Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: bproffer on October 23, 2017, 06:24:53 PM
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestreptalks/2017/10/22/jeremy-andrus-found-success-with-skullcandy-now-he-hopes-to-do-it-again-with-traeger-grills/#680b565317ea
This is a pretty insightful little interview with Jeremy Andrus about why he decided to join and eventually buy Traeger.
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Well, he doesn't lack confidence, but I think he does lack some insight into the pellet pit market:
"There are smaller competitors, but we are 70%-plus of the wood pellet grill market. Our ambition is not to own the wood pellet market. We already own it. Our ambition is to dominate outdoor grilling globally."
and
"We’re going after not just the backyard barbecue but elevated culinary consumers. We launched in Williams-Sonoma in April, an online-only test with our Timberline grill, and it is absolutely killing it. It’s a $2,000 grill that’s an Internet of Things device. In an industry where people spend $300 for a grill that’s sold mostly to male consumers, we’re selling a very premium technological product and women are embracing it. Our cooking team was recently in New York cooking with Daniel Boulud. Chefs around the country are buying grills at retail and putting them in their restaurants for certain ingredients. At Bestia in Los Angeles they cook on a Traeger."
I think that the elevated consumer of pellet pits he refers to goes after much more high end and sophisticated pits than the Timberline. And Cookshack has been selling to high end restaurants for years, so I think he is behind the curve on his market research. Finally, my poll on "your first pellet grill" has also been interesting to me on the issue of Traeger's market share. 7-8 years ago when I did that poll on PH, Traeger was nearly 75% of first time buyers grills. Now they are at about 37%. And companies like Camp Chef and Pit Boss have a bigger distribution system and are going to come out with much more competitively priced pits.
It will be interesting to watch Traeger with new leadership. This topic is real interesting and I am going to move it to the General Discussion for more exposure. Thanks for posting it.
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Some interesting comments he makes...
Women are embracing it? How on earth could he make that assumption?
Chefs all over the country are buying them and he cites one in LA. Really?
He does have one thing going for him tho... Made in China. That should put his price point at a level to make great strides in off shore sales.
Where's all that fuel going to come from? I'd bet that half the planet is sorely lacking in useable hardwood forests.
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Great article, thanks for the post. I agree with the comments above. Innovation!? Traeger is playing catch up at this point. I purchased a Timberline 850 this summer to replace a 17 year old Traeger BBQ 100. I love it, but I do not consider it to be at the top tier of pellet grills.
A huge recipe data base designed for Traeger grills? Um, can adapt to any pellet grill. :rotf:
I hope they do well and continue to upgrade their products and not just focus on growth and market share.
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Marketing, marketing, marketing.
He's mainly going to try to bring in mainstream by marketing the xxxx out of it.
It's not the best, but he'll convince enough people it's the best.
A lot of people will buy stuff at 5 times the price of a competitive product only because they believe it's better despite there not being any real evidence that it is. Marketing, and people who echo what they've heard from the marketing, is all that really matters when it comes to selling a product.
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My daddy taught me at a young age when a man was talkin' through his hat, and that fella is. And that means lying his backside off to get something that he ain't got no confidence in. Sorry y'all. Just the cowboy coming out in me.
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Marketing, marketing, marketing.
He's mainly going to try to bring in mainstream by marketing the xxxx out of it.
It's not the best, but he'll convince enough people it's the best.
A lot of people will buy stuff at 5 times the price of a competitive product only because they believe it's better despite there not being any real evidence that it is. Marketing, and people who echo what they've heard from the marketing, is all that really matters when it comes to selling a product.
Sorta how I feel about Bose, but that is another subject.
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Marketing, marketing, marketing.
He's mainly going to try to bring in mainstream by marketing the xxxx out of it.
It's not the best, but he'll convince enough people it's the best.
A lot of people will buy stuff at 5 times the price of a competitive product only because they believe it's better despite there not being any real evidence that it is. Marketing, and people who echo what they've heard from the marketing, is all that really matters when it comes to selling a product.
Yep, it's Marketing.
I view this as another chapter in the continuing saga of people who view themselves as Marketing geniuses promoting themselves and their LLCs to venture capitalists. The Traeger PR/hype-machine staff will spend their days cranking out blog posts, posting automated email campaigns, flooding Twitter and Facebook with promotional messages, running webinars and podcasts and organizing user groups, all to attract VC money so the financials look amazing when the company goes public.
He’ll do this because he probably has a pile of Traeger stock options that don’t need to vest. The strike price was probably set at a level that reflects the valuation put on the company’s last round of private funding. If Traeger goes public at a valuation higher than that, his options could be worth a great deal.
It’s common for interviewers to be fed some questions that the subject wants to answer. Amy Feldman asks, “How big is the business?†Andrus answers, “We’re north of $300 million and our growth is accelerating.†That makes me think that to pull off a successful IPO, Traeger needs to reach $500 million in annual sales. What are the odds that Jeremy can do it? How savvy is he? What will investors on Wall Street think of him? My sense is that things will go well. He did something similar with headsets. He just needs to tick all the right boxes, and he’s already started. He sweetens the bait for the VCs by casually answering Amy’s question about plans with, “We’re going to be a billion-dollar brand in five years in terms of revenue.â€
Look for the IPO in less than three years.
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It seems that they're dumping a lot more money into marketing. They had a very large area and party at the American Royal. They also kicked in some money for the highest placing call that was cooked on a Traeger. I also know that Shiggin and Grinnin was hired for a big class / cooking event at Traeger this past weekend. They certainly seem to be going after the competition Market.
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If a good 2K grill would overtake the BBQ market. Why aren't there MAK and Memphis is every backyard . Commercial, no one is taking out cookshacks and putting in Traeger. Just saying it doesn't make it so.
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I also think he may have missed the window for up-selling to current pellet pit owners. I go back to my polls. In no 3, when I ask what you would buy if you were buying a new pit (and this is from sophisticated pellet people -- folks who know the market and products) only 1% say Traeger. But I do agree that marketing seems to work in America. Who knows, maybe he bought the PH site and took it down so folks would not have access to a great pool of info on numerous pits!! :pig:
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Just read very brief story about this guy. His prior company, Skullcandy, did a great job of marketing a decent sounding headphone at a great value. They sounded just as good or better than lower end products from much larger companies that had been in that market for years. But, that product was marketed to a different demographic than grills and at a much lower price point.
Once he figures out the niche where Traeger should play, I wouldn't be surprised if he is successful at growing to $1b in revenue. How sustainable that is remains to be seen. I think his competition is closer to Weber than it is to Memphis, MAK, Cookshack, or any of those higher priced pellet grills. I think he is looking to convert the gas grill or charcoal grill owner to a pellet grill and attempting to provide them a ton of resources to make the conversion easier for consumers. Over the last 12-18 months, it looks like they have done a lot to their products, accessories, website resources, etc.
I think it is great for the industry as it will force others to develop new ideas and keep pricing in check. It may also drop out some manufacturers who don't belong in the industry too.
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In the big picture of backyard BBQ, I think wood-pellet grills are still relatively unknown. Yes they have been around for a long time, but there are a ton of people that have no clue what they are. I think our views are skewed because we are on a pellet grill specific forum. I have 10 or so friends that all own Traegers and of them, I am the only one who is on a BBQ specific forum. So I think his numbers may not be as out of line as we think. Andrus's goal is to make Traeger a household name, something akin to Weber. He is a marketing genius. He has aligned himself with BBQ celebrity and is flooding social media with ads and videos. I am listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports and they talk about their Traeger every day (of course Traeger is a show sponsor). I don't think their goal is to have a Timberline in every home, but to have a Traeger in every home. They are looking to be a gas grill/charcoal grill replacement. To the lay person who is not a BBQ savant, a digitally controlled grill that gives wood grilled flavor is very intriguing.
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In the big picture of backyard BBQ, I think wood-pellet grills are still relatively unknown. Yes they have been around for a long time, but there are a ton of people that have no clue what they are. I think our views are skewed because we are on a pellet grill specific forum. I have 10 or so friends that all own Traegers and of them, I am the only one who is on a BBQ specific forum. So I think his numbers may not be as out of line as we think. Andrus's goal is to make Traeger a household name, something akin to Weber. He is a marketing genius. He has aligned himself with BBQ celebrity and is flooding social media with ads and videos. I am listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports and they talk about their Traeger every day (of course Traeger is a show sponsor). I don't think their goal is to have a Timberline in every home, but to have a Traeger in every home. They are looking to be a gas grill/charcoal grill replacement. To the lay person who is not a BBQ savant, a digitally controlled grill that gives wood grilled flavor is very intriguing.
You said what I wanted to say better. ;D
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I also think he may have missed the window for up-selling to current pellet pit owners. I go back to my polls. In no 3, when I ask what you would buy if you were buying a new pit (and this is from sophisticated pellet people -- folks who know the market and products) only 1% say Traeger. But I do agree that marketing seems to work in America. Who knows, maybe he bought the PH site and took it down so folks would not have access to a great pool of info on numerous pits!! :pig:
I still put on the table that if that's so "IT SURE BACKFIRED!" because of this forum, you and Bentley and the members! I believe this site will grow bigger and better than the original! That and a Quarter still won't buy any of us a cup of coffee, but I do believe it to be true!
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I was bored so I looked up average sales of most pellet grill companies. Memphis is skewed due to them being a whollowned subsidiary of Dalsin Industries. I excluded Firecraft since I would not find the data. I included Weber even though they don't currently have a pellet grill just for comparison.
Company Annual Sales in Millions
Weber-Stephen 1636.9
Traeger Pellet Grills LLC 100.447
Memphis (Dalsin Industries) 44.54
Cookshack 9.16
Mak Metals, Inc 6.25
Yoder Smokers 6
Camp Chef (Logan Outdoor Products, LLC) 5.26
GMG Products LLC 3.23
Kuma Stoves, Inc 2.58
Louisiana Grills (Dansons) 1.52
Pitt Boss (Dansons) 1.52
Rec Tec .23
Smokin Brothers .18
Blaz'n Grill Works .13
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My first pellet pit was a Traeger,L'il Tex..As it was new to me I had a learning curve to go thru..In those days (about 6 + years) Traeger had some problems as well.
Back then I could phone in and talk to some very helpful and knowledgeable people. A lot I got to know by name..Good old fashioned service.
My most recent encounters were opposite;People I had never heard of that had text book answers and "programmed" to answer quickly and get on to the next call.
Years ago I dismantled my fan motor for service and inadvertently reversed the coil resulting in the fan turning backwards. A call to Traeger connected me to Jake who said give me a minute, then came back with the coil is reversed..When asked how did you know,Jake replied we got some motors in that were assembled incorrectly. A totally honest answer from a very nice person.
Not too long ago someone on Pelletheads had a new fan that was blowing backwards..When he called Traeger they couldn't help other than to suggest an other fan..I helped him with info on how to reverse the coil. That solved the problem.
It just isn't the same mentality or knowledge anymore..Perhaps my age is showing..Joe Traeger made his money and has moved on.
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In the big picture of backyard BBQ, I think wood-pellet grills are still relatively unknown. Yes they have been around for a long time, but there are a ton of people that have no clue what they are. I think our views are skewed because we are on a pellet grill specific forum. I have 10 or so friends that all own Traegers and of them, I am the only one who is on a BBQ specific forum. So I think his numbers may not be as out of line as we think. Andrus's goal is to make Traeger a household name, something akin to Weber. He is a marketing genius. He has aligned himself with BBQ celebrity and is flooding social media with ads and videos. I am listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports and they talk about their Traeger every day (of course Traeger is a show sponsor). I don't think their goal is to have a Timberline in every home, but to have a Traeger in every home. They are looking to be a gas grill/charcoal grill replacement. To the lay person who is not a BBQ savant, a digitally controlled grill that gives wood grilled flavor is very intriguing.
Its been amazing the questions I get from my friends about my Traeger since they started advertising on the DP show specifically. Some of the stuff they do is pure gimmick but for better or worse they are getting folks to look at pellet grills as a all in one replacement for your standard $199 Walmart/Target gas grill. My issue is now its the "popular" thing to have on your deck and show off to folks and that is not sustainable in the long run.
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In the big picture of backyard BBQ, I think wood-pellet grills are still relatively unknown. Yes they have been around for a long time, but there are a ton of people that have no clue what they are. I think our views are skewed because we are on a pellet grill specific forum. I have 10 or so friends that all own Traegers and of them, I am the only one who is on a BBQ specific forum. So I think his numbers may not be as out of line as we think. Andrus's goal is to make Traeger a household name, something akin to Weber. He is a marketing genius. He has aligned himself with BBQ celebrity and is flooding social media with ads and videos. I am listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports and they talk about their Traeger every day (of course Traeger is a show sponsor). I don't think their goal is to have a Timberline in every home, but to have a Traeger in every home. They are looking to be a gas grill/charcoal grill replacement. To the lay person who is not a BBQ savant, a digitally controlled grill that gives wood grilled flavor is very intriguing.
You said what I wanted to say better. ;D
+2
Previous responses don't account for us on PF not being your typical pellet user. We're the far end of the bell curve. I suspect Andrus will be successful.
DK
PS I was that one guy who said I would buy another Traeger
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When i meet new people and we are sharing our interests/passions/obsessions i inevitably talk about BBQ. At some point equipment comes up and i tell them that i cook with pellets, 9 times out of 10 the response is "oh you cook on a Traeger". I usually say something like ...same idea, different brand. And leave it at that.
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Its been amazing the questions I get from my friends about my Traeger since they started advertising on the DP show specifically. Some of the stuff they do is pure gimmick but for better or worse they are getting folks to look at pellet grills as a all in one replacement for your standard $199 Walmart/Target gas grill. My issue is now its the "popular" thing to have on your deck and show off to folks and that is not sustainable in the long run.
It's not sustainable because the grills last a long time. So the Traeger loyalists will usually only buy one in their lifetimes. Pit manufacturers try to counter that lack of churn by selling private label consumables. Weber took an additional route by periodically introducing their new and improved models. At a church function where several of us brought charcoal grills, more than half of the Weber owners had added a Performer or Summit (I think) to their old kettles. It may work for Traeger.
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I was bored so I looked up average sales of most pellet grill companies. Memphis is skewed due to them being a whollowned subsidiary of Dalsin Industries. I excluded Firecraft since I would not find the data. I included Weber even though they don't currently have a pellet grill just for comparison.
Company Annual Sales in Millions
Weber-Stephen 1636.9
Traeger Pellet Grills LLC 100.447
Memphis (Dalsin Industries) 44.54
Cookshack 9.16
Mak Metals, Inc 6.25
Yoder Smokers 6
Camp Chef (Logan Outdoor Products, LLC) 5.26
GMG Products LLC 3.23
Kuma Stoves, Inc 2.58
Louisiana Grills (Dansons) 1.52
Pitt Boss (Dansons) 1.52
Rec Tec .23
Smokin Brothers .18
Blaz'n Grill Works .13
I am not sure where these numbers come from since several of these companies are privately held. So these might just be someone's guess as to their numbers. Traeger sells pellets, so I don't know what % of sales is pits and what is pellets.
And the GMG number makes no sense to me. If you average the GMG pits and come up with an average price of $500 per grill, $3.23 million would be sales of about 6,200 pits per year -- and I have reason to believe they are selling more than that yearly. Or is my math wrong? And the Cookshack number seems wrong.
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Cookshack makes electric smokers too, MAK is a metal fabrication 1st and a pellet bbq manufacture 2nd, Hearthland noted, I think Yoder sells a lot more offsets then pellet units, Kuma does stoves, etc...so from just the pellet unit standpoint, the numbers are very skewed...unless you know theses number are just from their pellet unit sales...And I do not know, because they are a private company, as most of these are, so not sure where you are getting your sales figures from, but I would have to say that GMG & Cookshack do more then what you are showing...
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It is what I have thought since about 2010. I really thought they would be fading by now...But Name recognition...You eat Jell-O and blow your nose in a Kleenex...you don't eat gelatin and blow your nose in a tissue...
Traeger is playing catch up at this point.
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I got all of the data from D & B Hoovers website (Dunn and Bradstreet data base). I am not 100% sure how accurate or up to date the numbers are, but I went with what they had. Take it for what its worth. I'm just trying to show that Traeger still has a majority market share and that on the grand scheme of things, pellet cooker companies are not all as big as you would think.
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And the GMG number makes no sense to me. If you average the GMG pits and come up with an average price of $500 per grill, $3.23 million would be sales of about 6,200 pits per year -- and I have reason to believe they are selling more than that yearly. Or is my math wrong? And the Cookshack number seems wrong.
i would guess that number is based on wholesale sales to dealers, so that number could be closer to 10,000+ units depending on what the retail markup is.
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Are any of the Traeger unit's built in the USA? or are they all from China?
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That's the advantage you have when you are first to market.
Name recognition.
Yes, Traeger isn't going to convince many purists (like 70% of the people on this forum) that they make a better pellet grill than anyone else.
What they will be able to do is convince people with the 3 year old Home Depot Charbroil gas burner that is rusting with 2 bad burners that a Traeger is far better than that and that the Charbroil owner's wife will like something she just has to set the temp for vs lighting gas burners and changing tanks.
Obviously it's a pump and dump ploy by the new owner.
Marketing $$$, build sales. Make it look like it's taking off like a rocket, IPO, sell stock and run.
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Are any of the Traeger unit's built in the USA? or are they all from China?
I don't know for sure, but if you're trying to grow mass market share you're going to go China on that route.
You're not going to hit th entry level Charbroil and low end Weber customers by making a solid-built-in-America grill and do it for $300-$600 a grill.
There focus is all about market share right now funded by marketing. That means the money is being spent in marketing and less in materials and R&D.
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Are any of the Traeger unit's built in the USA? or are they all from China?
All made in China afaik.
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I got all of the data from D & B Hoovers website (Dunn and Bradstreet data base). I am not 100% sure how accurate or up to date the numbers are, but I went with what they had. Take it for what its worth. I'm just trying to show that Traeger still has a majority market share and that on the grand scheme of things, pellet cooker companies are not all as big as you would think.
D&B information is not trustworthy for just about anything IMO in dealing with them over the years. They have limited access to information and distribute it as if it was gospel.
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Great replies all. What a well informed group we have HERE.
I never heard of a pellet smoker until about 5 years ago when we gave a Traeger Jr at werk. At that time I was really tired of baby sitting my WSM, so I checked it out. The thought never crossed my mind to dig a little deeper than Traeger. I saw it, it looked cool, got free shipping on Amazon and here I am today. I never heard of Traeger prior to the give away.
That said, I don't believe there was another comparably sized pit made by anyone else at the time. I simply don't have the need for a larger smoker than what I have, and the Davey Crocket doesn't werk at all for me. In my case there's simply not another more better option. I do believe I'm in the minority when it comes to any sort of outdoor cooking enthusiast regardless of fuel choice.
All roads do not lead to Rome. Mass marketing is a great tool when pointed at the 'see all, believe all' consumer. Yet I have to wonder that anyone willing to shell out $600.00+ for a pellet smoker wouldn't do a little research. It's simply to easy to google 'pellet smokers' and get 21,000,000 results.
I hope the guy makes it as it will be better for all consumers. IF they're not to lazy to do a little research. It's capitalism at its finest. The bar has been raised yearly across all manufacturers. Can Traeger keep up? Not that I can see. It appears they are at least trying.
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I agree that its all in the marketing. As a motorcycle guy for 40 years here's an example,
Honda makes GR8, reliable motorcycles yet so many of its models have gone away because they don't know how to market a Very, Very good product!
Harley on the other hand makes a mediocre product but markets a lifestyle around their product which has been Very, Very successful over many decades!
Traeger will continue to do well because people buy on impulse. If someone continues to see something in front of then & like it they will buy it.
The person who wants to get into pellet cooking & does his/her homework on different pits will probably not buy a Traeger. A person looking to buy/replace their current pellet smoker are also unlikely to buy another Traeger.
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With the cost of pellet cookers and the wealth of information online, I suspect many new buyers are going to do their home work before making such a big purchase, in doing that research I am not sure that the Traeger brand is going to jump out at them as the one they need to buy, there are cheaper and better units all over the place now to compete against them.
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With the cost of pellet cookers and the wealth of information online, I suspect many new buyers are going to do their home work before making such a big purchase, in doing that research I am not sure that the Traeger brand is going to jump out at them as the one they need to buy, there are cheaper and better units all over the place now to compete against them.
I agree with this analysis. Your average gas grill person is spending about $300 for a nice, shiny, easy to use and understand grill. I know I am cheap, but even before pellet pits, I would not spend $300 on a grill. That is a lot of money to me to cook burgers and steaks -- what most home grillers are cooking. Suddenly, they are suppose to just shell out $700 for something they have never really seen or heard about? Maybe they will eventually put out $700, but I don't think it will be an impulse purchase, I think they will do a bit more research for that price point.
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With the cost of pellet cookers and the wealth of information online, I suspect many new buyers are going to do their home work before making such a big purchase, in doing that research I am not sure that the Traeger brand is going to jump out at them as the one they need to buy, there are cheaper and better units all over the place now to compete against them.
The issue is, if people go home and google "Traeger" they'll find Traeger and buy Traeger.
80% will buy on impulse.
RecTec is buying add space on google for Traeger so they show up, but the rest of page one are sites of Traeger, Traeger recipes, Traeger videos.
How many will go home and actually google "Pellet grill"?
For me it wasn't an impulse buy, but for many it is. Just like some people will drive onto a car dealership lot and buy a car without looking or shopping anywhere else.
They'll buy someone who can fix their "problem" of needing a new car, and a way to afford it (financing).
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For me it wasn't an impulse buy, but for many it is. Just like some people will drive onto a car dealership lot and buy a car without looking or shopping anywhere else.
They'll buy someone who can fix their "problem" of needing a new car, and a way to afford it (financing).
So you were rational, but everyone else is just an impulse shopper?
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Marketing $$$, build sales. Make it look like it's taking off like a rocket, IPO, sell stock and run.
Exactly. Jeremy Andrus is probably following the new business model; Grow fast—Lose money—Go public. That works because the venture capitalists that fuel the system aren’t any better than you and me at determining which companies will succeed big. As a result, they invest in all of them. They’ll lose a bundle on the losers but they’ll win hundreds of bundles on the winners. “Spray and pray,†they call it—hoping that somehow, if only through dumb luck, some of their money will land on the next Facebook, and the payoff from that one hit will more than make up for the duds. So, viewed in the composite, they look like shrewd investors.
