Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: Bentley on October 12, 2022, 09:29:49 PM
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Had never had Sopprasota until I saw some at RD a couple of years ago and bought it, that is it on the left. Can't tell from photo and I simply don't remember name brand. Boy Howdy was it good! I think it was about $7.99/lb. A little steep for me, but after eating it, well worth it. I just like to eat slices of it, forget the sandwich. I have not really looked for it in local market or Wal-mart, maybe they have it. I was in a Wegmans the other day, a higher end supermarket, but not outrageous, just lots of departments, cheese, deli, bread, etc. They had some, $19.99/lb. I had to pass. Right!
So The Cheap Screws mind says I have to find a way to beat this. I have stayed away from Charcutier because I was under the impression you need curing and dying chambers. According to UMAi Dry (the Dry Aging Bag folks) you do not. I guess we will see. So I got the meat, I bought a kit from UMAi with the bags, the Bactoferm T-SPX starter culture, some #2 Cure and some dextrose powder. Followed instructions to the T! 72 hours of Fermentation, then about 2-3 months of drying in the fridge at about 38°. That is the step I am most concerned about as I have been told they should cure at about 55° and 75% RH. The 5 chubs are each about 32oz. They will lose 30-40%, so we will see. Should be ready about Christmas.
If it works and I lose 40%, I would still have 6lbs. of Sopprasota. At Wegmans pricing that is $119.94, not bad for a $66 investment that will make much more IF it works!
I hate waiting 2 months to see if I failed!
(https://i.imgur.com/iWbE1Omh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3GkfAeWh.jpg)
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This was my 1st attempt at Salami about 13 years ago in Pasadena! It did not end well!
(https://i.imgur.com/YkrDMOyh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8GEu0Yyh.jpg)
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I have wanted to try this or something like it, I have dry cured beef and different cuts of pork. Using Umai bags. The closest I have come to what you are doing is I will make up some snack sticks, beef and or pork with Cure 1 cased in 19mm cases and then just hung in the garage fridge for maybe 10 days or until I get them as dry as i want.
Can't wait to see your results.
Will you press them? I thought they were usually pressed, but maybe I have them mixed up with something else.
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In which city did you visit a Wegmans?
You may be able to find soppressata at Weis, Safeway, and Walmart for the Deitz & Watson brand. It is a fattier salami to me. Maybe a cross between salami and pepperoni. Some places around here and/or in Philly put it in their Italian hoagies.
Sam's Club has this sometimes too - https://www.samsclub.com/p/charcuterie-sampler-prosc-sprsta-coppa/prod22014431
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They usually are. I think that is the meaning of the word in Italian. Just cant figure out a way to do it with the space I have.
Will you press them? I thought they were usually pressed, but maybe I have them mixed up with something else.
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They call it the Lake Manassas store. It is in Gainesville, VA. About 30 minutes from us and from D.C.
In which city did you visit a Wegmans?
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I'm interested to see how it comes out as well.
I have the curing and drying chambers. Have only made pepperoni so far. Only a few weeks for that.
Haven't done anything with it in a few months with all the hassle of the move.
Eventually I will get back to it and try other than pepperoni.
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I have learned as the Salami ferments, it should start to take on that red color, for lack of correct terminology. I believe that is happening. So you take the small victories as they come.
Then.
(https://i.imgur.com/3GkfAeWh.jpg)
Now.
(https://i.imgur.com/4HCdAy8h.jpg)
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I guess if changing color means it is going smoothly I am Golden! It is even starting to smell like Salami!
Start.
(https://i.imgur.com/3GkfAeWh.jpg)
24 Hours.
(https://i.imgur.com/4HCdAy8h.jpg)
36 Hours.
(https://i.imgur.com/1EWShfUh.jpg)
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Very nice.
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Looking forward to seeing the end product.
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You start to realize that you need equipment you do not have. Like a Ph meter, and an aw (water activity) meter. But you are told if you do X & Y you will get Z and you hope that is accurate info. These were fermented for 60 hours. They will now go in the 38° fridge and we just keep checking weight loss for "doneness". The temp and RH gauge is off a tad due to the fridge being open 3 times getting the Salami in there. It was reading 37.8° and 75% RH the 1st time I opened it.
