Pellet Fan

All Things Considered => General Discussion--Non food Related => Topic started by: Bob The Smoker on May 16, 2022, 04:21:57 PM

Title: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on May 16, 2022, 04:21:57 PM
I got my Tesla a few months ago. I had a Chevy Volt before that and it spoiled me. I had free charging at work before I retired.
The Tesla has cost me about $35 in charging at home. I had to put gas in my truck last week and spent $22 and did not even get a 1/4 tank.

Quote:
I filled my tank the other day for $20. Granted it was my lawn mower, but it pays to be positive.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 16, 2022, 04:52:29 PM
I got my Tesla a few months ago. I had a Chevy Volt before that and it spoiled me. I had free charging at work before I retired.
The Tesla has cost me about $35 in charging at home. I had to put gas in my truck last week and spent $22 and did not even get a 1/4 tank.

Quote:
I filled my tank the other day for $20. Granted it was my lawn mower, but it pays to be positive.

What model Tesla ? "If" I buy another car, it will be all electric.
The short version - Test drove a model S once. A woman at a strip mall pretty much insisted I take her car for a drive.  How could I refuse.
So many are getting in the the bandwagon for all electric.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: hughver on May 16, 2022, 05:33:33 PM
Even though my loaded 2019 Toyota Highlander only has 10,000 miles on it, I too am considering a plug-in hybrid. Am waiting for one with a little more range.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 16, 2022, 05:58:58 PM
Even though my loaded 2019 Toyota Highlander only has 10,000 miles on it, I too am considering a plug-in hybrid. Am waiting for one with a little more range.

They are out there, just not cheap.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: okie smokie on May 16, 2022, 06:03:15 PM
Even though my loaded 2019 Toyota Highlander only has 10,000 miles on it, I too am considering a plug-in hybrid. Am waiting for one with a little more range.

They are out there, just not cheap.
Some already have 300 mile range. Kio Niro I think is one.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on May 16, 2022, 06:33:55 PM
I have asked Bently to move this discussion to Non Food.

I bought a Model Y that I ordered in September of '21. The EPA range is 330 miles. That is not real world range. I drive 5 mph over the speed limit (and I get passed a lot) so I drive 75 mph on the highways. I live in Orlando so the A/C is on most of the time. For me, the real world range is more like 290. For the sake of battery life, I only charge to 90%. I am going to the Keys in a few weeks so I will have a better idea of what my true range is. Right now I think I can make it to Marathon with 2 20 minute charging stops. Some say that they can fill their tank in under 5 minutes. I am older so I will need to have a bathroom break, stretch my legs and probably get some liquid to drink. That just about kills 20 minutes. I also will only charge to 80%. Once you get to 80%, the charging time gets much, much longer. Why wait longer when you can just add one more charging stop (and pee again).
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 16, 2022, 06:47:52 PM
I have asked Bently to move this discussion to Non Food.

I bought a Model Y that I ordered in September of '21. The EPA range is 330 miles. That is not real world range. I drive 5 mph over the speed limit (and I get passed a lot) so I drive 75 mph on the highways. I live in Orlando so the A/C is on most of the time. For me, the real world range is more like 290. For the sake of battery life, I only charge to 90%. I am going to the Keys in a few weeks so I will have a better idea of what my true range is. Right now I think I can make it to Marathon with 2 20 minute charging stops. Some say that they can fill their tank in under 5 minutes. I am older so I will need to have a bathroom break, stretch my legs and probably get some liquid to drink. That just about kills 20 minutes. I also will only charge to 80%. Once you get to 80%, the charging time gets much, much longer. Why wait longer when you can just add one more charging stop (and pee again).
I want the Model S Plaid. 1000Hp and 0-60 in 1.99 seconds.  Sigh, it's nice to dream.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: ylr on May 17, 2022, 01:13:22 AM

I want the Model S Plaid. 1000Hp and 0-60 in 1.99 seconds.  Sigh, it's nice to dream.

Would you buy an electric Corvette if they offered one someday?
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Kristin Meredith on May 17, 2022, 07:01:37 AM
How long to charge your Tesla if it is "on empty"?  When you do the 20 minute charge, how many miles can you go (highway speed) before you need to charge again?
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: urnmor on May 17, 2022, 07:46:49 AM
I did place my name on the list for the new tesla truck. There over 3 million now on the wait list
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 17, 2022, 10:02:38 AM

I want the Model S Plaid. 1000Hp and 0-60 in 1.99 seconds.  Sigh, it's nice to dream.

Would you buy an electric Corvette if they offered one someday?

