Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: Hank D Thoreau on March 24, 2020, 08:52:51 PM
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This is my third time in the past couple of weeks cooking chuck roasts on the smoker.
The first two cooks turned out great but the chuck took a lot of effort to pull. I had to do it by hand, pulling the fibers apart. Forks or my bear claws did not work. It was too springy.
I was perusing the web reading recipes and one noted that chuck has more connective tissue to render than pork butt and it is best to take it to around 210 and hold it there for 1 to 2 hours.
I did just that, holding it for an hour. I pulled it off when one of my probes was showing 217. The chuck turned out great. The two roasts fell apart easily. A minute or so and it was shredded.
I was going to try to push it another half hour but I did not want to dry it out. I feel pretty confident going a little longer next time and seeing if I can get it even more tender.
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Thanks, since I see more chuck roast on the pit in my future, I will give the longer higher IT a shot. Based on your feedback it was neither dry or nor mushy?
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Seeing all these chuck roast posts as of late has really has made me hungry! I think I may have one burried deep in the freezer. I am going to have to take a look!
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Thanks, since I see more chuck roast on the pit in my future, I will give the longer higher IT a shot. Based on your feedback it was neither dry or nor mushy?
It was neither dry nor mushy. In fact, my son's first comment was that it had a better texture.
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Thanks for the tip about cooking it longer. I also have a roast deep in the freezer, but I also still have a bag with some leftovers in it I was saving to use for stuffed baked potatoes.
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Guess I'll have to try a little higher IT and hold there, that really seems to be getting up there.
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Good job! I had given up on getting the right texture on chuck, but will follow your lead. What was your cooking temp and about how long did they take?
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If you guys just through it in a covered pan with your liquid of choice after it gets to an IT of 160° on the smoker, you won't have to worry about drying it out and you could probably pull it apart with spoons it is so tender it is ready to fall apart as soon as something touches it. The juices would probably make for a good soup stock or stock for chili. I think most of you are overthinking how to cook this cut of meat. And, it retains its smoke flavor and color too.
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Good job! I had given up on getting the right texture on chuck, but will follow your lead. What was your cooking temp and about how long did they take?
I ran a little hot in the beginning. I had my Daniel Boone set at 225 but it was running between 225 and 245 at the grill. It was cooking faster than I wanted so I turned it down and eventually got the peak closer to 225. I get fairly wide temperature swings which I can see with my ThermoWorks Signals. When the IT breached 200 I turned it down to about 185 which put me a bit above 200 and did a good job of holding the temperature steady. Since I got my Signals I have been working on adjusting my grill to get the correct temperature where the food is. The Signals produces graphs, which are useful doing this. The wifi allows me to monitor while I am working from home. The total cook was 8 1/4 hours, and that was after slowing it down. I wrapped at about 4 3/4 hours in the 160's. I added about 1/8 cut of beef broth and wrapped in foil. I wrapped the two chucks separately.
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If you guys just through it in a covered pan with your liquid of choice after it gets to an IT of 160° on the smoker, you won't have to worry about drying it out and you could probably pull it apart with spoons it is so tender it is ready to fall apart as soon as something touches it. The juices would probably make for a good soup stock or stock for chili. I think most of you are overthinking how to cook this cut of meat. And, it retains its smoke flavor and color too.
I don't see changing the final internal temperature, and maybe lowering the grill temperature for the last hour as over thinking. That is why I have wifi controls from my smart phone.
Like the Ronco Showtime grill, I can set it and forget it.
Moving to a covered pan is an extra step that I would have to worry about during my work day. This way I have less steps and less to clean.
I do all my long cooks on work days instead of weekends since I work from home.
Now that we are sheltering in place, I also do long cooks on the weekends since there is nowhere to go.
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Pulled beef has been a hot ticket at my house. We have three households living here and I have trouble getting them to eat what I cook.
I always offer but they generally cook on their own. One studied to be a chef.
I am having no trouble getting them to eat the shredded beef. Every time I check I am surprise with how much is gone.
The one that studied to be a chef makes some pretty good looking sandwiches out of it. She never does anything quick and dirty. Everything she makes has special effort put into it.
I bought two more yesterday figuring I may cook them in about a week. It may be sooner now.
I have been making hash and eggs for my wife to take to work. We have made tacos, BBQ beef, and other types of creative sandwiches. There is still a lot we can do with it that we have not yet explored.
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Hank, I want to say thanks for the info. When you said 210, it seemed crazy high. However, I did a Mexican rub on a chuck today and didn’t quite make 210, but got it to hit 208 and stay there for an hour plus. It turned out fantastic and fell apart.
