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[Bobitis]

I challenge anyone to come up with a good reason why government investment in education is not one of the best investments our taxes could make. 

It seems to me that all anyone would have to do is look at the GI Bill after WWII.  All those men who could go to college and receive education and training -- it helped propel the US and the world to a better economic future.  Money can buy some good stuff!!

Forgive me Kristen, but yer equating those that served our country (and the world) to the self absorbed 'me first' generation? Perhaps I'm reading too much onto your comment.

Nothing in life is free. Everything comes with a cost. That 'cost' comes from the taxpayers. The only folks that pay taxes are those that work.

Our nation has an abysmal record when it comes to 'public' education. Our system is 100% supported by taxes, and the bureaucracy behind it is consuming it. Little gets filtered down to those in the trenches. This is the problem we face. Government control.

I can't speak for anyone else in any other district, but here in Washington, we have a huge problem with accountability of government spending on EVERY level.

You'd have to live here to understand.

Free shizzle does NOT = good return on investment, when no investment is required.

[Mikro]

My wife has taught for 47 years, all in public schools. The biggest problem she has encountered, is the constant teaching method changes. Many think that giving a child warm, fuzzy feelings is more important than educating with a solid knowledge of the subject matter. We no longer teach civics. Is it no wonder no one knows anything about how our Government works? We teach very little history that explains the past, therefore we make the same mistakes. English is fluid? Well looking at what I read now, most cannot spell or put together a correct sentence if they tried. Math is a joke, without a calculator most cannot perform the basics.
I can go on and on.

Bottom line teachers in most areas are underpaid for the BS they deal with. Most teach because they love what they do and they care. The reward for them is that one student, against all odds, comes back 10 years later and says "Thank you for making a difference in my life."


Just my humble opinion. have a Great Labor Day weekend.
mk

[dk117]

Thanks all.  I think we're doing a pretty good job of maintaining a civil discourse here.   For the most part I think I've said my piece on this subject, but I really like the food for thought comments letting the reader then make their own conclusion.  Sometimes the facts help, sometimes they are pretty slanted towards one way of thinking ... anyway here goes.

I have 5 years of tax records showing my teacher wife spends $100 a month on her classroom students.  $1200 a year.  Yes her contract says 180 days, but she works 12 months a year and spends $1200 a year average on her job.    Maybe my wife is an outlier.  Maybe not.

DK

[Kristin Meredith]

It is not just the supplies and salaries, it is the buildings also.  It is a critical problem here in Virginia, especially since many of the counties in the south and eastern parts of the state are pretty poor. Kids from one middle school in one of those counties are going to the "new" school -- built in 1928 with one electric outlet per classroom.  If that is the new school, I would hate to see what kids in the old schools are putting up with.

And bobitis, whether the GIs "earned" their education is not the point -- they were the students, not the teachers.  But when we provided money for them to go to school, the colleges were able to step up and provide good educations which propelled them forward.  It has nothing to do with entitlement, it has to do with the fact that money paid for educations which resulted in a better workforce.

And I don't agree that the nation has an abysmal record re public education.  I was a product of 12 years in public schools and 4 more years in a public college.  My classrooms were all in good shape and fairly new.  I do think one of the biggest differences was: (1) teachers were respected; and (2) parents supported teachers, they did not take them on and challenge everything they did and every grade their angel received.  Also, schools were allowed to discipline effectively (I don't mean corporal punishment) without a parent going ballistic and suing.

[ICIdaho]

Thanks all.  I think we're doing a pretty good job of maintaining a civil discourse here.   For the most part I think I've said my piece on this subject, but I really like the food for thought comments letting the reader then make their own conclusion.  Sometimes the facts help, sometimes they are pretty slanted towards one way of thinking ... anyway here goes.

I have 5 years of tax records showing my teacher wife spends $100 a month on her classroom students.  $1200 a year.  Yes her contract says 180 days, but she works 12 months a year and spends $1200 a year average on her job.    Maybe my wife is an outlier.  Maybe not.

DK

She must be a dedicated outlier, or works summer school, or coaches extracurricular activities, in which case she should be paid in addition to the normal contract.  The other option is you live in an upside down world that makes kids go to school year around, in which case I would move!

