, 02:15:51 PM
As you can see by this photo, there are no large veins of fat in the casing, the other side looks just like this, I trimmed everything off.

(https://i.imgur.com/0TEPcIoh.jpg)

So I have no idea where the fat veins are coming from, I am intrigued by it!

(https://i.imgur.com/UBhwXI8h.jpg)
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 07, 2020, 03:43:45 PM
I saw Harry Soo do five different cuts stacked, I might try that down the road.  I realize I should have bought the bigger bag already.  I think I might try the Breast/Thigh Hybrid Chicken Kiev next!
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 08, 2020, 11:10:47 AM
As far as the bonding of meat, a fail.  I am not sure why that is.  My #1 guess would be the casing.  Other then that, maybe the ground fat inhibited the proteins from binding or simply to much filling.  I see that I did not get the casing all the way around, should have use less filling.  But nothing exceeds like excess!  Either way, unsuccessful 1st attempt!  I am taking some sandwiches to a meeting on Monday, so am gonna sous vide a 1.5lb section and see if it can be sliced for roast beef.  The rest, well it has been trussed, and depending on what happens with the sous vide, it may end up as ground beef.

I think I will try and bounce back with the Chicken experiment, then back to the Lab for more beef experiments.

(https://i.imgur.com/KPDjU7oh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hRmAeihh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oEkp0Ynh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/q8NKGwGh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AXmTmNRh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8xVvEjbh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Mm1WOEbh.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/9a04NPwh.jpg)
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 08, 2020, 12:38:35 PM
Lets see how the simple glooing of Chicken breast & thighs do.

(https://i.imgur.com/YQPaBxhh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0XSrT7ah.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UwLwWX1h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TQnAjUdh.jpg)

Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 08, 2020, 04:47:46 PM
My observations.  If I had ordered a Beef Tenderloin in a restaurant and they brought me this, we would have issues.  If I was in a restaurant and they said the only beef we serve is processed and I ordered it, I would be pleased!  I would say how do they have a cut of beef I dont need to season, I will have to ask them how they do that.

As far as the sous vide, I just dont get it yet, as I cant seem to figure out the temperatures & time.  Look for my post in that thread regarding comments on this cook.


(https://i.imgur.com/4qHpPZIh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ir77SpLh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TdPDG1Th.jpg)
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: BigDave83 on February 08, 2020, 08:18:47 PM
Not sure what your SV issues are. Simplest and you may already know this, Temp equals doneness and time equals tenderness.

For the first try it doesn't look so bad, you just need to work at getting the parts together to fix the air holes.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 09, 2020, 02:25:20 PM
Not a pretty slice of Roast Beef, but it is tasty, and it did slice at #3 on the 610!  Basically $4/lb Roast Beef, not sure what the supermarkets and deli's get!


(https://i.imgur.com/nhGq9vdh.jpg)
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: BigDave83 on February 09, 2020, 03:02:19 PM
That looks good, a bit of horseradish and some mayo, provolone and a big slice of tomato, make a great sammie.
 
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 09, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
Supermarket probably is anywhere from 4.99/lb for the cheaper brands up to maybe 9.99/lb for better brands. 

Deli prices by the pound can get up there fast.  This is the place I took you and Trooper to in Indianapolis.  19+ dollars a pound for their peppered beef and brisket.  Worth it by the way.  I love that place.

https://shapiros.com/menu/
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 09, 2020, 04:25:58 PM
Figured I would post in both places as it seems to apply to both.  I see by the FDA chart I should be safe at 60 minutes @ 137°.  I will hope that it is cooked enough.  It has been beaten more then a Government Mule, so it should be tender.  i will be honest, I hold no hope of the butter staying in the meat, but I will just put it in dish and pour over after being fried.

Meat Gloo Hybrid Chicken Kiev (https://youtu.be/Fvzcrh4ohR8)

(https://i.imgur.com/tHyQZ4gh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/x04TTMAh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nVwyWykh.jpg)
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 09, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
It did not look of feel like it was done, decided another hour, hope it does not ruin it for moistness.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 09, 2020, 07:44:50 PM
If you think Chicken Kiev should look like a Grapefruit and feed a small family, this Chicken Kiev is for you!  It was good.  Kristin kept saying it does not look like the way Mom made it. Really, imagine that.  It was an experiment with 1lb of chicken, ya think Mom was using both thigh and breast in hers.  Although my Mom did use mushrooms, which is not traditional, but would have made it even better.  At 1st I thought it was under cooked till I realized it was just the color of the thigh meat!

Will go into chicken salad sandwich for tomorrow nights meeting!

Wish I had just cut it in half to show the butter, I was pleased that it all stayed in!

The Cutting. (https://youtu.be/JBC_E2Ag9mA)


(https://i.imgur.com/xwI3qAEh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/j7t564Jh.jpg)
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: BigDave83 on February 09, 2020, 08:02:09 PM
Looks good,and looks like it held together.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on February 09, 2020, 08:16:54 PM
The butter all stayed in, that surprised the heck out of me!
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on March 05, 2020, 11:02:21 AM
I think I will take the remaining beef and layer it, then bond it, then roll and truss & cook.  Half for a roast, half for sandwich meat.  Will try ad get some pictures up.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on March 05, 2020, 12:37:06 PM
Would be wonderful to have uniform slicing ability.  I cant really think of any other things to do, will need to look and see what folks are doing with different meats on the internet and try some of those.

1st photo is the butchered butterflied Brisket flat, then some bits and pieces to fill in the gaps in butterflying, not even sure what cuts in 2nd layer, then the Round Tip,  All my 15 inch vac roll was gone, so I had to cut it in two, which I was not happy with.  Will see how it bonds tomorrow.  Will then see if they can be trussed and cooked.  Then it is some French Dips this weekend!

(https://i.imgur.com/Cbc2XBZh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3UfYdGCh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dCk3YqIh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KYJ6CjSh.jpg)
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Brushpopper on March 05, 2020, 09:52:54 PM
I wish I had the knife skills to do that.  I'd be bleeding if I tried it.  Again in fact.  :-[
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on March 05, 2020, 10:16:58 PM
To see someone with real knife skills peel (I guess the butchers term is roll cut) a loin or tenderloin truly is a work of art.  I am far from it, but I have seen some videos of it and it is like someone unrolling a Swiss Roll cake...
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on April 21, 2020, 01:09:04 PM
I cut these up to grind.  Just though you all might like to see the cross section. This was the Brisket, Chuck, Round and Sirloin in the above photos, the bag on the left I believe.  They might have made a decent $4 steak to grill, should have saved one to try!

(https://i.imgur.com/iNfhUAmh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q9Xq53Rh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iprWc3kh.jpg)


Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: pmillen on May 22, 2020, 10:08:00 PM
Yes, they look as though they might have been an acceptable steak.

I was making fall off the bone ribs for Marcia a couple of days ago and I recalled your thoughts about pulling out the bones and making a McRib sandwich.  Do you have any of that glue left?  How about trimming the rib meat from the bones of raw ribs and glueing them back together for that sandwich?
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on May 22, 2020, 11:00:34 PM
I do, and I will be happy to do your suggestion.  But would it not just be easier to cook and pull out bones for sandwich?

I guess I cannot completely picture what you are asking for?  So I get a rack of spare ribs and cut off knuckle so we are close to St Louis?  Then cut all the way through, top to bottom between each rib, lay on cutting board, glue together and then cook?

Like I said, I will be happy to look for some ribs & bread tomorrow!

I recalled your thoughts about pulling out the bones and making a McRib sandwich.  Do you have any of that glue left?  How about trimming the rib meat from the bones of raw ribs and glueing them back together for that sandwich?
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: pmillen on May 23, 2020, 10:28:16 AM
Yeah, it would be easier to simply pull the bones as you suggested.

Actually, my proposal was sort of tongue in cheek.  When I was thinking about your idea I also remembered that McDonalds glued rib scraps to form their sandwich meat.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on May 23, 2020, 01:51:30 PM
I am looking for suggestions on what to do with the glue.  Jim sent that huge amount and I feel bad that I have not experimented more, but I just can't think of what to try.  I would welcome all suggestions on what to do.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: BigDave83 on May 23, 2020, 08:50:58 PM
I have used it to do a turkey breast, boned it out and put the 2 halves together in a way to make a piece of turkey I smoked and then sliced for sammiches. I used it for something else, it has been a long time since I made anything with it. I think I may still have some in the fridge. I have thought bout getting some fatback and pork loin and making a pork chop with streaks of fat through it.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on May 23, 2020, 09:24:07 PM
I would love to see how you can make a rack(s) of rib(s) without bones into a patty.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on January 04, 2021, 01:15:10 PM
Sorry I missed this all those months ago.  I would enjoy having something to experiment on with as wet and cold as it is here now.  Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?


I would love to see how you can make a rack(s) of rib(s) without bones into a patty.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bentley on January 04, 2021, 01:18:08 PM
This might be interesting too.  Kind of like a parkay table of wood.  Been so long, I can't remember if the Moo Glue works with fat?

I have thought bout getting some fatback and pork loin and making a pork chop with streaks of fat through it.
Title: Re: Meat Glue
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 04, 2021, 02:32:21 PM
Sorry I missed this all those months ago.  I would enjoy having something to experiment on with as wet and cold as it is here now.  Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?


I would love to see how you can make a rack(s) of rib(s) without bones into a patty.

I was probably thinking along the lines of a McRib but I have not idea anymore its been so long ago.