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Here is the chart on the two beef chucks I did on Saturday. They turned out really good. The second chuck lagged a bit behind so I cooked it a bit longer.
I am not sure why my second chuck was running so low with the probe. I had a second probe in it that was not on wifi that ran higher. So far, I have found that holding for an hour somewhere from 205 to 215 is working out great. I use multiple probes so I get a range of temperatures.
I set my Daniel Boone at 200 to get 225 at the grill where the chucks were placed. This time the average was a little lower than previously.
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I recall a very interesting article in Cooks Illustrated years back. They were testing chuck roasts and had accidentally forgotten one & left it in the oven for an extended period of time. This one turned out to be the BEST. Their conclusion was that it is very difficult to overcook a chuck roast. And it simply takes a long period of time to break down all those connective tissues and make them jelly like.
So, since learning that simple fact I always try to overcook my chuck roast -whether I'm doin one in the pellet machine, crock pot, or oven. I love them fall apart and tender. And a long cooking time brings that result.
And also out of the past. I was a BIG fan of this "pot roast" recipe from years back on the old forum.
https://pelletfan.com/index.php?topic=636.msg6450#msg6450
Hey! We're talkin 8 hours. Almost sounds frightening doesn't it? Start it early. It's a great Sunday afternoon meal!
I'm sorry pmillen. After searching I see that you have that recipe here.
https://pelletfan.com/index.php?topic=4704.msg54584#msg54584
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Hank, I want to say thanks for the info. When you said 210, it seemed crazy high. However, I did a Mexican rub on a chuck today and didn’t quite make 210, but got it to hit 208 and stay there for an hour plus. It turned out fantastic and fell apart.
That really looks great. I don't always make 210 with all my probes. Some might run quite a bit higher. Sometimes I am around 205 to 210. Holding at high temperature seems to really do the trick.
...and, I am going to have to admonish you if that is a flour tortilla on that taco. Shame !!!!!
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I did another chuck roast yesterday and followed your recommendation for holding the meat temperature around 210 for a hour. I smoked the 3 1/2 pounder for 3 hours at 200. I then put it in a pan with broth and onions at 220 until it reached 165/170 degrees. Each hour I flipped the roast over. This step took about 4 hours. I then covered it and bumped the smoker temperature to 250. After only an hour it reached the 210 range. I then lowered the temperature to 230 and it held the meat temperature right at 212 for an hour. I then removed it to start cooling down.
That last step is definitely the secret to getting it fork tender. It took right at 9 hours to get done. The only issue I saw was while my wife was pulling it apart with a fork some kept disappearing into her mouth. The shredded beef was put back in the broth and put into the refrigerator. We will remove most of the fat today and my wife will make a gravy to serve it all over egg noodles. This meal has become one of our favorites to smoke on the smoker.
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I'm sorry pmillen. After searching I see that you have that recipe here.
https://pelletfan.com/index.php?topic=4704.msg54584#msg54584
That's okay. I originally posted it on PH and thought that putting it here had some merit. Interestingly, I didn't notice that you had already posted it from memory.
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If I remember correctly we were inspired by the Pepper Stout Beef post on PH 8 or so years ago. And we all went through this same level of excitement. I've been cooking them ever since. I pulled three chuck roasts (ranging from 2.5 to 3.5) out of the freezer the other day. Made a rub (ancho chilies mixed to near powder, Mexican chili powder, smoked paprika, garlic powder, coarse black pepper, a portion of taco seasoning) rubbed and let sit overnight. Into the Gator at 225. Ran out of pellets and started back up (user error again). Ran for a good 8 hours until I paid it much attention. Read up on this tread and figured going longer would be no problem. I eventually covered at IT of 180 or so, put in some beef broth. Upped pit to 250. Two hours later added two white onions, three pablano pepers, three red bell peppers. All rough cut. Then went for another 2 hours. So yeah, 12 hours in all. I added a cup of calabrian chilli when shredding. Shredded easily, tasted great. I'll be adding salt to mine, wife asked me to limit the salt and ... it needed salt!
And my phone camera is just about dead So I put the pictures together to give you an idea. The blurry ones are from my phone.
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I found a couple more chuck roasts today. I will probably be cooking them sometime this week, over the weekend at the latest.
Everyone loves the pulled beef at my house.
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You've convinced me. Will do one this next week.
Great pioneer work in the low slow pot roast area. I'm thinking smoking at 200* for 3 hrs, and then beef consume, with French Onion Soup mix, carrots, and onions until temp of 210 reached and held for hour or such. Then rest another hour before pulling and defatting. ? Comments appreciated.