[triplebq]

I have 5 years of tax records showing my teacher wife spends $100 a month on her classroom students.  $1200 a year.  Yes her contract says 180 days, but she works 12 months a year and spends $1200 a year average on her job.    Maybe my wife is an outlier.  Maybe not.

DK

Sadly this seems to be more common. I know I take a ton of supplies to my kids teachers all the time.

[ICIdaho]

I have 5 years of tax records showing my teacher wife spends $100 a month on her classroom students.  $1200 a year.  Yes her contract says 180 days, but she works 12 months a year and spends $1200 a year average on her job.    Maybe my wife is an outlier.  Maybe not.

DK

Sadly this seems to be more common. I know I take a ton of supplies to my kids teachers all the time.

Ditto to that.  I ask my wife if we are supplying the entire school.  She use to sub at the school my kids go to.  She said that a lot of the parents are not able to give anything at all, so we make up for it I guess....

[Bentley]

I guess I am the exception to this rule.

One parent a graduate of Princeton, another the other University of Montana.  Both with time to and did give to said child...and yet here I am.  A high school and college graduate but no real education that has manifested itself in life and who has trouble spelling kat!

The desire to achieve has to be in the person in order to achieve!   It is kind of like my take on sobriety...if you are ready and willing to be sober there is nothing anyone can say or do to prevent you!  If you are not, there is nothing anyone can say or do that will help you get sober!

As far as throwing more money at the education system to increase the test scores.  This rarely is the case.  Too many variables exist for this theory to work.  The number one thing in improving test scores is the home life, not teacher salaries.  Stability, parents who are available, care, and have time to give to their children goes farther than any government funded program.

[ICIdaho]

I guess I am the exception to this rule.

One parent a graduate of Princeton, another the other University of Montana.  Both with time to and did give to said child...and yet here I am.  A high school and college graduate but no real education that has manifested itself in life and who has trouble spelling kat!

The desire to achieve has to be in the person in order to achieve!   It is kind of like my take on sobriety...if you are ready and willing to be sober there is nothing anyone can say or do to prevent you!  If you are not, there is nothing anyone can say or do that will help you get sober!

As far as throwing more money at the education system to increase the test scores.  This rarely is the case.  Too many variables exist for this theory to work.  The number one thing in improving test scores is the home life, not teacher salaries.  Stability, parents who are available, care, and have time to give to their children goes farther than any government funded program.

I was only talking test scores vs money spent, but I do think you helped my point.  Sounds like you graduated high school and college, probably because your parents did care and push.  Can you imagine where you would have been at age 18 if no one gave a xxxx what you did and you had no drive?  Nothing guarantees success, not even wanting it does.  That is life.  I agree though, I kicked a tobacco habit 10 years ago.  It only happened when I was ready.  I would "try" to quit when I really did not want to, and it never stuck until I had kids and had incentive to not want to anymore.

HAHA, apparently the non curse word slang for doodoo is a bad word on here.  It changed it to xxxx's!

[Bentley]

Probably in the military where I belonged at that age.  I never had an issue with authority, and did much better when someone was telling what to do then trying to figure it out on my own...If nothing else I could hold my head up on veteran's day instead of feeling I need to be apologetic about it!

I understand what you are saying.  To the best of my knowledge though, I have never seen a driven person who is a failure in life!

Can you imagine where you would have been at age 18 if no one gave a xxxx what you did and you had no drive?  Nothing guarantees success, not even wanting it does.  That is life. 

[dk117]

Agreement reached.  First day of school is today!

Jules in 9th grade.  Lauren sideways as always in 6th grade.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]  [ Invalid Attachment ]

[Mudflap]

 

[Trooper]

I will spare all of you from my attitudes about teaching/teachers/class size/Betsy DeVos etc. etc. etc.

But, I want to say that I love the pics of the meat DK117!

[Jon515]

My Mom has been a teacher for more than 40 years. (she is semi retired and substitute teaches) She has a masters degree and had a hard time getting a full time position because of what the teachers union required schools to pay her.  She would have worked for less because she loves teaching, but instead can only sub for people with less education or commitment.  I don't doubt OP's  wife does a great job like most teachers, but until the teachers union either backs down or does away with tenure they will not gain any traction.  The 80/20 rule applies in public education like it does in most situations.