At some point they will have an electric corvette. Several automakers have said they are committed to having all electric cars by year 20xx.
Definitely would buy one if I had the money!!!  Retired now, so probably not.   :'(
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on May 17, 2022, 10:47:12 AM
Kristin. I have never run it down to 0 miles. Most owners will only let it get down to 20% (sometimes 10% if they know they can make it to the next charging station or home).
The average time to go from 20% to 80% is about 20 minutes at Tesla Superchargers. Much longer at 3rd party chargers. I was checking this morning about my trip to the Keys.
It looks like if I have 90% charge before I leave, I can make it to the Supercharger in Homestead with 20% left. About a 20 minute charge there will get me to Marathon and back to Homestead if the Superchargers in Marathon are not working (rare but happens sometimes. Vandalism usually). There is always the charger you carry with you. Worst case is use the 110 volt adapter. That will add about 2 to 4 miles of range per hour. Plug in overnight and you can get to a charger. Better case is use the 220 volt adapter and put on 15 to 17 miles per hour. I used to plug into my parents dryer outlet with my Volt. I can give you my real world results after the Keys trip.
Road trips are the only time you need to do any planning. We can do a lot of local running around without charging more than once a week at home. I charge after 9 PM so I get a lower rate and I get $10 monthly discount for charging during off-peak hours.
I have spent around $35 on electric since I bout the car.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 17, 2022, 11:08:39 AM
Kristin. I have never run it down to 0 miles. Most owners will only let it get down to 20% (sometimes 10% if they know they can make it to the next charging station or home).
The average time to go from 20% to 80% is about 20 minutes at Tesla Superchargers. Much longer at 3rd party chargers. I was checking this morning about my trip to the Keys.
It looks like if I have 90% charge before I leave, I can make it to the Supercharger in Homestead with 20% left. About a 20 minute charge there will get me to Marathon and back to Homestead if the Superchargers in Marathon are not working (rare but happens sometimes. Vandalism usually). There is always the charger you carry with you. Worst case is use the 110 volt adapter. That will add about 2 to 4 miles of range per hour. Plug in overnight and you can get to a charger. Better case is use the 220 volt adapter and put on 15 to 17 miles per hour. I used to plug into my parents dryer outlet with my Volt. I can give you my real world results after the Keys trip.
Road trips are the only time you need to do any planning. We can do a lot of local running around without charging more than once a week at home. I charge after 9 PM so I get a lower rate and I get $10 monthly discount for charging during off-peak hours.
I have spent around $35 on electric since I bout the car.
I bough a 240V charger for the Volt.  The 120V charger stays in the trunk.
Can you explain the 240V adapter ?
Don't understand how you can use a 240V adapter with a 120V charger to charge faster.

What if you run out of juice in the middle of nowhere ?
DO have to get towed, of does Tesla have a plan to come out and get you going ?
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Kristin Meredith on May 17, 2022, 11:09:52 AM
Bob, thanks for so much great info.  I know people with hybrids, but no all electric so I am very curious about many things.  Tesla offered to put some chargers in our free public parking lots in Culpeper, but the town refused (still don't know why).  My investment advisors have their own land/building/parking lot and they have one which can charge two cars at a time and tell me it is in use a lot of evenings. If someone was visiting Culpeper and needed a charge, it might be difficult.

If you need to use just a 110 volt overnight at a hotel, how does that work?
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 17, 2022, 11:14:27 AM
Bob, thanks for so much great info.  I know people with hybrids, but no all electric so I am very curious about many things.  Tesla offered to put some chargers in our free public parking lots in Culpeper, but the town refused (still don't know why).  My investment advisors have their own land/building/parking lot and they have one which can charge two cars at a time and tell me it is in use a lot of evenings. If someone was visiting Culpeper and needed a charge, it might be difficult.

If you need to use just a 110 volt overnight at a hotel, how does that work?

I can answer that.  You need a hotel that has a 120V outlet they will let you use.  The outlet is nothing special, just 120V/215A.
The hard part is finding an outlet, let alone, permission from the hotel.
Then there is the risk of someone stealing your charger.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: JoeGrilling on May 17, 2022, 01:06:42 PM
Bob, thanks for so much great info.  I know people with hybrids, but no all electric so I am very curious about many things.  Tesla offered to put some chargers in our free public parking lots in Culpeper, but the town refused (still don't know why).  My investment advisors have their own land/building/parking lot and they have one which can charge two cars at a time and tell me it is in use a lot of evenings. If someone was visiting Culpeper and needed a charge, it might be difficult.

If you need to use just a 110 volt overnight at a hotel, how does that work?
Toyota has been pretty slow to join the 100% electric vehicle market because of the lack of infrastructure.  They have done very well with hybrids and happy to focus their current efforts there.  My wife has a coworker with a 50 mile commute and he purchased a Tesla Model 3.  His plan was to charge his vehicle at work on a charger provided by his office building that no one seemed to be using.  Well there was a reason for that.  The charger was broken and the building management had no plans to fix it.  So on to plan B and charge it at home.  It turns out the home he was renting did not have 220 VAC in the garage.  Charging time on 110VAC overnight was excessive and did not cover his commute.  Fortunately, a neighbor had a 220 VAC charger and he uses it. 
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on May 17, 2022, 01:27:05 PM
The second generation Volts came with a charger that was wired for 110 volt but you could buy/make an adapter that you plug into 240 volt and the charger would auto-sense what it was connected to.
The charger itself would run on either. Tesla (used to) come with a home charger. It came with a 110 volt plug that could be removed and replaced with a NEMA 14-50 or 14-30 plug for about $50 each.
If you run out of charge, you contact Tesla Roadside Assistance and they will arrange to have you towed to a charging station. My guess would be a very long wait so that is why I plan way ahead. I have heard that some of their new service vans have a large battery that they can give you enough charge to get you to a charging station.