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We usually plan on eating the pulled beef the next day after it is smoked. After it is shredded we pour up the au jus and put it and the shredded beef in the refrigerator in separate containers overnight. The next morning it is easy to defat the au jus. It all then goes into a pot on top of the stove to simmer for a while before eating. I have one of those defat cups, but I can't seem to get it to work right.
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We usually plan on eating the pulled beef the next day after it is smoked. After it is shredded we pour up the au jus and put it and the shredded beef in the refrigerator in separate containers overnight. The next morning it is easy to defat the au jus. It all then goes into a pot on top of the stove to simmer for a while before eating. I have one of those defat cups, but I can't seem to get it to work right.
Great idea to separate the au jus. Then just lift the solid fat plate off the top. Will do that.
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I cooked a couple more chucks yesterday. This time I held the internal temperature (four probes) between about 203 and 211 for two hours rather than one. This was the most tender my chucks have turned out. I was able to get better control over the internal temperature and really hold it well. Wifi controls and temperature measurements really help. In the past, some probes would start to rise too high so I would cut it off. So there is a new best chuck so far at my house.
As far as the au jus is concerned, I used it with my first chuck and thought it was too strong. I have not used it since. It might depend on what you are making. I make a lot of tacos and that big beefy flavor does not fit.
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Here is the chart on the two beef chucks I did on Saturday. They turned out really good. The second chuck lagged a bit behind so I cooked it a bit longer.
I am not sure why my second chuck was running so low with the probe. I had a second probe in it that was not on wifi that ran higher. So far, I have found that holding for an hour somewhere from 205 to 215 is working out great. I use multiple probes so I get a range of temperatures.
I set my Daniel Boone at 200 to get 225 at the grill where the chucks were placed. This time the average was a little lower than previously.
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What device is this recording that data?
Thanks,
Neil
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Here is the chart on the two beef chucks I did on Saturday. They turned out really good. The second chuck lagged a bit behind so I cooked it a bit longer.
I am not sure why my second chuck was running so low with the probe. I had a second probe in it that was not on wifi that ran higher. So far, I have found that holding for an hour somewhere from 205 to 215 is working out great. I use multiple probes so I get a range of temperatures.
I set my Daniel Boone at 200 to get 225 at the grill where the chucks were placed. This time the average was a little lower than previously.
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What device is this recording that data?
Thanks,
Neil
I am using a ThermoWorks Signals with four probes, three in the meat, and one ambient. It connect wifi to my phone. I transfer the data to Google Drive and then do the statistical analysis in Excel.
Here is the chart for the two chucks I did yesterday. I was time constrained at the end of the cook so I did not hold at terminal internal temperature as long as I have been doing lately.
An hours is good. Two hours is better. The beef was still easy to shred. The temperature drop came from my smoker turning off while I was out driving someone to work and doing some shopping. The Signals kept capturing temperatures.
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Last weekend I cooked my 14 and 15 chuck roast since I started cooking them back in April. These went up in temperature more quickly than my previous chucks.
I got the internal temperatures frozen rock solid at 210 with several probes and held for more than two hours. The hold is the key.
The chucks turned out perfect and incredibly tender. It seems the longer I hold the more tender they turn out, and so far it does not seem to matter how quickly I get to 210.
Now I'll have to work on brisket. I am still struggling with the different thicknesses of the meat. I am hit and miss so far.
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You have inspired me to try one of these for the 4th of July weekend. Looking at your signals graph it looks like you are running a grill temp of 230ish right from the start, is that correct?
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You have inspired me to try one of these for the 4th of July weekend. Looking at your signals graph it looks like you are running a grill temp of 230ish right from the start, is that correct?
I'd recommend 275°. I think the meat will break down faster for you and you will not lose any additional smoke flavor IMO.
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You have inspired me to try one of these for the 4th of July weekend. Looking at your signals graph it looks like you are running a grill temp of 230ish right from the start, is that correct?
I shoot for 225, but it often gets higher than that. Sometimes I have to set my smoker down to 200 to get there. For the hold I try to keep the temperature close to 210, maybe a bit lower.
I wrap at about IT 160 to 165 adding about 1/8 cup of beef broth.
I do two at a time now. One does not last since everyone likes it. That's why I have done 15. I have done them in pairs after the first one I cooked, and posted about.
I just got my new freezer last Friday so I was able to unload some meat to make it more accessible. I have a couple of pork butts that I need to cook. I got a good deal on a two pack at Smart and Final right before the stay at home order.
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What kind of BBQ sauce works best for when you sauce it?