Since they are 70mm casings and UMAi was using 50 for their video, I am gonna assume that my drying time will be about 25% longer then theirs. I am figuring 1st of the year, although with my internet research, it appears that the UMAi bags seem to dry faster then a collagen or similar casing using a curing chamber. I will have no date for the chamber curing, but maybe i can compare notes with O2 about his chamber curing!
(https://i.imgur.com/ajPVCloh.jpg)
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This post is purely for my records. Weigh in 2 weeks.
Starting weights.
#1 33.2oz
#2 32.5oz
#3 33.8oz
#4 36.2oz
#5 34.8oz
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This is the process I used when I made pepperoni.
Only done it twice, so no expert here.
Different sausages will be different.
After stuffing into casings, save leftover for testing PH
Test the PH and write it down
Place in Curing chamber at 85F with 85% humidity
Check every 12 hours - Want PH to get down to 4.6 to 4.8 - Lower is tangier
Once target PH is reached, weigh the pepperoni and label each with start & target weights (20% loss will be the target)
Put in drying chamber (55F and 75% humidity)
Check daily until a 20% weight loss has been reached
Smoke at lowest temp and work up to 180F until IT reached 145F
Chill in ice water immediately to stop the cooking
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I don't have Ph or water moisture meter. The Ph I am just going by the time of fermentation. My research for soppressata calls for 5.0-5.2. They said that might happen at about 48 hours, but I went another 12 hours, so it might be even lower. 38-40% weight loss for soppressata. At this point, no way of knowing where my Ph was when it started to dry. At least I can control moisture loss. If this turns out well, I might look into both of those instruments, and start doing more research on starter cultures for different flavors. The RH% is staying in the 55-60% range. Not ideal, but nothing I can do without buying equipment.
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I just have the PH meter.
Small Humidifiers that hold about a quart of water are pretty cheap.
I have a nice small one that doesn't take up much real estate inside the chamber.
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So after 1 week they have lost appx 7% weight. I am encouraged they might be done after 6 weeks, but I have no idea if weight loss stays constant in dry curing process.
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#1 is down to 29.2 or just under 13% after 9 days. Some pictures tomorrow.
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After 10 days 30.3oz., loss of 4.5oz. or 13%. Starting to get frim like you would expect a hard salami to get. On the left, you can see the bag pulling away from the drying.
#5 34.8oz
(https://i.imgur.com/eaSq563h.jpg)
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That is coming along nicely.
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Lookin' good.
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16 days.
27.8=5.4oz or 16.4%
26.9=5.6oz or 17.6%
27.7=6.1oz or 18.3%
29.3=6.9oz or 19.1%
28.6=6.2oz or 17.8%
Starting weights.
#1 33.2oz
#2 32.5oz
#3 33.8oz
#4 36.2oz
#5 34.8oz
(https://i.imgur.com/fTlGKPOh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ajPVCloh.jpg)
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A little more data for the future.
21 days.
26.1-7.1 22.3%
25.3-7.2 22.5%
26.2-7.6 22.8%
28.0-8.2 23.0%
26.9-7.9 22.8%
16 days.
27.8=5.4oz or 16.4%
26.9=5.6oz or 17.6%
27.7=6.1oz or 18.3%
29.3=6.9oz or 19.1%
28.6=6.2oz or 17.8%
(https://i.imgur.com/Bv1sdAMh.jpg)
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I will be curious to see if the moisture loss stays constant. If so, these will be done in about 6 weeks.
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Just in time for Christmas meat and cheese board
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I see the humidity is at 84%. Did you get a humidifier ?
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That reading was way off. I took that picture after opening and closing the fridge many times right when they were 1st put in. Also why the temperature is high. For the 99% of the time, the RH has been between 45-60% and the temp at about 38°.
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Just in time for Christmas meat and cheese board
Exactly what came to my mind.
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1st of the year was my original thought, but I am now thinking 6 weeks for Oct 15th. That would be about Dec 1. It will all depend if the wa, moisture loss stays consistent! Leaving it alone is the hard part!
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28 days. Target is a loss of 40%.
#1 24.9 25%
#2 24.1 26%
#3 24.9 26.5%
#4 26.8 26%
#5 25.5 26.5%
10/15/2022
Starting weights.
#1 33.2oz
#2 32.5oz
#3 33.8oz
#4 36.2oz
#5 34.8oz
16 days.
27.8=5.4oz or 16.4%
26.9=5.6oz or 17.6%
27.7=6.1oz or 18.3%
29.3=6.9oz or 19.1%
28.6=6.2oz or 17.8%
(https://i.imgur.com/fTlGKPOh.jpg)
11/11/2022
(https://i.imgur.com/5k6jK12h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/00RomAWh.jpg)
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Decided I would go all in on the salami making. I saw a 2016 GE model on Craigslist. Going to pick it up tomorrow. For $145 I am will to roll the dice. I am ordering the Temperature and Humidity Controller and the Humidifier also. Going to wait on the circulation fan and dehumidifier as some of the research says they may not be needed. Throw in a couple of extension cords and I should have a large Dedicated drying chamber for about $350.
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Seems like a pretty good deal for $145.
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Thats awesome Bentley
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I look through FB market now and then for a frost free upright freezer for a build. I have not found one for under 300 bucks. I am cheap and don't want to spend that much on one.
Can't wait to see your build.
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It is no where close to the picture above, but if it lasts, that is all I care about. I did not think I would get old at 63, but I cant get it in the house Yet, by myself. I am going out now for round 2! Did not think 3 steps could beat me. I think if I had one of those thing you can strap to your back to lift stuff it would be a snap! No upper body strength anymore!
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Manned up and got it in with a small assist from Kristin. Needs to be wiped down on outside. Inside is pretty clean. Started right up, so that is always good. Not gonna woory about cleaning inside till I get the controllers and humidifier. Saw where a Chef/Teacher at Shasta College did a conversion. He drilled a hole through side to run power, I like the idea, but am trying to figure out if there might be any coils on the left side. Parts are to be here Weds. On ward and upward.
(https://i.imgur.com/gYtVF66h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CuS7Bxqh.jpg)
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Looking forward to your experiment and you passing along your knowledge.
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Take your make and model and look online for a manual that came with it or maybe even a service manual with an exploded view.
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Looks like yours has a ledge (or shelf if you want) behind the drawers.
My wine cooler had it. I'm guessing it is there to give room in the back for for compressor, fan, etc.
That is where I drilled my hole for the power lines.
Had to watch all the compressor lines and such were though.
Wasn't easy as there is metal behind the plastic.
Fortunately I have a few Greenlee punches and had one big enough for plugs to go through.
Was still tough making the hole.
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When you have just a touch of OCD you get into things before you are supposed to. This is about 29% loss. There is way to much fat even for me. We learn. When it finally hits 40% moisture loss I will buy some of the Sopprasota from Restaurant Depot and compare. I would say mine is lacking in flavor, more pepper, more salt. As far as the tanginess folks were telling me it might have due to the high concentration of dextrose, I am not seeing it, or I do not know what tangy salami tastes like. Lets just say I am encouraged. The little pieces seemed more done obviously, the larger ones, they are not. But I still ate them. So if this is my last post, it has been a gas!
(https://i.imgur.com/XocYQv2h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qhvpoiDh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/i8g4Aq8h.jpg)
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I would eat it. If to much fat brown it in a skillet or on your griddle and make meat chips.
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That looks excellent.
I would definetly eat some.
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Decided to run it through the side till I make sure everything is worked out and I have all cords needed before I go making holes and sealing them. I am now understanding why the one guy said you probably will not be able to have the curing fridge outside or in a garage if you are in a cold weather winter climate. You will never get the inside to 75°f if your house is 63°f. Which I have mitigated with a heating blanket. I will probably not be using it for a fermentation chamber. That is usually 75° & 90% RH for 24-72 hours. I am going to make a batch of Slim Jim's and some Calabrese Salami next and will ferment them at same time and then go into curing mode. Which will be about 55-60° & 75% RH.
