Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: Free Mr. Tony on December 06, 2020, 03:30:30 PM
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I got a new mixer yesterday that I've had my eye on for awhile. It's a spiral mixer that specializes in bread dough. It is a 66 pound beast, but in the short time I've had it is a joy to use.
(https://i.imgur.com/0he0Fl8l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8ybfhe9l.jpg)
I wanted to start out with a few recipes I've made often so I could compare the results to my kitchenaid mixer. Started out with my bagel dough. The dough came out of the mixer beautifully smooth. After baking I could tell as soon as I picked one up that they were different. Much lighter and fluffier than normal.
(https://i.imgur.com/E3Ww4K6l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lsop9mfl.jpg)
I also have about 4 loaves worth of honey wheat bread rising at the moment.
Here it is next to a standard kitchenaid mixer for size comparison.
(https://i.imgur.com/rHEjEfll.jpg)
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look great
send me 2 dozen jalapeno cheddar bagels
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look great
send me 2 dozen jalapeno cheddar bagels
I absolutely would if I could get them there economically before they were stale. Pretty much have to freeze the day of making, or they just aren't the same.
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Nice Christmas present for yourself. :clap:
The Famag is a beefy unit.
Can't wait to see how it does with pizza.
Bagels look great! I need to make some again.
P.S. - Love your granite on the island.
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FMT, why do you tease people?
I say quit your day job, wow!
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That is a nice looking unit!
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I sure could use one of those since I've started baking bread to kill the extra time that I have due to the virus. I've done banana nut, whole wheat and dinner rolls. This morning it was baguette rolls.
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Nice Christmas present for yourself. :clap:
The Famag is a beefy unit.
Can't wait to see how it does with pizza.
Bagels look great! I need to make some again.
P.S. - Love your granite on the island.
I'm sure I will be doing pizza this week or next weekend. It was the primary reason I bought it. Thanks on the granite comment.
FMT, why do you tease people?
I say quit your day job, wow!
Too kind. I've always thrown around opening a wood fired pizza place. Maybe someday.
That is a nice looking unit!
It is pretty nice looking I think. They make 10 different colors. The dark blue spoke to me for whatever reason.
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I sure could use one of those since I've started baking bread to kill the extra time that I have due to the virus. I've done banana nut, whole wheat and dinner rolls. This morning it was baguette rolls.
I've made bread off and on for years. Pizza pretty much two or three times a month for 15 years or so. I have a feeling that I will be wondering why I didn't get this sooner. We just had the virus run through our house. My wife had the roughest time with it. Pretty much bed/couch ridden for 2 and a half weeks. No fun. I made it 12 of the 14 days without getting it, then got sick. Mine was only bad for a day or two. We still don't have all of our taste back though.
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Will you use that mixer to make homemade pasta dough too?
Any of you bakers make English muffins?
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Will you use that mixer to make homemade pasta dough too?
Any of you bakers make English muffins?
I certainly plan to make pasta with it. Its supposed to handle it ok, but we'll see. Pasta dough is super stiff, and I'll definitely be impressed if this handles it well.
I've always wanted to try english muffins but haven't yet. I have a couple recipes saved when I do. Maybe I'll give those a go next weekend.
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Hi FMT,
That sure is a nice looking mixer.
Since I started baking sourdough breads about 3 years age I’ve gone the opposite way, from using a spiral dough hook Kitchen Aid to doing everything by hand. The one exception are rye breads that are just too sticky to mix by hand.
Right now as I sit here typing this, I am waiting for my new toy, a Mockmill 200 grain mill and 25+ pounds of heirloom wheat and rye berries.
We do love our toys, don’t we.
Keith
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Hi FMT,
That sure is a nice looking mixer.
Since I started baking sourdough breads about 3 years age I’ve gone the opposite way, from using a spiral dough hook Kitchen Aid to doing everything by hand. The one exception are rye breads that are just too sticky to mix by hand.
Right now as I sit here typing this, I am waiting for my new toy, a Mockmill 200 grain mill and 25+ pounds of heirloom wheat and rye berries.
We do love our toys, don’t we.
Keith
I don't do a ton of the sour dough and rustic type breads. When I do though, I'm pretty happy with my results with the kitchenaid and hand mixing, or even no knead. That type of bread seems to be moving in that direction. Less mixing, longer fermentation, etc which negates some of the need to knead.
I actually prefer to make the lower hydration doughs, which require much more work by hand to get the structure to be bakery quality. I certainly can do it by hand, but it's a ton of time and effort. I like my pizza dough at about 58% hydration as well. I'm looking forward to seeing what this does (if anything) with my pizza dough.
The expectation with purchasing this was to improve the quality of my dough, as well as mixing capacity. I'll be slightly disappointed (and surprised) if is doesn't improve the quality, but I gained a ton of real estate even if the dough quality stayed the same.
Good luck with the grain mill. I haven't ventured down that road, but have considered it. I got the mixer at Pleasant Hill Grain. They have some really nice stuff if you want to check them out.
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So you feel the spiral mixing action is just better the the Kitchen aid hook? Or is there something else that make it better?
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So you feel the spiral mixing action is just better the the Kitchen aid hook? Or is there something else that make it better?
Spiral is better then the J hook.
I have a Viking mixer with the J hook (similar to Kitchen-Aid), and dough keeps climbing the hook. Have to keep pushing it down.
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So you feel the spiral mixing action is just better the the Kitchen aid hook? Or is there something else that make it better?
It's just a completely different type of mixing action. I used a kitchaid for over 20 years with no real complaints so I'm a Kitchenaid fan. With the dryer doughs especially though, once all the flour is added the dough hook really isn't kneading the dough. It just flops it around. So to get truly developed dough, you pretty much always have to finish by hand with the kitchenaid.
I haven't really watched this video. There are tons of others just like it. Check out the mixing action from 7 minutes on. Then check out the window pane tested at about 21:40. It takes forever to get to that point by hand. Or a ton of waiting between stretch and pulls. The dough comes straight out of the mixer as smooth as I've ever seen. It's pretty amazing.
https://youtu.be/HgW_WzP4seU
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So you feel the spiral mixing action is just better the the Kitchen aid hook? Or is there something else that make it better?
Spiral is better then the J hook.
I have a Viking mixer with the J hook (similar to Kitchen-Aid), and dough keeps climbing the hook. Have to keep pushing it down.
This as well. A bagel batch with a total weight of 1600 g yields me 16 bagels. That pretty much maxed out the Kitchenaid. I would be constantly using a spatula to keep it from crawling up the hook. Not the end of the world, but also wasn't the best kneaded dough either. I don't know if I'll ever want to make 50 bagels, but theoretically I could in this.
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So you feel the spiral mixing action is just better the the Kitchen aid hook? Or is there something else that make it better?
Spiral is better then the J hook.
I have a Viking mixer with the J hook (similar to Kitchen-Aid), and dough keeps climbing the hook. Have to keep pushing it down.
This as well. A bagel batch with a total weight of 1600 g yields me 16 bagels. That pretty much maxed out the Kitchenaid. I would be constantly using a spatula to keep it from crawling up the hook. Not the end of the world, but also wasn't the best kneaded dough either. I don't know if I'll ever want to make 50 bagels, but theoretically I could in this.
I guess I will have to drive out for 4 dozen jalapeno and cheddar bagels so you can try out the capacity of the machine. ;D
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Congrats on the new mixer FMT, those are sweet. Did you consider the Ankarsrum/Magic Mill? I've been looking at those.
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Congrats on the new mixer FMT, those are sweet. Did you consider the Ankarsrum/Magic Mill? I've been looking at those.
Yes. That was originally what I had planned on purchasing. After digging a bit deeper, I found some complaints when doing small amounts of dough as well as lower hydration doughs. More often than not I'm making a handful of bagels, 3 or 4 pizzas, or a few loaves of bread and don't do a ton of high Hydration stuff which seems to be what the ank excels at. The spiral mixers are known to better handle a small percentage of their capacity compared to the ank, although I've seen similar complaints about the smaller spirals as well.
I've only made the bagels and some honey wheat loaves, and the bagels were right at 1000 g of flour. I've read that 1000g flour is the sweet spot for "small" batches, but I haven't tried less yet. My normal pizza dough batch is slightly under that amount so I will most likely give it a try on a smaller batch. The specs claim it can do down to a total weight of 1.7 pound batch, but users seem to think it doesn't do as good of a job in that range.
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So you feel the spiral mixing action is just better the the Kitchen aid hook? Or is there something else that make it better?
Spiral is better then the J hook.
I have a Viking mixer with the J hook (similar to Kitchen-Aid), and dough keeps climbing the hook. Have to keep pushing it down.
This as well. A bagel batch with a total weight of 1600 g yields me 16 bagels. That pretty much maxed out the Kitchenaid. I would be constantly using a spatula to keep it from crawling up the hook. Not the end of the world, but also wasn't the best kneaded dough either. I don't know if I'll ever want to make 50 bagels, but theoretically I could in this.
I guess I will have to drive out for 4 dozen jalapeno and cheddar bagels so you can try out the capacity of the machine. ;D
Is there a place you've had amazing jalapeno cheddar bagels that I could look up on Yelp or Google? I'm kind of a weirdo and love to look up random joints in random cities and just go through their Yelp or Google photos. Gives me ideas and inspiration.
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>After digging a bit deeper, I found some complaints when
>doing small amounts of dough as well as lower hydration doughs
Ah, many of the video's for the Ank I've seen WERE working with pretty wet dough. Did you research the Bosch Universal Plus, and if so, what were you're thoughts for that with stiffer doughs?
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FMT, believe it or not, the best jalapeno cheddar bagels I have had were from Panera. It may be because they usually have a fair amount of jalapenos in them.
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also, have you ever made apple fritters? The Circle K across from the office of the company I work for had the best I have ever had. They had a nice amount of little squares of apples in them, a gummy type dough, and just the right amount of cinnamon.
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FMT, believe it or not, the best jalapeno cheddar bagels I have had were from Panera. It may be because they usually have a fair amount of jalapenos in them.
I have no idea what about your post resurrected this memory, but something right after I read it made me remember that my very first bbq competition is what made me want to start making my own bagels. Hopefully the following makes Bentley smile, and maybe Larry from above.
Pelletheads put out a feeler in I believe 2012 on their competition section that they were short a dessert cook for the Apex North Carolina comp. I had been toying with the idea of competing and wanted to see what they were all about. I didnt necessarily want to do dessert, but it would give me the opportunity to meet some pelletheads and get a feel for competitions.
A couple unexpected things happened on this trip. I was rerouted on google because of an hours long backup on the highway to the Blue Ridge Parkway. I was really ticked at the time because I just wanted to get to my hotel in Cary, NC after a 10 hour drive. It ended up being one of the most beautiful drives I've ever been on. It also is kind of cool now because my daughter just started college in Virginia and she goes to different spots on the Blue Ridge Parkway. So different than Indiana.
The second thing was an "OH, this is what a bagel is supposed to be" moment. Near my hotel in Cary, I went on Yelp or something looking for a breakfast spot. Found this place.
https://newyorkbagelanddelicarync.com/
I'm normally someone that tries out different spots when I'm out of town. I think I was in Cary for 3 days and went every morning. I specifically remember the pastrami and egg on everything bagel, but I know I tried other things. They were everything I hoped a bagel could be.
And all that is not to dump on Panera bagels. They are fine and I eat them often. There is a Panera literally 2 minutes from my front door. The ones from the place above (and hopefully mine) are on a different plane. Night and day. We have one specialty bagel shop here (which I think may have closed since Corona). They were good, not great. Other than that I live in a bagel wasteland, so Panera more than suffices in Fort Wayne.
Thank you for sparking some pleasant memories.
(https://i.imgur.com/sm6kT1el.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XPTm3AHl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sWqB4AUl.jpg)
P.S. Check the menu out in the link Lew. I assume being where you are located you are familiar with Taylor Ham. Had I known what it was at the time, I would have tried the Taylor Ham and egg bagel. I've only heard of it in the last 5 years, so I did not enjoy one back in 2012.
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also, have you ever made apple fritters? The Circle K across from the office of the company I work for had the best I have ever had. They had a nice amount of little squares of apples in them, a gummy type dough, and just the right amount of cinnamon.
This is a screenshot from Toms donuts in Fort Wayne (Upper right). It's the only apple fritter I've ever ate, and they are heavenly. Is what you are referring to like a donut with glaze? That's what these are. Ridiculously good. Although, I slightly prefer the applesauce donuts. Even better. It's been YEARS since I've had either.
(https://i.imgur.com/VsPAJqZl.jpg)
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>After digging a bit deeper, I found some complaints when
>doing small amounts of dough as well as lower hydration doughs
Ah, many of the video's for the Ank I've seen WERE working with pretty wet dough. Did you research the Bosch Universal Plus, and if so, what were you're thoughts for that with stiffer doughs?
Extraordinarily mixed reviews from what I read. Seemed to be a love it or hate it machine. No experience with it and don't know anyone who has used one. I personally don't care for the design and that was kind of a non starter for me. I do know a couple people that love the ank but they are mainly Neapolitan pizza guys and that seems to be it's wheelhouse.
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Yes, that is the type of apple fritter that I am talking about.
Yes, I have heard of Taylor ham. I am a ham and swiss on jalapeno and cheddar bagel breakfast sandwich guy. I don't eat eggs unless they are in a cake or something like that.
I just drove thru VA on Saturday on my way back home from MS. What school is she going to if you don't mind me asking? I drove by several on 81 on the way home. I hate the drive up and down thru the mountains with some winding roads. That area is a lot different than the flat Midwest that's for sure.
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Yes, that is the type of apple fritter that I am talking about.
Yes, I have heard of Taylor ham. I am a ham and swiss on jalapeno and cheddar bagel breakfast sandwich guy. I don't eat eggs unless they are in a cake or something like that.
I just drove thru VA on Saturday on my way back home from MS. What school is she going to if you don't mind me asking? I drove by several on 81 on the way home. I hate the drive up and down thru the mountains with some winding roads. That area is a lot different than the flat Midwest that's for sure.
She goes to Liberty in Lynchburg. It is a beautiful campus. I'm not a political person in the least, but I know that school has alot of political ties. If you leave all that out of the equation, it is just a really nice place to go to school.
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I was pondering the Apex Competition just yesterday. For the life of me I could not remember if you came in 2012 or 2013. The one picture is from the 2nd year 2013 I believe? That is Kristin's Tahoe (I had my Caravan in 2012) in the background and as returning champions, they put us in the very end spot that had the most room. I see Billy, OD and Todd, I am not sure who the other people are in the photo, I think I am on the far left, but the guy in blue no idea (I think that IS BIL behind him), the woman and the 2 in front of Billy's Trager, no idea.
Is 2013 when you came?
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All I can say is Wow If I bought that I would need to build a new kitchen. Um maybe that is not a bad idea
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I was pondering the Apex Competition just yesterday. For the life of me I could not remember if you came in 2012 or 2013. The one picture is from the 2nd year 2013 I believe? That is Kristin's Tahoe (I had my Caravan in 2012) in the background and as returning champions, they put us in the very end spot that had the most room. I see Billy, OD and Todd, I am not sure who the other people are in the photo, I think I am on the far left, but the guy in blue no idea (I think that IS BIL behind him), the woman and the 2 in front of Billy's Trager, no idea.
Is 2013 when you came?
You are correct. It was 2013. I checked the dates on the photos. The guy in the light blue shirt and visor is some guy (maybe Chris) that was a judge that had to get his cooking time in with teams. I think he was on bbq brethren and you saw his message looking for a willing team.
The woman behind toddler is his wife. BIL is to the right of Toddler. Pretty sure OD brought a couple buddies.
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You have a good memory. I remember the judge now that you bring it up. I think that is OD's nephew facing him. Not sure if Swamp Boy came that year or not. The other head looks like a woman.
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Yes, that is the type of apple fritter that I am talking about.
Yes, I have heard of Taylor ham. I am a ham and swiss on jalapeno and cheddar bagel breakfast sandwich guy. I don't eat eggs unless they are in a cake or something like that.
I just drove thru VA on Saturday on my way back home from MS. What school is she going to if you don't mind me asking? I drove by several on 81 on the way home. I hate the drive up and down thru the mountains with some winding roads. That area is a lot different than the flat Midwest that's for sure.
She goes to Liberty in Lynchburg. It is a beautiful campus. I'm not a political person in the least, but I know that school has alot of political ties. If you leave all that out of the equation, it is just a really nice place to go to school.
I attend Liberty as well, but online. I plan to actually visit the school when I graduate from Seminary from there.
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Free Mr. Tony and Bentley,
I gotta say... your Apex/Cary/bagel post, and Bentley’s response about the Apex, NC bbq competition, really hit the “it’s a small world “ bullseye for me.
Apex and Cary are suburbs of Raleigh in the “Triangle†region of NC (where I’m from).
I competed in those Apex comps during those years (2012/13). Placed middle of the pack as usual but we had a blast and may or may not have closed down a bar or two those nights since the comp site was right in downtown.
But this goes even further, and I’m kinda shocked at the coincidence that the NY Bagel & Deli in Cary, NC was the spark for your incredible bagel baking. I worked in commercial real estate and was the leasing guy for that shopping center. I signed that business to their first and second lease in that location. I’ve eaten there 100 times I’m sure. Got to walk through the kitchen to see them in action making bagels, awesome italian bread, and other baked goods.
You are right. They are fantastic bagels... probably as good as it gets in this area.
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Free Mr. Tony and Bentley,
I gotta say... your Apex/Cary/bagel post, and Bentley’s response about the Apex, NC bbq competition, really hit the “it’s a small world “ bullseye for me.
Apex and Cary are suburbs of Raleigh in the “Triangle†region of NC (where I’m from).
I competed in those Apex comps during those years (2012/13). Placed middle of the pack as usual but we had a blast and may or may not have closed down a bar or two those nights since the comp site was right in downtown.
But this goes even further, and I’m kinda shocked at the coincidence that the NY Bagel & Deli in Cary, NC was the spark for your incredible bagel baking. I worked in commercial real estate and was the leasing guy for that shopping center. I signed that business to their first and second lease in that location. I’ve eaten there 100 times I’m sure. Got to walk through the kitchen to see them in action making bagels, awesome italian bread, and other baked goods.
You are right. They are fantastic bagels... probably as good as it gets in this area.
Wow, that is pretty crazy. I wish I would have known you at the time. I would have closed down the bar with you. The pelletheads team weren't drinkers (anymore at least) for the most part. If you ever talk to the owners, tell them they inspired someone from Indiana to attempt to make bagels that were as tasty as the ones they sell.
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Yes, that is the type of apple fritter that I am talking about.
Yes, I have heard of Taylor ham. I am a ham and swiss on jalapeno and cheddar bagel breakfast sandwich guy. I don't eat eggs unless they are in a cake or something like that.
I just drove thru VA on Saturday on my way back home from MS. What school is she going to if you don't mind me asking? I drove by several on 81 on the way home. I hate the drive up and down thru the mountains with some winding roads. That area is a lot different than the flat Midwest that's for sure.
She goes to Liberty in Lynchburg. It is a beautiful campus. I'm not a political person in the least, but I know that school has alot of political ties. If you leave all that out of the equation, it is just a really nice place to go to school.
I attend Liberty as well, but online. I plan to actually visit the school when I graduate from Seminary from there.
It is definitely worth a visit.
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At the 2012 Competition, I do not remember the name of it, but I bought 3 beef cuts in a Meat Market in Cary and had them grind if for me for the Friday Night Burgers. They were one of the sponsors of the event I believe, very good blend for the burgers, some of the best I have ever had.
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They now operate under the name Butcher’s Market. We give their gift cards to clients for Christmas.
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These wouldn't win any beauty contests, but the dough structure is better than any I've done of this style before. The mixer really does make beautiful dough. Still need some major practice with shaping and scoring.
(https://i.imgur.com/l6UfNlHl.jpg)
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These wouldn't win any beauty contests, but the dough structure is better than any I've done of this style before. The mixer really does make beautiful dough. Still need some major practice with shaping and scoring.
(https://i.imgur.com/l6UfNlHl.jpg)
Look good to me. :clap:
Scoring is a pain for me too. Some make it look so easy. The blade just drags and pulls the dough with it for me.
Making Sourdough this week, going to try pulling the lame faster to see if that makes any difference.
What's the smallest amount of dough you've made in the new mixer ?
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I think they look good, the color and texture is very Artisan! I cant score or egg wash without completely destroying the rise from the proof, so I just quit. I tried to make some hogie rolls using a 9 x 13 like I saw Big Dave doing with his rolls. Good technique, i just think i cooked them at to high a heat to get the soft outer crust!
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These wouldn't win any beauty contests, but the dough structure is better than any I've done of this style before. The mixer really does make beautiful dough. Still need some major practice with shaping and scoring.
(https://i.imgur.com/l6UfNlHl.jpg)
Look good to me. :clap:
Scoring is a pain for me too. Some make it look so easy. The blade just drags and pulls the dough with it for me.
Making Sourdough this week, going to try pulling the lame faster to see if that makes any difference.
What's the smallest amount of dough you've made in the new mixer ?
I did some cheddar pinwheels for my son a few days ago. It was approximately 665 grams total (about 1.5 pounds). It did not mix nearly as well as a larger batch, but still miles better than the kitchenaid.
These baguettes were 1360 g total and it did a really nice job with them.
I've been pretty impressed with the lower end of what it can handle. It was one of the main things I was concerned about when purchasing because I don't do huge batches often. It is nice to have the capacity. I made 32 bagels the other day and the mixer handled it with ease.
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My first go with a laminated dough. It was a pain in the xxx, and I had many moments where I nearly scrapped the project. I'm sure a real baker could pick apart what went wrong, but ultimately the final product didn't turn out all that much different than the picture from the book it came from. The recipe was from Mastering Bread by Marc Vetri and Claire Kopp McWilliams.
Very rich and flaky. Awesome with a little jam spread to offset the richness.
Having fun with the mixer nonetheless. Cinnamon swirl bread is next up at my daughter's request before she goes back to school in Virginia.
(https://i.imgur.com/N2Um1CZl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/32yBeRll.jpg)
Picture from the book.
(https://i.imgur.com/2o0txyVl.jpg)
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I think they look good, the color and texture is very Artisan! I cant score or egg wash without completely destroying the rise from the proof, so I just quit. I tried to make some hogie rolls using a 9 x 13 like I saw Big Dave doing with his rolls. Good technique, i just think i cooked them at to high a heat to get the soft outer crust!
Just from recent experience with the new mixer, I would think that your dough is under developed and/or overproofed.
If your dough deflates when scoring it could be technique or more than likely the dough is past it's prime for scoring. If it's under mixed it may not have the strength to hold up to the score as well.
The smoothness that this mixer produces along with gluten development have really opened my eyes to what dough should be like at certain stages in the process.
That being said, even the stuff that doesn't go perfect is usually still awesome to eat. I make a ton of croutons with my "experiments" so not much goes to waste at least.
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I made bread pudding with the last failure!
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They look good to me
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My first go with a laminated dough. It was a pain in the xxx, and I had many moments where I nearly scrapped the project. I'm sure a real baker could pick apart what went wrong, but ultimately the final product didn't turn out all that much different than the picture from the book it came from. The recipe was from Mastering Bread by Marc Vetri and Claire Kopp McWilliams.
Very rich and flaky. Awesome with a little jam spread to offset the richness.
Having fun with the mixer nonetheless. Cinnamon swirl bread is next up at my daughter's request before she goes back to school in Virginia.
(https://i.imgur.com/N2Um1CZl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/32yBeRll.jpg)
Picture from the book.
(https://i.imgur.com/2o0txyVl.jpg)
I think yours look better then the ones in the book.
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I agree that FMT's pic looks better than the book too