Some people use a cable lock they run trough their wheels to lock the charger in place at hotels. Never did it myself with the Volt because I could just use gas.
A lot of hotels are having Tesla Destination Chargers installed. They don't require high DC current that the Superchargers use, just 240 volt connections. These are seen as a perk for guest. I know some people will search for a a hotel with these chargers and are willing to pay a little more a night but have a piece of mind that they will have a full charge the next morning.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on May 17, 2022, 01:47:23 PM
Funny. I just noticed that under my user name it says "Using Less Gas".
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 17, 2022, 01:54:53 PM
The second generation Volts came with a charger that was wired for 110 volt but you could buy/make an adapter that you plug into 240 volt and the charger would auto-sense what it was connected to.
The charger itself would run on either. Tesla (used to) come with a home charger. It came with a 110 volt plug that could be removed and replaced with a NEMA 14-50 or 14-30 plug for about $50 each.
If you run out of charge, you contact Tesla Roadside Assistance and they will arrange to have you towed to a charging station. My guess would be a very long wait so that is why I plan way ahead. I have heard that some of their new service vans have a large battery that they can give you enough charge to get you to a charging station.

Some people use a cable lock they run trough their wheels to lock the charger in place at hotels. Never did it myself with the Volt because I could just use gas.
A lot of hotels are having Tesla Destination Chargers installed. They don't require high DC current that the Superchargers use, just 240 volt connections. These are seen as a perk for guest. I know some people will search for a a hotel with these chargers and are willing to pay a little more a night but have a piece of mind that they will have a full charge the next morning.

Thanks for the info Bob.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: elenis on May 18, 2022, 09:26:46 AM
I own a Honda Clarity PHEV and depending on weather and how I am driving I can go around 50 miles all electric. I test drove a Volt, but the car was too small to fit my family comfortably.  I just have the level 1 charger that came with my vehicle at this point, but I am  going to be installing a 50amp circuit and a level 2 charger in my garage soon. My car only supports charging at up to 32Amps, but that won't be the case in the future when I go all electric. I couldn't imagine having a full electric and trying to get by on a level 1 charger since it takes like 12 hours on a level 1 charger with my plug in hybrid. I think the big thing going forward if your looking at non-tesla's for electric vehicles it is all about looking for the new 800v platforms so that you can support the really fast DC Fast charging. With those on those chargers you can go from near empty to 80% charge in around 18 minutes, which when your adding several hundred miles during that time gives you a chance to stretch your legs, hit the bathroom, and get snacks and your on your way. 
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 18, 2022, 10:40:11 AM
My Volt has the level 1 charger.  The 240V charger for it  that I have in the garage is only 20A. Four hours for full charge.
If you are going to put a 50A circuit in, I suggest running wire capable of handling 60 or 80 amp to future-proof it. I think Tesla's use 60A now. Larger wire is more efficient anyway.
Circuit Breakers are easy to change, pulling new wiring isn't.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: BigDave83 on May 18, 2022, 11:54:13 AM
I can not see me ever buying an electric where I live. Hybrid possibly. My closest charging are Tesla chargers about 10 miles away. after that the next closest is easy 20+.

 Terrain here is either up or down very little level driving. Being 350 pounds I doubt that the 330 miles or what ever they claim to get would apply to me in it, add some more stuff and another person and probably game over. Also they do not look like they would be easy to get in and out of for me.

 I did watch a few videos on the Rivian not sure how they charge, or how any of it actually works, but they would be more my style.

Is a charger a charger, meaning if I bought a Rivian or another brand electric can I charge it at a Tesla station or do I need to find another way if I am away from home?

What is the cost to charge at different places? I never looked at the Tesla station, do you just swipe a credit card?

edit to add.
Living where it snows a lot, curious as to how the electronics hold up to the wet and the salt in the winter. I see what it does to the under side of vehicles now.

I guess my other thought is as the number of electric vehicles increase on the road, how will that work with the grid. In a lot of areas the grid seems to be insufficient currently, I doubt it will be built up to handle the added load easily and quickly. Power plants closing and around me coal is king, they are trying to put coal fired plants out of business. Taking power plants out and increasing the demand seems like what we are going through now with fuel and gas prices.

Not sure there is a winning outcome for consumers of either electric or petroleum fueled vehicles.

Seems like a good solution would be garbage incinerators to produce electricity instead of land fills or dumping it in the ocean. Although the air scrubbers could make that cost prohibitive.

edit to ask

I live where it snows a lot in the winter, how do the electronics handle the wet and more importantly the salt used on the roads.

 
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 18, 2022, 12:09:46 PM
If you google tesla charging stations, you can get to a map that shows 4500+ in north America, with the majority on the east coast, so there must be cars there.
I don't thing your climate would be an issue.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: BigDave83 on May 18, 2022, 01:30:06 PM
there may be cars on the east coast, I do see a few around where I live. Just 2 charging stations in the county I live in. They are just off or on the PA turnpike. I would think if that road didn't go through the county there would not be any in Somerset county.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 18, 2022, 01:39:25 PM
I'm sure they install them where higher populations are.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on May 18, 2022, 05:59:28 PM
I own a Honda Clarity PHEV and depending on weather and how I am driving I can go around 50 miles all electric. I test drove a Volt, but the car was too small to fit my family comfortably.  I just have the level 1 charger that came with my vehicle at this point, but I am  going to be installing a 50amp circuit and a level 2 charger in my garage soon. My car only supports charging at up to 32Amps, but that won't be the case in the future when I go all electric. I couldn't imagine having a full electric and trying to get by on a level 1 charger since it takes like 12 hours on a level 1 charger with my plug in hybrid. I think the big thing going forward if your looking at non-tesla's for electric vehicles it is all about looking for the new 800v platforms so that you can support the really fast DC Fast charging. With those on those chargers you can go from near empty to 80% charge in around 18 minutes, which when your adding several hundred miles during that time gives you a chance to stretch your legs, hit the bathroom, and get snacks and your on your way.