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I wish chuck roasts were as easy to find up here as they seem to be in the US. I can get them from a wholesaler but have to order 25lb. Most grocery stores grind it. If I go to a butcher I pay a premium price. I am just waiting for a little room in the freezer then I will go to the wholesaler. I got my delivery of Tatonka Dust last week. The best BBQ I have ever made was chuck roast using tatonka. I’m looking forward to trying this new method and holding at 210F. Thanks for sharing.
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I didn't know that Tatanka dust was available again.
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I didn't know that Tatanka dust was available again.
They began offering it again in March and quickly sold out, but was back available again in April. Showing available still on their website.
I tried it on some poor quality strip loin steaks ( they were free) so I can't decide if there is any change from the original product yet. I understood one of the original ingredients wasn't available any longer and they spent a lot of time trying to recreate the flavor profile.
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I wish chuck roasts were as easy to find up here as they seem to be in the US. I can get them from a wholesaler but have to order 25lb. Most grocery stores grind it. If I go to a butcher I pay a premium price. I am just waiting for a little room in the freezer then I will go to the wholesaler. I got my delivery of Tatonka Dust last week. The best BBQ I have ever made was chuck roast using tatonka. I’m looking forward to trying this new method and holding at 210F. Thanks for sharing.
If the stores in your area are grinding it then they are getting some in.
Talk to the people there and ask them if they will sell you a roast instead of grinding it.
They get to the store already broken down and need minimal trimming to be sold as a roast so it isn't like they would have to do much work.
Any store worth shopping at would be happy to do this for you.
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Try Aldi, if you have one near you. They carry the prepackaged beef chucks. I have a bunch in my freezer. As far as roasts, they generally carry chucks, rib eyes and bottom round roasts. I finally gave up on the bottom round roasts after a few tries. You really need a slicer.
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Following your technique, I did 2 chuck roasts today with just a simple Dalmatian rub. They were at about 155IT after 4.5hrs when I wrapped them, turned up the temp a bit to get them to 205-210 and then held them there for about 1.5 hrs, and then 45 min rest before shredding. They were really good, so tender and juicy, whole family loved them. Thanks for sharing.
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I got a couple of Boneless Blade Roasts from Costco the other day and was going to try your method but sadly I didn’t get them on until 0930 with dinner set for 6. I am up for work at 0430 so eating later doesn’t work. Next time I will start them up around 7 to be able to hold them as you indicated.
Rubbed with Tatonka Dust, when they reached 160F, into a pan with Better than Bouillon and covered until they hit 210F rested for 45 mins then pulled. Lots of flavour and very moist.
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I have not done chucks in awhile after running about 15 through my smoker. I did 2 more today using the slow to 210 and hold method. It worked great. This time I added a bit more beef broth when I wrapped in the 160's. They turned out incredibly moist and fell apart with the bear claws. The wrapping and the extra broth did not hurt the bark. Below is the chart. You can see where I wrapped and how I held the temperature at the end. I usually have to do a bit of tweaking to get the temperature steady in the 205 to 210 range on all the probes. This is where wifi really helps. I was watching Numbers on TV while waiting for the hold period to end. I measured hold time by episodes.
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Here is a picture of my morning shredded beef burrito. The great thing about shredded beef is that you can do so many different things with it. I see some impressive sandwiches built at my house.
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Hank, I don't think you've mentioned the rub you prefer.
Or maybe you don't season them before you put them in the pit.
EDIT: Also, no liquid except the ounce of beef broth when wrapping?
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Hank, I don't think you've mentioned the rub you prefer.
Or maybe you don't season them before you put them in the pit.
EDIT: Also, no liquid except the ounce of beef broth when wrapping?
I have been using JK Western Pride Santa Maria rub with Rodelle Gourmet Prime Rib seasoning. The Rodelle has large chunks of salt which makes it ideal for dry brining.
I didn't dry brine this time since it was a spur of the moment decision.
I think whether you use a rub and how much is determined by what you want to use the meat for. I find straight beef is better for tacos, which are my favorite.
Everyone else is making sandwiches of some sort, or eating it plain. For them I think the rub adds a nice flavor.
I added more broth this time, maybe about three times what I used to add. I think it really helped keep the chucks moist. That is all the liquid I added.
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I made 3 chuck roasts today, we shredded and ate most of 2 of them. The third is still wrapped in foil and I’m giving it to my sister tomorrow for dinner. Any advice for the best way to reheat it? I was going to tell her to put it in the oven at 200 for about an hour and then shred it. Does that sound about right? Any advice is appreciated.