Temperature reading on top, RH% on bottom of controller.
(https://i.imgur.com/CIUiHoEh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hohOZUgh.jpg)
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I taped my controllers to the side too.
Didn't last long.
Think I will use some small screws when I put it all back together.
Hopefully in a week or two, now that we are close to the "unpacking and remodeling" nightmare.
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Already put a screw in the top. Cut off heating pad, is down to 76° now will be curious to see where it is in the morning. Wish I had bought the humidifier with the larger water holder!
(https://i.imgur.com/x7r9uc9h.jpg)
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Just as a point of clarification, Ph should be written pH. It stands for -log of the hydrogen ion concentration. Neutral would have a concentration of 10^-7 moles/liter where ^ means to the power of. That would translate to a pH of 7.
You can also use the concept for other concentration. pCl would be -log of the chloride concentration.
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Thank you for the clarification and knowledge...Most on the site know the concept of it is Bentley, and you are please when he spells air right!
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I think we are there. Will not be sharing this with anyone, as I believe it is just to much fat for most. I like it and will eat it, it makes a pretty good salami sandwich, and it goes well on pizza, but it is not a charcutier plate type salami. Will go to 20% fat next time. Will takes some other photos as I slice this and will show some when the others get to 40%!
This is 34% weight loss. I think 40% will be even better, and by the time I finish this, I think the other 3 chubs will be there. Gonna start some mostly beef Slim Jims, Spanish Fuet, and some Calabresa next week in the new curing chamber. I can whole heartedly endorse these UMAi bags and there process if others are looking to make home made salami for about 1/4 the price of deli & supermarket. What I will say, and I won't know if I am right till this second batch. The flavor, the depth of flavor might be a better statement. I think that is developed through the mold on the outside of the salami, and that cannot be achieved with the bags.
(https://i.imgur.com/ajPVCloh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZLSMtENh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JUJ2kPMh.jpg)
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I would eat that. It looks pretty good to me. I have never tried to make any but I may have to look in to it. I have been using the bags for my dry cured stuff. Did you use one of their kits? I will go back to the start and look.
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I'm with Dave, looks pretty good to me too.
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Probably too much fat for me especially big chunks of it. I am assuming that salami has significantly less fat content than this style.
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Almost finished. #2 is 21.0 oz. or a loss of 35.5% and #4 is 23.5 oz. or a loss of just over 35%. Some say they are finished at 35%, I am still going to see if I can get to 40%, as i have come to believe I like a very dry, hard salami!
(https://i.imgur.com/4IpZ80Bh.jpg)
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Started making them on the 12th of October, and drying and curing on the 15th. So roughly 68 days from start to finish.
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I believe I have the Drying/Curing chamber ready to go. Have not permanently attached everything, but have it where I think it should be. Just added a variable speed fan. So I think I am almost ready to start a new batch of different Salami. A Calabresa, and a Catalonian Fuet. I worry that starting before we go on vacation that if we have a power outage for any length of time it could be bad news, but will roll the dice.
(https://i.imgur.com/Nn0WCYdh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9zamPkAh.jpg)
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The fan looks something like I used.
Took an old computer fan and an bought a variable speed controller for it.
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Do you run it the entire time you are Drying/Curing? If so, at what speed?
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I ran mine at lowest speed for entire time in the curing chamber.
I'm not 100% sure it's necessary, but my thought was to circulate the humid air around the sausages.
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Here we go with the real deal in my mind. 60 hours at 75° & 90% RH. Then drop temp to 55° & RH to 75%. This calls for 30-35% weight loss. I like a harder salami, so unless it is different from 1st round, will probably shoot for 40% loss. Big Chubb's are 3 inch Fibrous casing and small is 34mm Hog Casing!
(https://i.imgur.com/r0saiY1h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/geAFlTJh.jpg)
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At the end of the 60 hour fermentation process, I will spray them with what is called Mold 600, which I am told is Penicillium nalgiovense...yeah, sure I did not have to look that up to spell it right. That will create the classic white mold you see on salami. Decreases chance of bad mold getting in and also prohibits case hardening!
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Your pics #47, not sure how I missed it but if you care to share, yes please. It truly looks great.
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I do not know why, but I am battling high RH right now. When I used the UMAi bags with the fridge at 38° stayed between 45-60% RH. Even with the temperature of the curing chamber at 55°, I cant keep the RH below about 80%. And it wants to climb to close to 90%. I have had the Humidifier off for over 24 hours and I still cant get it to come down. Fan, no fan...I cant figure it out for the life of me. I need it around 75% by the time we leave or I think I am gonna come back to a pile of slime!
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Not sure if this would work but charcoal is a “humidity eater” ? Just a thought.
It is extremely hygroscopic.
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A lot of people on the FB page I am on that buit chambers use something like this. I believe it hooks in to the humidity controller.
https://www.amazon.com/SEAVON-Dehumidifier-Dehumidifiers-Portable-Basements/dp/B08R55SD6Y/ref=sr_1_9?crid=QAW6BYAB2FAG&keywords=small%2Bdehumidifiers%2Bfor%2Bhome&qid=1671503810&sprefix=small%2Bdehumidifiers%2Bfor%2Bhome%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-9&th=1
They have one of these also.
https://www.amazon.com/Pure-Enrichment-MistAire-Ultrasonic-Humidifier/dp/B01NAAH6EL/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?crid=14CDF6NUZ27X3&keywords=small+humidifiers+for+home&qid=1671504005&sprefix=small+humidifiers+for+home%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-4-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzS1pOMVZEVE5NOVA4JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzM5ODIxTk9BN0tEV0FVSkRKJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAzMzgxNzMyQUtEMjVOVlYySUhMJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
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I am trying to avoid another device. I am trying rock salt right now, if that does not work will try baking soda, if that does not work will try the charcoal. And if all those fail, may have to by a cheap dehumidifier till I can figure out what is causing what I consider to be, and have no idea why, excessive Humidity!
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I am trying to avoid another device. I am trying rock salt right now, if that does not work will try baking soda, if that does not work will try the charcoal. And if all those fail, may have to by a cheap dehumidifier till I can figure out what is causing what I consider to be, and have no idea why, excessive Humidity!
OK, Yeah, I have a humidifier and dehumidifier in the chamber, both controlled by the InkBird.
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Started some Catalonian Fuet (Foo-et) about 4 days ago. It has been fermenting. You do not have to make Salami with any cures i.e. nitrates/nitrites, but I like to. I forgot the #2 in these. Pretty sure they will be a very light looking salami!
(https://i.imgur.com/HJCOxJsh.jpg)
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The Fuet just got sprayed with the Mold 600 and is in the Drying chamber. I was so pleased to see Mold growing on the Calabresa (very small white dots). Probably very hard for you all to see it. I was getting worried, so I was relieved to see it.
My small de-humidifier comes Tuesday. I do not think it is going to meet my needs, as I was reading (after the purchase of course) so questions on Amazon. One asked it it would work with a humidistat. The answer was no. I am not sure if my temp/humidity controller is considered a humidistat. May O2 can weigh in and tell me.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZYULPOAh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E7pbgmsh.jpg)
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I don't recall what kind of controller you have, but the InkBird I have has two sockets; one for the humidifier and one for the dehumidifier.
The sensor inside tells the controller which one to turn on/off to maintain the humidity.
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My controller also turns on and off fridge (or plugged in heating pad) and/or humidifier or dehumidifier, it is not a unit just for humidity. It is supposed to control one or the other, but not both at the same time. Maybe that is where it will fail. The question and answer section of Amazon made it sound like if the controller shuts off power to dehumidifier, once it powers back up, it will not come back on. It has no problem turning on humidifier and turning it off. It is to be here tomorrow, 3 days early, so I will get to see. Do you have any kind of special dehumidifier? Or is it simply an on/off switch?
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Nothing special about the humidifier I use (on the right).
It has an on and off switch, but I just left it in the on position and let the controller supply power or take it away.
The humidifier on the right I really like.
Very small and uses a soda bottle for the water.
Comes with two adapters. One fits the threads on a soda bottle perfectly.
Just screw the adapter on the bottle, tip it over and put in the humidifier.
The adapter has a valve in it so water doesn't come out until it is in the humidifier.
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Mine looks like it must operate much like yours so I have hope!
(https://i.imgur.com/057Mnp5h.jpg)
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Looks like the same thing with a different label.
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What a difference one day can make! Dehumidifier is working great!
(https://i.imgur.com/fr913tjh.jpg)
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Glad it's working.
You're shaming me into getting back at it.
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The "traditional" method seems to dry or loose moisture faster then the UMAi. After 10 days in the bags I had about 13%-15% loss. With this batch I have from 16%-21%. The big ones don't worry me as they are on the lower end and I like a very dry salami. But am going on a 17 day cruise in less then 2 weeks and I wonder it the small one will be petrified when I get back! Who knows, maybe it will be ready and I can take some!
(https://i.imgur.com/jQK1UQ2h.jpg)
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Looking good!
Where are you going ?
We've only been on two cruises.
One for out 50th anniversary (went all out) to the southern Caribbean, and one to Mexico.
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Round trip out of San Diego to Hawaii.
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Round trip out of San Diego to Hawaii.
pardon my ignorance on this topic. what is there to see between san diego and hawaii other than water?
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I am hoping the Darkest Sky I have seen since I was 20 and backpacking in the Sierra Nevada!
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Round trip out of San Diego to Hawaii.
pardon my ignorance on this topic. what is there to see between san diego and hawaii other than water?
The Casino. ;D
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Round trip out of San Diego to Hawaii.
Sounds like a nice trip. Hope you have a really good time.
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Well the natural casing Calabrese is at 41% after 17 days. Seems awful early compared to the UMAi bag salami, but I guess it is 1/3 the size diameter.
I am going to go cut some and try it. If I live I will post some photos in a bit.
(https://i.imgur.com/yyRyoQXh.jpg)
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Now I have never had, nor even heard of a Calabrese salami till about 4 months ago. So I do not know why I am a little disappoint in flavor. It is kind of like a Spicy pepperoni. At least it has that going for it for when I make pizza.
(https://i.imgur.com/8XbqU52h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6dh8asah.jpg)
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We have had it but its been a while so I dont remember the taste specifically however that looks awesome and I would definetly love the taste you describe. Great job.
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I think it is kind of a mix between salami and capicola.
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Don't think I've ever had it either.
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I bought this the other day and used some of it on a hoagie I just made.
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Well, I am not sure what either should taste like as I have never had them. I am surprised and disappointed that for as much chili as I put in it, it is not hotter or even hot. Research tells me the color is right. It does not have a lot of flavor to me. It also is not what I consider a salami texture. It will end up on pizza till it is gone.
The Fuet on the other hand has the exact texture I am looking for. It is a mild flavor, but I never understood why very little mold grew on it? Pleased for a 1st time go at what I call fermented dry aged salami.
My next effort will be Snack sticks with fermento, a shot at the Sopprasota again, this time not done in a 38° fridge. And I am going to try and make some All Beef Bologna. With out a Buffalo chopper, I doubt I am going to get it into the fine enough paste, but that wont stope me! Bologna & a Pimento loaf!
(https://i.imgur.com/CYArx1Yh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V2gr56hh.jpg)
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They look good. I'll be starting back at it in a couple weeks.
I've run into the same issue with Hot Chilies you had.
Seems when you just eat them, they are hot, but when you add them into something, they tend to mellow out.
I added some to some Black Bean/Corn Quesadillas (very good by the way) I made a week ago and could barely tell they were in there.
Guess tripling the amount might help.
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Looking at those it really looks legit, truly does.
Shame they don’t have the taste you are after though.
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they look great, did you eat them at room temp or chilled, I have found that make s big difference in flavors in many things.
for the emulsion for the bologna, maybe work it through a food processor a few times.
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The texture was more the concern then the taste. The food processor is about the only choice to duplicate the buffalo chopper. I will grind with my 3mm plate, which is pretty small, hopefully getting the meat and fat close. I have used a technique where you freeze water in a large sheet cake pan so that it is very thin and add it as you are emulsifying!