I agree fully that the Clarity is a better family car than the Volt for size. I did not like the way the Clarity incorporates with the ICE (internal combustion engine) sometimes but overall it is still a good platform.

I have to add that we (including me) are using some wrong terms. The cable we use to connect the the wall to the car is nothing more than a charging cable. It is not a charger. The car has an on-board charger that takes A/C from the wall and converts it into DC that charges the battery. That is why most modern charging stations are DC fast chargers. DC fast charging puts power directly into the battery. On board chargers built into cars convert AC power to DC power to charge the batteries. Older platforms including most Volts and Claritys can only handle 32 amps to convert to DC. If you hard wire a Tesla Home Charger to a 60 amp circuit that can provide 48 amps at 11 kw which will give you 42 miles per hour in a model Y. This what I researched from the web. Not first hand experience.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 18, 2022, 06:07:02 PM
I guess I don't understand why my 240V "charger" has such a large box then if it is doing no conversion.
Why wouldn't they just sell you a cable that has a 240V xA plug on one end and the car plug on the other ?
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: elenis on May 19, 2022, 08:13:24 AM
I guess I don't understand why my 240V "charger" has such a large box then if it is doing no conversion.
Why wouldn't they just sell you a cable that has a 240V xA plug on one end and the car plug on the other ?

If you check out Amazon you basically can go that route. I am looking at a ChargePoint for my garage and I think the reason it has the box primarily is for the extra smart features and what it takes to hold those, since I know if I wanted to be cheap I could just get an adapter and use the plug that came with my car and save a whole lot of money. I am part of an electric co-op so they don't do any of the time of use power or any of that kind of thing thankfully. So I don't really need to schedule my charging for certain times or anything, but I like knowing additional information and perhaps in the future that will be pertinent information.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: elenis on May 19, 2022, 08:16:04 AM
I can not see me ever buying an electric where I live. Hybrid possibly. My closest charging are Tesla chargers about 10 miles away. after that the next closest is easy 20+.

 Terrain here is either up or down very little level driving. Being 350 pounds I doubt that the 330 miles or what ever they claim to get would apply to me in it, add some more stuff and another person and probably game over. Also they do not look like they would be easy to get in and out of for me.

 I did watch a few videos on the Rivian not sure how they charge, or how any of it actually works, but they would be more my style.

Is a charger a charger, meaning if I bought a Rivian or another brand electric can I charge it at a Tesla station or do I need to find another way if I am away from home?

What is the cost to charge at different places? I never looked at the Tesla station, do you just swipe a credit card?

edit to add.
Living where it snows a lot, curious as to how the electronics hold up to the wet and the salt in the winter. I see what it does to the under side of vehicles now.

I guess my other thought is as the number of electric vehicles increase on the road, how will that work with the grid. In a lot of areas the grid seems to be insufficient currently, I doubt it will be built up to handle the added load easily and quickly. Power plants closing and around me coal is king, they are trying to put coal fired plants out of business. Taking power plants out and increasing the demand seems like what we are going through now with fuel and gas prices.

Not sure there is a winning outcome for consumers of either electric or petroleum fueled vehicles.

Seems like a good solution would be garbage incinerators to produce electricity instead of land fills or dumping it in the ocean. Although the air scrubbers could make that cost prohibitive.

edit to ask

I live where it snows a lot in the winter, how do the electronics handle the wet and more importantly the salt used on the roads.

I hope I can answer some of this for you. My closest charging stations are probably 15 minutes away or so, but pretty much everything is where I live. I would imagine unless you’re doing long trips the vast majority of charging would be done with a level 2 charger at home. The nice thing about the up and down driving is that on the way down you get some regeneration. Your weight won’t make a big deal to the car’s mileage, the amount of climate control you use has much greater effect. I haven’t been in a Tesla, but they aren’t necessarily what I am looking at anyways because from an initial quality standpoint they rate poorly. I do believe Tesla seems to have superior battery chemistry though.

Charger wise there is basically Tesla and then everybody else at this point. Tesla is looking to open up their chargers to non-Tesla folks in the near future and with the legislation going on in Europe I believe Tesla is going to have to change the connector they use there which might lead them to do the same one everywhere. My car only supports AC charging and uses the J1772 plug. The plug that allows AC or DC fast charging is called CCS and basically part of the CCS plug is the J1772 so you can use either. So, until Tesla opens it up you wouldn’t be able to use the closest charging station with a non-Tesla. Cost wise to charge at a station you’re typically looking at $.30-.60 a kWh so depending on how many kWh’s your battery holds it could run from $11-45. Average cost per kWh at home is $.12. Most charging stations seem to be owned by one of a few companies and typically you just sign up for an app on your phone that you tie to a payment method and when you get to a station you open your app and point it at the charger and away you go.

We use a lot of salt on the roads here in Ohio as well and it doesn’t make electric cars rust anymore then ones running on gas. The battery cells are all packed and protected from the elements as well as protected from collisions.

Power wise the huge push is obviously for renewables, but the big issue at this point is they need to work on more grid level storage. Solar panels, like I have on my house, and wind are great when it is sunny and it is windy, but those aren’t necessarily always there. I know when I installed solar the payback was pretty quick as long as I didn’t add batteries and so that is what I did. So now I still get to experience power outages when the grid is down, but my project will only take 8 years to break even. If I would have added batteries it would have taken potentially 25 years.
Car wise I am really interested in the Fisker Ocean when it comes to my next one.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on May 19, 2022, 09:37:01 AM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ev-adoption-behavioral-changes-101718236.html

One article that supports the theory that the CA power grid can't support full conversion to electric vehicles.

Also, not sure how those at middle class or below afford an electric car if gas cars are to be phased out at some point.  And, how much does it cost to replace the battery in these electric or hybrid cars.  I bet that 75% of the country doesn't have enough money in their savings account to cover such a cost.

I applaud those making the transition, but I don't think it is feasible for the entire country to transition within the timelines that have been established for at least these few reasons at a minimum.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: elenis on May 19, 2022, 11:21:56 AM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ev-adoption-behavioral-changes-101718236.html

One article that supports the theory that the CA power grid can't support full conversion to electric vehicles.

Also, not sure how those at middle class or below afford an electric car if gas cars are to be phased out at some point.  And, how much does it cost to replace the battery in these electric or hybrid cars.  I bet that 75% of the country doesn't have enough money in their savings account to cover such a cost.

I applaud those making the transition, but I don't think it is feasible for the entire country to transition within the timelines that have been established for at least these few reasons at a minimum.

I doubt the grid as it stands can handle the full transition to electric as well. Price wise the middle class and below will be able to afford electric cars the same as gas going forward. Volume reduces cost which allows for lower prices, they are also working on battery chemistries that use less exotic materials and as that occurs the cost is reduced as well. The other big thing is if you look at cars like the Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf in the used area a few year old car is right in line with gas equivalents. Replacement batteries are around 10k, but most people aren't going to replace them they would just get a new vehicle. The bigger thing is how much this is going to cause issues for the car service industry. Tire rotations and replacement tires and eventually replacement brakes are typically all your going to need. I just had my Clarity in for service and they said at the rate it is going I am going to get 100k+ miles out of my brakes because regenerative braking handles the majority of the slowing and not my pads. The much more difficult thing they need to work on if they want to hit goals for stopping the use of gas is going to be when we talk about Semis and things like tractors.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 19, 2022, 12:24:06 PM
The much more difficult thing they need to work on if they want to hit goals for stopping the use of gas is going to be when we talk about Semis and things like tractors.

There is a farm in California that is using Electric tractors.
They have a truck that goes out to the field and can recharge two of them, eliminating the need for the tractors to go back to a charging station.
I saw it on TV several months ago.
Forgot the name, but a company mods standard tractors to run off batteries.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on May 19, 2022, 12:41:29 PM
The USPS was supposed to buy a fleet of trucks that were electric.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: BigDave83 on May 19, 2022, 01:19:44 PM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ev-adoption-behavioral-changes-101718236.html

One article that supports the theory that the CA power grid can't support full conversion to electric vehicles.

Also, not sure how those at middle class or below afford an electric car if gas cars are to be phased out at some point.  And, how much does it cost to replace the battery in these electric or hybrid cars.  I bet that 75% of the country doesn't have enough money in their savings account to cover such a cost.

I applaud those making the transition, but I don't think it is feasible for the entire country to transition within the timelines that have been established for at least these few reasons at a minimum.

When I worked we sold some replacement batteries. Mostly Prius as they were the main one at the time. They were 900-1000 to a shop so end user was probably closer to 1400-1500 plus installation.

For where I currently live I don't think it would be effective for me for a few reasons, driving habits, my size, need to haul things, lack of charging methods away from home depending on where I go.

As for weight not being an issue whether it is mine or what I decide to haul, that I believe is false. Pick up any battery or even corded tool like a drill, sander, saw now put a load on it and listen to what happens to it. Same thing as going up a hill with an extra 500 pounds of cargo.

The regeneration part do these actually charge the battery at times or just not pull as much out of it. I remember a while back reading about some had something built in to the braking system to help to recharge slightly, although I don't remember how it worked.

 
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: urnmor on May 19, 2022, 01:26:36 PM

Also, not sure how those at middle class or below afford an electric car if gas cars are to be phased out at some point.  And, how much does it cost to replace the battery in these electric or hybrid cars.  I bet that 75% of the country doesn't have enough money in their savings account to cover such a cost.

IMO I do not believe that gas powered gas will be phased out for a very long time if at all. Why because of lack of confidence and or trust in electric cars to get you from point A to B in a timely manner especially long distances.  Many of us have family that live 100s if not a thousand or more miles away. Which means we would want an electric car that can go at least 3 or 4 hundred miles in a single charge (at least I would). 
As to trust again IMO it is like paying bills on line.  Id however I want to receive the hard copy in the mail just incase the internet or computer is down.  I feel the same way about cars I would want a gas powered car if  I needed to get to a destination a long distance away in the shortest amount of time. Right now I believe most electric cars are designed for in an around driving

Just my thoughts and yes I will purchase an electric car when they will give 4 or 5 hundred miles at a price competitive with a gas powered car
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 19, 2022, 04:13:38 PM
IMO I do not believe that gas powered gas will be phased out for a very long time if at all. Why because of lack of confidence and or trust in electric cars to get you from point A to B in a timely manner especially long distances.  Many of us have family that live 100s if not a thousand or more miles away. Which means we would want an electric car that can go at least 3 or 4 hundred miles in a single charge (at least I would). 
As to trust again IMO it is like paying bills on line.  Id however I want to receive the hard copy in the mail just incase the internet or computer is down.  I feel the same way about cars I would want a gas powered car if  I needed to get to a destination a long distance away in the shortest amount of time. Right now I believe most electric cars are designed for in an around driving

Just my thoughts and yes I will purchase an electric car when they will give 4 or 5 hundred miles at a price competitive with a gas powered car

It will take time. The infrastructure for gas/diesel vehicles is in place.  I'm sure there was the same skepticism when Henry Ford started the automotive revolution.
Once the infrastructure is in place for electric vehicles, more people will have confidence to buy one.
More and more electric vehicles are coming out with 300+ mile range.  We'll get there...

Either all vehicles will have to use the same plug, or charging stations will need to provide for the different types.  Just like different fuel types for different vehicles now.

Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on May 19, 2022, 05:11:25 PM
I guess you got to get started somewhere.  It could probably work a little better and faster if the government and the public sector worked closer together.  If the government could help in providing the infrastructure to make it happen, the public industry could execute design, production, and delivery to lots (under closer to normal non-disrupted supply chain conditions).
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: BigDave83 on May 19, 2022, 05:17:01 PM
they have been working on hydrogen powered vehicles for years, but not much is heard about them these days.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 19, 2022, 05:54:13 PM
Something I forgot all about until now.  They are building roads that can wirelessly charge your vehicle as you drive.
A big project, but would be the ideal way to go.
See some info here -->  intelligentliving dot co/roads-that-charge-electric-cars-wirelessly-springing-up-everywhere/
It's not a link I replaced the . with <space>dot<space>
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: W6YJ on May 19, 2022, 07:33:20 PM
Los Angeles Fire recently took possesion of their first all electric fire rig.

At $1.2M, it was very similar in  final costs relative to a diesel powered rig.

Likely the biggest negative is its range / run time at about 1 hour underf full load.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: WiPelletHead on May 19, 2022, 08:43:11 PM
Los Angeles Fire recently took possesion of their first all electric fire rig.

At $1.2M, it was very similar in  final costs relative to a diesel powered rig.

Likely the biggest negative is its range / run time at about 1 hour underf full load.

After one hour what is their plan? Wouldn't seem like that would be enough time to do much.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Kristin Meredith on May 20, 2022, 07:22:55 AM
FD are pretty close in LA, so I can't see one having to travel a lot of distance to get to a fire in their zone, unless it was a mutual aid situation.  In that case, I assume they would just have to leave it at the station.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: W6YJ on May 20, 2022, 12:56:54 PM
Kristin is correct with responding to calls in a high density area.

One advantage to liging in an urban environment (did I really just type that????)

Urban Fire Code puts response time goals of around 6 minutes.

Los Angeles is a little outside the desred window at 7 minutes. Even adding on the return-to-station time of 5 minutes gives the rig a 48 minute on-scene time using an all electric rig.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: pmillen on May 20, 2022, 06:15:33 PM
I read that Toyota is quite far along on their Hydrogen vehicle.  As I read it I was thinking that it was a fuel cell powering a motor.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: WiPelletHead on May 20, 2022, 07:29:26 PM
Kristin is correct with responding to calls in a high density area.

One advantage to liging in an urban environment (did I really just type that????)

Urban Fire Code puts response time goals of around 6 minutes.

Los Angeles is a little outside the desred window at 7 minutes. Even adding on the return-to-station time of 5 minutes gives the rig a 48 minute on-scene time using an all electric rig.

I'm thinking about more than the time to get to the site and a return to the station. Where i live I'm used to a fire trucks engine running the entire time they are at the scene of the fire. Maybe it's different in LA, I don't know is why I asked.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Kristin Meredith on May 20, 2022, 07:56:00 PM
Kristin is correct with responding to calls in a high density area.

One advantage to liging in an urban environment (did I really just type that????)

Urban Fire Code puts response time goals of around 6 minutes.

Los Angeles is a little outside the desred window at 7 minutes. Even adding on the return-to-station time of 5 minutes gives the rig a 48 minute on-scene time using an all electric rig.

I'm thinking about more than the time to get to the site and a return to the station. Where i live I'm used to a fire trucks engine running the entire time they are at the scene of the fire. Maybe it's different in LA, I don't know is why I asked.

I am sure not up on how fire trucks are equipped, but I thought they had separate generators on board to run the pumps and hoses and so did not need to use the engine.  But I am not an authority by any means!
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on August 16, 2022, 06:40:58 PM
OK. I FINALLY did a road trip in my Tesla. I went from Orlando, FL to Annandale, VA and back. I found out that it is expensive to charge along the way based on the time of day and location. My price per kWh varied from 33 to 48 cents. Keep in mind that home charging is less than 15 cents. A gas vehicle that gets 35 MPG would pay about the same based on the current average of $3.50 per gallon. I could go into the fact that I didn’t put anything in the air but that usually get ignored. Yes; the coal that was used to produce my electricity put stuff in the air but so did the refinery that that processed your crude oil to make gas and then you put stuff in the air as you burn gas.

The car told me when to go to a charging station and gave me directions.
I would have no problems going anywhere after my experience this trip. Auto-pilot made the whole trip soooooo easy.
Just give a little tug on the wheel every 15 seconds so and the car does the work.
If you are considering a fully electric car, I would suggest waiting a year because the market is changing so fast right now and demand is high making higher prices.
I own a Tesla but I feel they are overpriced (again, supply and demand). From the time I ordered mine and locked in a price, they went up $8000.
So here is the chart.

Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: BigDave83 on August 16, 2022, 09:57:39 PM
Interesting numbers. My old caravan on a trip does 20-21 MPG so at our current price 3.70 I think for E15 I would have around $335 for fuel, probably 6 stops at 10 minutes each.

 As for the debate on emissions, that would depend on how far you want to go up the chain. You are correct in you comparison. The cost to mine and produce the materials for the batteries, the amount of plastics in a car today may be a wash, not sure what the Tesla bodies are made of. Many comparison could be made I believe.

 I watched a video of a Ford Lightning and a Chevy Gas towing identical trailers. The Ford didn't fare so well, I watched a few different videos none of them made me say I need one of these.

 A former customer has a son that apparently works for Google and they gave him a big raise. He bought a Tesla it was $125K or more. He told me he wouldn't buy one but said they do take off when you press the pedal, he was impressed.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Kristin Meredith on August 17, 2022, 10:44:24 AM
Good info, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on August 17, 2022, 03:23:42 PM
Interesting numbers. My old caravan on a trip does 20-21 MPG so at our current price 3.70 I think for E15 I would have around $335 for fuel, probably 6 stops at 10 minutes each.

 As for the debate on emissions, that would depend on how far you want to go up the chain. You are correct in you comparison. The cost to mine and produce the materials for the batteries, the amount of plastics in a car today may be a wash, not sure what the Tesla bodies are made of. Many comparison could be made I believe.

 I watched a video of a Ford Lightning and a Chevy Gas towing identical trailers. The Ford didn't fare so well, I watched a few different videos none of them made me say I need one of these.

 A former customer has a son that apparently works for Google and they gave him a big raise. He bought a Tesla it was $125K or more. He told me he wouldn't buy one but said they do take off when you press the pedal, he was impressed.

Hey Dave. First off thanks for keeping this civil. We could both go on and on over total emissions. I did not buy this car to be a tree huger (not that there is anything wrong with that). I bought it to keep my daily cost of transportation low.

EV trucks have a long way to go as far as towing. Nothing beats a good turbo diesel for towing. Right now the EV truck market is best used with everyday work trucks with minimal towing.

It sounds like the customer's son bought a model S Plaid. The fastest production car there is right now. It will do 0 to 60 in less than 3 seconds. Mine is a model Y and time is just under 5 seconds. Plenty fast enough for me.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bentley on August 17, 2022, 09:51:55 PM
So the charging stations are just like gas stations, you pay for the electricity?  Not sure why I thought it was like using the internet at McDonalds!
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: elenis on August 18, 2022, 01:38:18 PM
So the charging stations are just like gas stations, you pay for the electricity?  Not sure why I thought it was like using the internet at McDonalds!

I know some of the early Tesla adopters were able to wrangle some kind of deal that they could charge for free at the Tesla chargers, but other then that it is mostly like going to a gas station. Some buildings and employers and the like might offer free charging, but most places your using one of 4-5 different charge vendors to do it. Locally the power co-op I am a member of offers free level 2 charging for the first 2 hours at a couple chargers they have in their parking lot that I used so I could see how level 2 charging worked, but with my vehicle being a PHEV I mostly just try to use my gas and battery as efficiently as I can and fill up when I need to. I will get a full electric for my next vehicle and need to get a 50amp charger in my garage for that, but we have my wife's Telluride for the other for pulling a trailer and moving larger groups and the like.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on August 18, 2022, 05:53:48 PM
I am considering a Tesla Model 3.  Makes no sense to a buy a uses as 3 year old ones with 10,000 or less miles are about the same price as new.
Would really like a Polestar as it is the best looking EV sedan.
Unfortunately the have no service in Albuquerque.
Would not be happy if I had to have it towed to Denver if something happened to it.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on August 19, 2022, 08:45:07 AM
So the charging stations are just like gas stations, you pay for the electricity?  Not sure why I thought it was like using the internet at McDonalds!

Yes. Pay as you go. Once you set up your Tesla account linked to a credit card, the charger recognizes your car when you plug it in and charges your card accordingly.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: 02ebz06 on August 20, 2022, 04:38:02 PM
How do they charge, by the KW of charge, or time it takes ?
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: elenis on August 20, 2022, 10:08:32 PM
How do they charge, by the KW of charge, or time it takes ?

It is by the amount of electricity and not time. The Fisker Ocean is the one I am interested as long as it doesn't end up being junk when people start buying them.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: BigDave83 on August 21, 2022, 08:36:30 AM
How do they charge, by the KW of charge, or time it takes ?