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There is probably a best way but I just microwave in individual servers based on whether I am making tacos or bbq sandwiches. We have an excellent cook that lives with us that heats individual servings in a pan on the stove while adding all kinds of goodies to make it even more tasty. She is a meticulous cook that spends a lot of time putting a meal together.
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This is my third time in the past couple of weeks cooking chuck roasts on the smoker.
The first two cooks turned out great but the chuck took a lot of effort to pull. I had to do it by hand, pulling the fibers apart. Forks or my bear claws did not work. It was too springy.
I was perusing the web reading recipes and one noted that chuck has more connective tissue to render than pork butt and it is best to take it to around 210 and hold it there for 1 to 2 hours.
I did just that, holding it for an hour. I pulled it off when one of my probes was showing 217. The chuck turned out great. The two roasts fell apart easily. A minute or so and it was shredded.
I was going to try to push it another half hour but I did not want to dry it out. I feel pretty confident going a little longer next time and seeing if I can get it even more tender.
Why would you want it more tender than "pull apart" tender? It could end up mushy.
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Fall apart is a relative statement. At the point of that post I was still looking for more tenderness. It didn't end up mushy.
I have continued to use the same approach of holding for 60 to 90 minutes in the 210 range and they have all come out great.
Holding a little longer improved the outcome. Now I have a formula that works. There is a lot of leeway. How long I hold depends on how well I am able to stabilize the internal temperature.
I have gotten pretty good at keeping it fairly constant.
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Good info. I see what you mean. Will try to do the same.
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Charts and graphs? Come on now, it’s just bbq!!
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Charts and graphs? Come on now, it’s just bbq!!
To each his (or her) own, Vmastros. As you spend more time here you'll see that we focus on being supportive.
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Charts and graphs? Come on now, it’s just bbq!!
To each his (or her) own, Vmastros. As you spend more time here you'll see that we focus on being supportive.
I have spent a lot of time here, like daily. I agree he can do whatever he likes. Thanks for being supportive. ;)
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Charts and graphs? Come on now, it’s just bbq!!
With cooking there are two extremes in approach, there is feel and analytical. Most folks are somewhere in between but it is interesting to look at the limiting cases.
The cook by feel is the person that can tell doneness very precisely just by pressing on the meat and feeling the response. It takes a lot of experience to be able to do this effectively.
The analytical cook will use instruments like thermometer. I definitely fall on the analytical side. I rely on thermometers and temperature profiles to get the best results.
It has improved the quality and consistency of what I cook. As such, I have a drawer full of very good food thermometers of various sorts.
The best way to cook is the way you enjoy and that produces the desired outcome. It may not be the same approach for me as it is for you. Or you may find that trying a different approach improves your outcome. You won't know until you try.
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Has anyone tried this method for shredded beef with a shoulder roast? I know they are leaner than a chuck but come from almost the same area. It seems they are better just grilled like a thick steak but I'm not sure. H-E-B has them on sale for $3.99 a pound here so I want get some but I'm not sure how to cook it.
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The Shoulder Roast name came along after I quit cutting and wrapping meat with my father. From what I can tell it's a new name for what we called the Under Blade Roast, although it could also be what we called the Chuck Eye Roast. Both are more lean but the Under Blade has fewer individual muscles.
I think that the Chuck Eye would pull into strips nicely. I don't think that the Under Blade would pull as well.
A butcher that has been cutting meat for a few years could probably tell you if the Shoulder Roast has another, older, name and if it's suitable for pulled beef. (I saw a California Roast that I thought was from the chuck, but that was the only time I've seen that name.)
Sorry that this reply falls short of answering your questions. I haven't kept up to date on the on-going beef cut renaming.
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As an update, I have now cooked over 30 chucks in the past year and a half and the last few are even better. The change I made was adding more beef broth when wrapping.
I started with a very small amount. Now I liberally pour, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 cup. I am not really sure of the amount. I do it by feel, coating the meat without leaving a lot of extra.
I also maximize the temperature hold making sure that the chuck that is lagging in temperature gets at least an hour. Last time I did three for the first time and it worked great.
I actually had extra to freeze for the first time.
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I haven't kept up to date on the on-going beef cut renaming.
I haven't either. I think renaming is just a way to confuse the consumer. I think it is a leaner cut from lover in the shoulder. I'll get some and try it. What's the worst that can happen other than dry out? That's where the broth comes in. I'll experiment at 4 bucks a pound. I'll probably cut some up for stew meat also.
I actually had extra to freeze for the first time.
Finally!! Thanks for the update. That's another reason I wanted to give this thread a bump. Newer users need to try Hank's method. It's a hit every time I've done it. :clap: