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If allowed in your State, County, City...Would you go back to church, restaurants, bowling, hair salon...pick your activity.

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Author Topic: Are you ready?  (Read 6881 times)

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Kristin Meredith

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2020, 11:43:01 AM »

But there were no precautions settlers could take via smallpox, there were no vaccines or knowledge of diseases and how they work.

True.  But as I wrote, "Those settlers didn't plan to spread smallpox that they carried, but they did."  Since they spread the disease, I view them as being to blame for spreading it.  Who else would you blame?  Or don't you blame anyone?

So, I submit that space explorers will be at fault if they take a disease to another planet.

So I assume you are withdrawing the qualifier :"if we didn't take the necessary precautions" from your space answer? And I assume those native American women who gave Europeans veneral disease are also to blame for its spread.

And no, I don't blame anyone for the spread of disease. It is a disease, it does what it is suppose to do -- spread and harm.  We are humans, we do what we are supposed to do -- live.  I don't look for villians and victims in all aspects of life, especially naturally occuring ones. We have enough real manmade evil that we can confront and overcome as society to not voluntarily take on more blaming people for things that just arise as part of how society develops.

But it also raises interesting questions re "natural selection" and "survival of the fittest".  I will claim virtual ignorance on these theories, but isn't a disease spreading and killing just that?  So shouldn't scientists just say this is all part of how things evolve and develop -- it is biology (or whatever branch of science applies)?
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hughver

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #91 on: May 10, 2020, 12:04:13 PM »

I don't have a dog in this fight but, it's one thing to spread a disease when you don't know about it, it's another story if you know about it and still potentially  spread it by disregarding safety measures. We all know about this disease and IMHO, we all should do everything that we possibly can to help keep it under control.  :2cents:
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yorkdude

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #92 on: May 10, 2020, 12:10:03 PM »

I don't have a dog in this fight but, it's one thing to spread a disease when you don't know about it, it's another story if you know about it and still potentially  spread it by disregarding safety measures. We all know about this disease and IMHO, we all should do everything that we possibly can to help keep it under control.  :2cents:
I have to agree but at which point do we ascertain this is safe? If we could all get tested that might be one thing but it is potentially on the horizon, in the meantime we are wreaking havoc on so many people. Something has to give. Back to The Who’s on first.
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pmillen

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #93 on: May 10, 2020, 01:55:58 PM »

I don't look for villians and victims in all aspects of life, especially naturally occuring ones. We have enough real manmade evil that we can confront and overcome as society to not voluntarily take on more blaming people for things that just arise as part of how society develops.

We may not have the same definition of naturally occurring.  I believe that global warming has dramatically changed weather patterns.  By extension I believe that a group of people who caused global warming and those who ignored global warming warnings are to blame when a tornado levels a city in a part of the country that hasn't previously had tornadoes.  One person might say, "That's naturally occurring."  I say, "Not in my view, those people changed the weather.  It's no longer natural."

So, back to the heart of the discussion.  I think that a person that spreads a disease by not taking known effective precautions can be blamed for the spread.  You don't.  I'm okay with that.
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MysticRhythms

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #94 on: May 10, 2020, 04:27:38 PM »

I don't look for villians and victims in all aspects of life, especially naturally occuring ones. We have enough real manmade evil that we can confront and overcome as society to not voluntarily take on more blaming people for things that just arise as part of how society develops.

We may not have the same definition of naturally occurring.  I believe that global warming has dramatically changed weather patterns.  By extension I believe that a group of people who caused global warming and those who ignored global warming warnings are to blame when a tornado levels a city in a part of the country that hasn't previously had tornadoes.  One person might say, "That's naturally occurring."  I say, "Not in my view, those people changed the weather.  It's no longer natural."

So, back to the heart of the discussion.  I think that a person that spreads a disease by not taking known effective precautions can be blamed for the spread.
 You don't.  I'm okay with that.

But are the precautions we are being told to take known effective precautions?
In my opinion they are not, Not when 2/3 of all new cases in New York are from people that are staying home and following the alleged effective precautions.
Not when you take into account the fact that from the beginning the CDC stated that wearing a mask would not slow the spread among the general public and only changed their stance when pressured to do so.

My workplace has mandated that we wear masks, not because it is an effective precaution but because the vocal majority of our customers think it is.
When I go places away from work I do not wear a mask unless the place I go mandates it. And in the few places that I have gone a vast majority of people are not wearing masks.
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hughver

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2020, 05:27:51 PM »

If in fact the primary method that the virus gets spread is from air borne particles from the mouth/nose, then it's only common sense that we wear mask both to protect us from others and to protect others from us. As for the stay-at-home infections, it just demonstrates how volatile this virus is. The virus didn't just hatch in their homes, someone unknowingly brought it in.
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triplebq

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2020, 05:31:00 PM »



But are the precautions we are being told to take known effective precautions?
In my opinion they are not, Not when 2/3 of all new cases in New York are from people that are staying home and following the alleged effective precautions.
Not when you take into account the fact that from the beginning the CDC stated that wearing a mask would not slow the spread among the general public and only changed their stance when pressured to do so.

My workplace has mandated that we wear masks, not because it is an effective precaution but because the vocal majority of our customers think it is.
When I go places away from work I do not wear a mask unless the place I go mandates it. And in the few places that I have gone a vast majority of people are not wearing masks.

Of course it will not be effective if we don't comply. The reason 2/3 of new cases in NY are people who "suppose" to stay home is because they are not staying home. When people go out they are not wearing masks and/or staying 6 feet from people. You said it yourself you don't wear a mask unless it is mandated.

One thing about us Americans, we don't want to be told what to do no matter if it is good for us or not. I guess that is why we have the greatest number of case in the world. We have over 5x the number compared to the second worst which is Spain.   :'(
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Kristin Meredith

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2020, 05:50:00 PM »

Add the populations of the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy and you get about the same pop as the US.  Then compare number of cases confirmed and number of deaths.
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Kristin Meredith

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #98 on: May 10, 2020, 05:55:03 PM »

Well, the absolute safest method is to stay at home always -- don't go out, order by computer, have stuff delivered so I would think an awful lot of folks out there shopping in masks would just do that -- stay at home and you don't need to worry about waring a mask or worry about folks not wearing a mask.  Or at least I wish the mask wearers would stay 6 ft away.  But they seem to believe their masks make them invincible and they don't observe the 6 ft -- another reason I don't like masks.  It is a prop that promotes a false sense of safety.
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BigDave83

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #99 on: May 10, 2020, 08:31:18 PM »

Not sure when this was actually recorded, but it just goes to show those we are to believe and trust to lead us down this road, truly have no clue.

https://youtu.be/jxqH4pAeuaQ

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triplebq

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #100 on: May 10, 2020, 08:56:50 PM »

Add the populations of the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy and you get about the same pop as the US.  Then compare number of cases confirmed and number of deaths.

OK let's look at Countries who are larger. In the US we have 330 Million people. In India there are 1.3 Billion and in China there are 1.4 Billion. We have 21x the number of cases to India and 15x to China. If based on the numbers we should have way less than both China and India.

Now I don't believe we should be on total lockdown, BUT we all need to work together to control the virus. If that is wearing masks, washing hands, using sanitizers,  and/or staying 6 feet from others, we all can do this. That is if we want to. 
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Kristin Meredith

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #101 on: May 10, 2020, 09:14:37 PM »

Well, if you think that China is being honest about their cases, then you may also believe that they are being honest about human rights abuses.

With respect to India, have you ever traveled in the country?  I have.  The majority of people don't have running water or indoor plumbing.  Do you think they are actually able to seek medical care when they can't afford to feed their kids and live in areas where the nearest doctor is a hundred miles away? Or accurately test and count the sick? 

At least use countries which have the medical ability and political transparency to be truthful about results.

Again, if you want to be absolutely safe stay at home, there are plenty of mechanisms in place to allow one to do that in comfort.
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triplebq

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #102 on: May 10, 2020, 09:56:49 PM »

Really does it matter what country we compare our numbers against? The fact is we have this virus in the US and we have to deal with it. Clearly some people in the US don't believe anything they are being told and will never believe anything unless the views are like theirs. I'm not saying you are this way.

Clearly some people want to do what they want. If the recommendation is to wear masks and social distance, people aren't going to do this. Heck we have people arming themselves with military gear demanding the country open back up. Hey only in America
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Kristin Meredith

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #103 on: May 11, 2020, 08:18:06 AM »

Clearly some people in the US don't believe anything they are being told and will never believe anything unless the views are like theirs.

That is certainly true of a percentage and always has been true of a certain percentage.  But I think the majority are perhaps just becoming much more wary of what "experts" and politicians are saying because they seem to change course a lot and be wrong a lot.  And each side hates the other and uses any means, including public health, to strike at the other. And the media plays everything up to scare people because that results in a lot of clicks. So I just think people are being tired and wary of all of this.

The masks are one example.  For months, no need for these, these won't protect, don't hoard them, you don't need them. Now it is wear them, but they still won't protect you without social distancing, that is the real protector -- and by the way, we told you you didn't need them because we needed them for medical people and didn't want the public taking them. But now you can make or buy cloth ones, so yeah, we will now pretend we really care about your health.

And projections of illness and death are another example.  I saw a good article yesterday.  Gov Gavin Newsome, on March 18, told the federal gov't that within 8 weeks (i.e. May 13) they projected roughly 56% of Californians would be infected -- about 25.5 million people -- and they would have 255,000 deaths.  That was with a shut down and masks and social distancing, etc.  I am sure he had experts providing him with those numbers.  As of this morning, May 11, Calif has 66,680 cases and 2,745 deaths.  And this type of over estimation is happening every place. Folks aren't stupid and they begin to wonder whether their leaders and experts are just this out to lunch or are they trying to manipulate them.  Either scenario does not built confidence.  And I think sometimes leaders overstate to either give dramatic emphasis or to scare folks into compliance, but you face a backlash -- which is what I think is happening now.

And the media really stokes the fire.  Nearly all across the board, the majority of deaths (nearly 85%) are in the old and sick -- mainly over 70 with major health issues. Nursing homes are hotbeds and just devasted.  But we rarely hear that 75% of the cases in Virginia are in nursing homes. Instead they deliberately pick up and run with stories of younger people who have died -- and at least two of the stories involving teenagers have now been shown to not be true and they did not die of COVID-19.

We, as a nation, did not have a lot of trust in our political leaders -- of either party -- before this happened.  And yeah, it is easy to pile on the President and I would be the first one to agree that a lot of his policies are bad and dangerous -- but I started believing that in May 2019 when he dismantled the CDC pandemic unit and I did not hear an uproar from the other side of the aisle or a call for an investigation or other review.  And the House Intelligence Comm gets much of the same info about threats, like this virus, as the President does.  So where were they in Nov and Dec 2019?  Oh, I forgot, they were concentrated on holding an impeachment proceeding that everyone knew had no chance of being "won" instead of focusing on protecting the country.  And Nancy Pelosi was touring SF Chinatown restaurants on Feb 24 encouraging folks to come out and support those businesses.  She now tries to back peddle saying she was only doing it to combat the President's rascism towards the Chinese and that everyone knew the virus was dangerous and sprending at that time and she is critical of Trump for not taking action earlier.  Huh?  Just admit that you didn't think this was that big a deal either Nancy and you were still trying to strike back from the impeachment loss. To do what you are doing just makes people doubt you more.

So yeah, I don't trust any of them, including experts who may have their own agendas because they hate Trump and hate the cuts he made to important depts and they are humans with their own biases.  Sorry, being a doctor or in public health doesn't make you an angel. So I will continue to do my own research.  But I think they should all pay attention to the fact that they are all losing standing in the view of a lot of Americans.
   
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reubenray

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Re: Are you ready?
« Reply #104 on: May 11, 2020, 09:30:42 AM »

Alabama is opening up more and more.  Below is what opened today.  It is time.  Beaches, hotels, businesses were opened a week ago.

"Gov. Kay Ivey announced the loosening of restrictions last week. Businesses including restaurants, hair salons, bars, breweries and gymnasiums can reopen Monday with rules including crowd limits and cleaning requirements."
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