It is by the amount of electricity and not time. The Fisker Ocean is the one I am interested as long as it doesn't end up being junk when people start buying them.

Is this an SUV looking vehicle. I remember see the Fisker ad pop up at times when using some apps on my phone.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bentley on August 21, 2022, 11:23:14 AM
So can you give any input on driving time/distance between charges?  I am assuming ambient would have been between 70 & 90 degrees for most of trip?  Love that Real World data!
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bob The Smoker on August 21, 2022, 03:36:58 PM
So can you give any input on driving time/distance between charges?  I am assuming ambient would have been between 70 & 90 degrees for most of trip?  Love that Real World data!

Well My trip was based on when one of us had to pee and stretch our legs legs. As you can see, we did not have a minimal percentage when we recharged and I did not choose to charge much above 80%. As the battery charge rate increases, the charge rate decreases. The amount of time to charge from 50% to 80% is about the same to charge 80% to 90%. Not worth the wait. Gotta pee again anyway in the next 2 hours. I'm sure if younger folks with bigger bladders wanted to drain down to 10 to 15% and spend the extra time to charge to 90%, they could save some stops.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: elenis on August 23, 2022, 01:28:32 PM
How do they charge, by the KW of charge, or time it takes ?

It is by the amount of electricity and not time. The Fisker Ocean is the one I am interested as long as it doesn't end up being junk when people start buying them.

Is this an SUV looking vehicle. I remember see the Fisker ad pop up at times when using some apps on my phone.

It is SUV looking. It will be their first one out that is more reasonably priced. They also have one called the Pear that is more of a sedan that is supposedly coming in 2024 that is supposed to start under 30k.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: BigDave83 on August 25, 2022, 07:12:39 AM
I'm sure many have seen this already. I copied this from The Hill website.

California is expected on Thursday to approve a ban on the sale of new gas-powered cars that would begin in 2035.

The state’s Air Resources Board on Thursday will vote on the ban, which would also ratchet up the percentage of vehicles sold in the state that are electric leading up to the 2035 date.

California’s clean car standards are also often adopted by other states, so the impact of this rule could stretch far beyond its borders.

Gas powered cars are a major source of climate-warming emissions and other air pollutants, and the measure has been touted as an attempt to both tackle climate change and improve public health.

In 2020, California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) issued an executive order seeking to phase out the sale of gasoline-powered cars by 2035, but Thursday’s action will actually put that goal in motion.

The California plan is more ambitious than federal goals. President Biden said last year that he hoped that half of new vehicle sales would be electric by 2030. That year, California’s regulations would mandate 68 percent of vehicle sales in the state are electric.

Automakers in recent months have moved toward increasing electric vehicle sales, with several making pledges to increase the proportion of vehicles they sell that are electric.

Nevertheless, this week, some in the industry criticized California’s forthcoming regulation as difficult for companies to comply with.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on August 25, 2022, 08:05:54 AM
I don't see how you get people living paycheck to paycheck or in worse financial condition to obtain an electric car especially if their neighborhood doesn't have the infrastructure to support it.  I believe there is more to this story that needs to be accomplished before those goals of going mostly electric can be executed in real life.  But, I guess you have to start with a goal and work your way to it even if the goal line may need to be extended at some point in the future if this is one of the most important goals of the country and the world.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bentley on August 25, 2022, 10:47:59 AM
Any Landscaping or garden equipment used in California after 2023 must be electric or I guess non gas powdered if you have a small nuclear powered string trimmer!  If it was just me at home...I would say come n get me!

Edit: I was wrong, no gas powered equipment will be sold after the end of 2023!  I am told you will be able to use your gas powered equipment as long as you can keep it running.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: ylr on August 25, 2022, 11:10:50 AM
Cali's grid can't keep up with demand now! How are they going to keep up when most of the cars are electric?
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: MysticRhythms on August 25, 2022, 10:03:03 PM
Cali's grid can't keep up with demand now! How are they going to keep up when most of the cars are electric?

They will supplement with gas powered generators. :lick:
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: BigDave83 on August 26, 2022, 07:29:22 AM
 I wonder if they have it written that you can not go to another state and buy a car or gas powered lawn equipment? Or if you could buy and have them shipped in?
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: urnmor on August 26, 2022, 03:33:06 PM
If California is so committed to ridding the state of fossil fuel why don't they band private jets.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: MysticRhythms on August 26, 2022, 04:47:06 PM
I wonder if they have it written that you can not go to another state and buy a car or gas powered lawn equipment? Or if you could buy and have them shipped in?

I'm not sure about other states but in Washington you won't be able to register a new non EV.
I assume the other states are similar, Washington typically just copies what CA does anyway.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: yorkdude on August 26, 2022, 06:11:56 PM
I wonder if they have it written that you can not go to another state and buy a car or gas powered lawn equipment? Or if you could buy and have them shipped in?

I'm not sure about other states but in Washington you won't be able to register a new non EV.
I assume the other states are similar, Washington typically just copies what CA does anyway.
A great reason to avoid both states.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: BigDave83 on August 26, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
Sadly PA seems like the CA of the east. They seem to want to do a lot of the same stuff.
Title: Re: Tesla the Car not the inventor...
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on August 26, 2022, 08:46:17 PM
Sadly PA seems like the CA of the east. They seem to want to do a lot of the same stuff.

Nah, weather is much nicer there.