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[mowin]

Instacure #1, cure#1, Prague powder #1 . Same product. At When I first started curing bellies, it was known as instacure#1.  At some point it changed to Prague powder#1. Both had 6.25 sodium nitrite.  Both are dyed pink to avoid someone using it as regular salt. It's commonly called pink salt.  Not sure if us regular folks could buy 100% sodium nitrite???

[jstrand]

I Love to have Smart people on my site...I figured salt and sodium were synonymous so I learned something new!  Maybe remember to throw that Chloride in there next time Bent...

I guess I kind of thought salt and sodium were the same as well. Learned something new. Seems table salt is 40% sodium and 60% chloride and a tsp of table salt contains about 2300 mg of sodium.

[jstrand]

I hijacked this thread long before you were here...

I know this will sound like a smart xxx, but how much salt is the home cured guy using?  That will help me tell you...

Ha, I figured I would be asked how much salt is being used. Actually I haven't cured bacon, I want to try but I was just wondering because my dad cant have much salt, but he loves bacon. So I was just wondering if home cured was less salty than store bought.
But lets say I use mowins amounts for a 5 pound belly.
Cure#1 5.56g
coarse sea salt 40.05g
brown sugar 22.68g

I think the math is correct:

That recipe calls for 2% salt. Salt contains 40% sodium, so it would be .8% sodium by weight.

Regular Oscar Mayer bacon has 260mg sodium in a 14 gram serving, which would be 1.8% by weight.

Glad you spelled it out for me! So using that recipe it would be about half the sodium of store bought bacon. That's not so bad. One more reason to do my own bacon. 

[Ssteppe]

Well, I decided to cut back on the Prague #1 (and sugar). I have a 5-lb belly in the fridge now with the following dry cure rubbed in:
1/3 cup kosher salt
1/3 cup dark brown sugar
1 teaspoon (actually about 7.35 grams) Prague #1 (pink salt)
2 Tablespoons cracked black pepper

Rubbed it in well and placed in a 2-gallon Ziplock. Flipping it once a day. Will finish next weekend.

I'll admit I just don't understand the "calculators" - according to them, I'd only have a couple of tablespoons of kosher salt and maybe a tablespoon of sugar. There just wouldn't be enough cure to cover the 5-lb belly, and none of the major recipes call for that little salt and sugar. It's not all absorbed, anyway.

[LowSlowJoe]

Well, I decided to cut back on the Prague #1 (and sugar). I have a 5-lb belly in the fridge now with the following dry cure rubbed in:
1/3 cup kosher salt
1/3 cup dark brown sugar
1 teaspoon (actually about 7.35 grams) Prague #1 (pink salt)
2 Tablespoons cracked black pepper

Rubbed it in well and placed in a 2-gallon Ziplock. Flipping it once a day. Will finish next weekend.

I'll admit I just don't understand the "calculators" - according to them, I'd only have a couple of tablespoons of kosher salt and maybe a tablespoon of sugar. There just wouldn't be enough cure to cover the 5-lb belly, and none of the major recipes call for that little salt and sugar. It's not all absorbed, anyway.

  Depending on exactly what kind of kosher salt your using, with that formulation  you could be close to 3.6% salt , which for me personally is way to salty...  ( Morton's Kosher salt is said to weigh about 248 grams per cup ).   

   I've got almost no experience using brown sugar by volume, too tricky on weather it's packed or not...  My own experience with brown sugar, is that I couldn't actually taste the difference between bacon that was made with it, vs being made with white sugar.  So, I typically use white sugar all the time now, with the only exception being , occasionally I try some maple flavored sugar, but in all honestly, I'm not a huge fan of maple bacon either, and rarely if ever actually taste maple flavor in the bacon I've made myself.  ( FYI, I did my own blind taste testing with the brown sugar vs white... my daughter participated too and neither of us could tell the difference between bacon made with either )...  but white sugar weighs about 200 grams per cup, if your brown sugar is anywhere near that, your a bit higher on sugar than I typically do, but since your salt is so high, you will likely need something to counteract that salt level.

   Nitrite... well your right at about 200 parts per million  - which in my understanding is a bit high for bacon, according to the USDA's rules for bacon, but that's the rate that many people do use, and I don't think it will kill you. My understanding is that 120 PPM, is what the USDA allows to be added to bacon, which , which would be about 4.3 grams of Cure #1 for 5 pounds of pork belly.

    All in all, your formulation is better than about 75% of those you'll read about on the internet, which means your way better than most.

[bregent]

Well, I decided to cut back on the Prague #1 (and sugar). I have a 5-lb belly in the fridge now with the following dry cure rubbed in:
1/3 cup kosher salt
1/3 cup dark brown sugar
1 teaspoon (actually about 7.35 grams) Prague #1 (pink salt)
2 Tablespoons cracked black pepper

Rubbed it in well and placed in a 2-gallon Ziplock. Flipping it once a day. Will finish next weekend.

I'll admit I just don't understand the "calculators" - according to them, I'd only have a couple of tablespoons of kosher salt and maybe a tablespoon of sugar. There just wouldn't be enough cure to cover the 5-lb belly, and none of the major recipes call for that little salt and sugar. It's not all absorbed, anyway.

3+ tlbs of salt+sugar is plenty to cover a 5lb belly.  The sugar might not all get absorbed, the most of the salt will. By my calc, similar to LSJ, if you used Diamond Crystal you're at 3% salt. If Mortons, then you are right at 4%. Either way, much too much salt IMO. Before smoking, fry a test slice and taste. If too salty then do a soak to remove some excess salt.

You're right, many recipes call for much more salt and sugar AND cure then is needed. I've seen some that call for 5X the max allowable rate for cure! I use 120 ppm and usually cure for 10-11 days.

[Bentley]

I am not trying to say wet cure is better or right or safer, and you may find that it is to salty for you...But I am glad that someone else is kind of understanding what I am talking about when I speak about dry rub curing and the amounts getting the rub evenly on the piece of meat...Or even having enough to get it all over the meat.


But to me, bacon should have a strong salt taste or why bother...

I'll admit I just don't understand the "calculators" - according to them, I'd only have a couple of tablespoons of kosher salt and maybe a tablespoon of sugar. There just wouldn't be enough cure to cover the 5-lb belly, and none of the major recipes call for that little salt and sugar. It's not all absorbed, anyway.

[hughver]

My understanding is that 120 PPM, is what the USDA allows to be added to bacon

Quote from USDA: The USDA is responsible for monitoring the proper use of nitrite by meat processors. While sodium nitrite cannot exceed 200 ppm going into dry-cured bacon, sodium nitrite cannot exceed 120 ppm for both pumped and immersion-cured bacon.

[Michael_NW]

I am learning so much from this discussion. Trying to find information on curing proportions and methods is like trying to find information on child rearing: the answers are all over the board. They range from the cavalier to the overly complex. I'm emerging from my research somewhat confused and wondering if I would even know the correct info if I saw it. As LowSlowJoe posted in another thread, it seems everyone, including well-known cooks and writers, are putting all kinds of information out there, much of it conflicting, and the proportions in the recipes are not consistent. That makes it hard for me to develop a logical way of approaching curing.

But as I look I'm beginning to see lines of sense that are repeated here and there and especially here. Thank you, guys, for posting your methods, trials, and errors. I've found a dry cure calculator thanks to you on which I can rely. This really helps a newbie like me.

[LowSlowJoe]

My understanding is that 120 PPM, is what the USDA allows to be added to bacon

Quote from USDA: The USDA is responsible for monitoring the proper use of nitrite by meat processors. While sodium nitrite cannot exceed 200 ppm going into dry-cured bacon, sodium nitrite cannot exceed 120 ppm for both pumped and immersion-cured bacon.

And what exactly is dry-cured bacon?       I submit to you that it's not simply bacon that's been cured using dry ingredients and placed in plastic bags, or wrapped in cellophane for 5 or 10 days...  as near as I know, dry-cure is a process, where in the process you reduces the moisture content significantly.      What most of us our doing, is not really dry-cure, but rather wet curing using dry ingredients. Why do I say this? because USDA documents go on to say that dry-cure bacon can have a shelf life without refrigeration of like 10 days for sliced bacon, and 3 weeks for slabs.   I don't know about you, but I would not leave any of the sliced bacon I typically make , sit out on the counter for 10 days.   Heck ,  I wouldn't even let my slab of bacon sit out on the counter for more then a few hours...

   Well, I did experiment with trying to do a 'dry-cured' bacon, where I actually let it sit in the fridge without being all wrapped up, trying to make it dry out more, etc... and then I cold smoked it a couple different times ( smoked at temperatures bellow 60F ).   I lived to tell the story, but in all honestly, I'm not sure I really liked the bacon as much as other bacon I've made...

  Bottom line is, IMHO - dry-cured bacon is something that most of us never actually make... in fact many of us have probably never really seen or tasted dry-cured bacon.   Unfortunately, I've never seen a really good description of just what constitutes dry-cured bacon.

 

[bregent]

>And what exactly is dry-cured bacon?       I submit to you that it's not simply bacon that's been cured using
>dry ingredients and placed in plastic bags, or wrapped in cellophane for 5 or 10 days...  as near as I know,
>dry-cure is a process, where in the process you reduces the moisture content significantly.

Exactly. There was a very lengthy discussion/argument about this a few years ago on the SMF board.  That's why I usually refer to the bag cure method as dry-brining, as opposed to dry curing which is a completely different process.

Bentley, nothing wrong with the wet brine method. I think the main reason many folks prefer dry brining is space. Without a dedicated fridge for curing, it's hard to fit a tub or bucket in a standard kitchen fridge without incurring the wrath of others in your household. It's pretty easy to fit two bagged 5lbs slabs on half of a fridge shelf.

[hughver]

I noticed on the USDA site they mentioned that almost all commercially produced bacon is pumped. Has anyone just injected to cure and if so, any special procedure? 

[Bentley]

I do it along with my Wet Curing,  Since the belly is already in the tub of cure it is so easy. But I have never understood how they get it to cure so fast in a commercial operation

Its at the 2 minute make of the video...I realize that is a lot of needles, and I am sure they are under pressure...but that is it!  That is all the cure that is put in it!  I have never figured out how that cures in the time it takes to smoke it, freeze it and slice it!

As a worker, I wonder if you are allowed to ask for the bits around the slicer?

How its Made

I noticed on the USDA site they mentioned that almost all commercially produced bacon is pumped. Has anyone just injected to cure and if so, any special procedure? 

[hughver]

I have a Chop's injection system but it would be hard to duplicate this (I read the rules and did not see a mention of YouTube. Please delete if not allowed). It would be interesting to know what the injection fluid is composed of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRc_y-E6je0

[LowSlowJoe]

My understanding of why injection is used...    Two main reasons...

 First in commercial production of today's bacon, it just allows them to cure faster by injecting cure in all over across the belly, etc...   With they way most of us do it, the reason we wait 5 to 10 days is because it takes that long for the cure to penetrate the meat fully.  ( rule of thumb is 1 day per half inch thickness ).   

  Second... similar to the first, it's in some ways about how long it takes for cure to penetrate the meat... if you have a really thick cut of meat, you can inject into the middle so that some of the cure gets into the thickest part of the meat.   

   For me, when curing pork loin, or pork belly, I can wait the 5 to 10 days.  I don't believe the rule of thumb of 1 day per half inch really directly applies to pork loin, in my experience , cure seems to penetrate lean muscle much faster than it does meat that has layers of fat mixed in...   I've observed that most pork loins which are easily 4  inches thick, have cure penetrate to the center in well under 8 days, 5 days is about all that seems needed really.

    --- back to dy-cure ---     In my quest to figure out if there is anything that defines it, I ran across one or two websites ( google how to make dry-cure bacon and you'll find them ), one of which insists that you don't need Nitrite or Nitrate to be safe... that salt is enough.    This issue alone is one that's controversial to me...   But I error very much on the side of caution and I personally will very likely always add Nitrite to my bacon.  I find it somewhat irresponsible where sites more or less make bold statements that Nitrite is not needed... or give formulations that are clearly using a lot more Nitrite than is really needed.    Sometime this winter I'll probably make another attempt at making some dry-cure bacon, even if I never get a definitive explanation of what defines it and/or how to do it safely, but what I won't do , is tell you that it's safe, unless I learn a lot more about it and find some sources that are much more clear about the process , what does, or does not make it safe...    ----