As far as teachers striking, I think its terrible they are exploiting young peoples future. When I was in high school our teachers threatened to strike and push our graduation back.  IMHO that is not ok.....

[riverrat49]

The money was supposed to be ear-marked for salaries and School Districts see it as a cash cow to promote whatever pet project the school superintendent and or board decides. My oldest friends wife is a teacher, they are still on strike, 1st offer if you can call it that was a 1% pay-raise, some districts want to pay the oldest and youngest teachers more but also eliminate special pay for certain qualifications and changes in Medical costs that leave core Teachers in the middle of the pack worse off then before. My stance is "Pay the Teachers" and cut the administrators or their big salaries. As an example our Governor makes $172,000 (CEO to largest workforce in state) here is just a sample of Superintendent salaries:  Full Salary Sched here:

http://data.spokesman.com/salaries/schools/2016/job-titles/browse/?job_title=Superintendent

 Lawrence L Nyland   Seattle Public Schools   Superintendent                     $289,887   $8,400   $10,416   $308,703
Carla Jo Santorno   Tacoma School District Superintendent             $267,608   $0           $9,360   $276,968
John Dean Deeder   Evergreen School District (Clark)   Superintendent     $260,691   $0            $10,303   $270,994
Steven Truby Webb   Vancouver School District   Superintendent             $256,429   $13,987   $9,870   $280,286
Arthur O Jarvis   Renton School District Superintendent                             $252,000   $15,200   $9,360   $276,560
Amy Beth Cook   Lake Stevens School District Superintendent             $250,904   $6,031   $10,734   $267,669
Calvin Jerome Watts   Kent School District Superintendent                     $250,000   $10,200   $21,384   $281,584
Justin T Mills   Bellevue School District Superintendent                     $247,000   $23,600   $12,060   $282,660
Ronald Dion Thiele   Issaquah School District Superintendent             $246,465   $9,600   $10,563   $266,628
Elin Kristine Mcduffy   Arlington School District Superintendent             $243,394   $10,000   $11,163   $264,557
Nicholas John Brossoit   Edmonds School DistrictSuperintendent     $243,266   $22,200   $9,146   $274,612
Shelley K Redinger   Spokane School District Superintendent                 $239,999   $0           $21,902   $261,901
Tammy L. Campbell   Federal Way School District   Superintendent             $231,750   $19,992   $10,042   $261,784
Marci L Larsen   Mukilteo School District Superintendent                     $228,373   $60,320   $10,000   $298,693
Susan Ann Enfield   Highline School District Superintendent             $226,600   $19,421   $8,992   $255,013
Jean I Shumate   Stanwood-Camano School District Superintendent     $226,004   $0           $9,885   $235,889
Alan Spicciati   Auburn School District Superintendent                             $221,022   $0           $10,743   $231,765
Rebecca Lee Miner   Shoreline School District   Superintendent             $218,536   $24,586   $9,708   $252,830
Gregory W Baker   Bellingham School District   Superintendent             $217,950   $38,600   $10,870   $267,420
Traci Lee Pierce   Lake Washington School District   Superintendent             $216,300   $23,793   $23,127   $263,220
John P Welch   Educational Service District 121   Superintendent             $213,277   $12,000   $26,736   $252,013
Timothy G Merlino   Educational Service District 112   Superintendent     $212,000   $0           $9,360   $221,360
Fredrika A Smith   Monroe School District Superintendent                   $211,692   $2,200   $9,831   $223,723
Gary S Plano   Mercer Island School District Superintendent             $210,458   $1,500   $9,290   $221,248
Thomas Gary Seigel   Bethel School District   Superintendent                     $209,894   $14,720   $11,271   $235,885
Timothy Stewart Yeomans   Puyallup School District   Superintendent     $205,946   $40,774   $1,052   $247,772
G.Joel Aune   Snoqualmie Valley School District   Superintendent     $204,520   $41,927   $10,365   $256,812
Deborah L Lebeau   Clover Park School District   Superintendent             $201,000   $0           $2,211   $203,211
Richard A Mcbride   Educational Service District 171   Superintendent     $199,500   $18,000   $10,080   $227,580