They’re looking for unicorns—privately held corporations that supposedly are worth billions, even tens of billions, of dollars. Fortune Magazine wrote that there are now 145 unicorns, nearly twice as many as existed only seven months before. The wannabe unicorns make themselves look perfect by hyping sales growth and showing millions of dollars in operating capital. What they don’t talk about publicly is the other side of their balance sheets and the fact that they’re hemorrhaging money. They’ll be made whole (and then some) when their IPO stock is purchased at the level they require.
Here are some recent examples of the Grow fast—Lose money—Go public methodology. One of the first money-losing unicorns to go public was PayPal. The COO, Reid Hoffman, left a rich man in 2002 and co-founded LinkedIn. In three of its thirteen years LinkedIn has reported an annual profit. In the other ten, it has posted losses. Recently the losses have been prodigious—LinkedIn lost $150 million in the first nine months of 2015. Yet Hoffman’s net worth stands at nearly $5 billion. Amazon, the online retailer, is twenty-three years old and has never made huge profits, yet its founder, Jeff Bezos, is worth $60 billion. Salesforce.com, a software company, reported net losses totaling three-quarters of a billion dollars from 2011 through 2014, yet its founder, Marc Benioff, is worth $4 billion. Not long ago Twitter was valued at more than $30 billion. Yet it has never reported an annual profit, and has lost billions of dollars. For eleven years Twitter has undergone wave after wave of management upheaval; hiring and firing CEOs, reshuffling, reorganizing, announcing new business plans, making acquisitions. The people responsible for this mess have become incredibly wealthy. Two of Twitter’s co-founders, Evan Williams and Jack Dorsey, are billionaires.
Dorsey was eventually forced out of Twitter and started a credit card processing and point of sale terminal company called Square, Inc. by raising $590 million in venture capital. In November 2015 he successfully sold shares to the public, despite having lost nearly $500 million—half a billion dollars!—in just four years. In 2015, Dorsey became CEO of Twitter again, so he now runs two companies.
Anyway, Andrus obviously has access to borrowed money, he was formerly with Solamere (Venture) Capital. He can hype as well as anyone. As MN-Smoker wrote this smells like another round of, “Marketing $$$, build sales. Make it look like it's taking off like a rocket, IPO, sell stock and run.â€
“Money for Nothingâ€
Mark Knopfler, Dire Straits
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I wown't buy one, but I'd invest in the company now if I could. These guys are going to crush it.
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I understand what you are saying pmillen and this may be the same. But selling a physical product -- like a pellet pit -- feels different to me than selling concepts and ideas which is what a lot of your examples involve. Twitter might not make a profit, but millions use it and millions more have heard of it, so people think it is worthwhile investing in. I don't know if that mentality translates to pits. We shall see.
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Twitter might not make a profit, but millions use it and millions more have heard of it, so people think it is worthwhile investing in.
Yeah, that's the business plan's Marketing element, Grow fast.
I don't know if that mentality translates to pits. We shall see.
Yes, we shall see. Andrus has ramped-up the Marketing exponentially. Wait for the commercials that show a family discarding a gas grill. Super Bowl?
BTW, I need to stop ranting. Thinking about the Silicon Valley crashes at the turn of the century gives me angina. While this isn’t a direct copy of that, there are some worrisome similarities. I'll never see Traeger's balance sheet but the recent expenses associated with the relocation and Marketing efforts would exhaust many companies revenue streams.
(https://iqznjq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mnc1bHpFO72a231PzJ1jL8uGtLBZmMJ7yJHywG7VgW59233PR9ZxYKALkUEsCD4NaYPTdeMqORcFdUvWcpf82SvL2Hd9NbmpvaEPliPfPDPlessR3D-8WP1c44rH-cf6h9p3Vi6zShFuF1kf5mnp4e8-T0g4Kd9L-ewmjcdBePMbcUbkwkTxwtonCAeMlXoNrq8O8oAP0Wxv8Tjs4NTSfDA?width=256&height=181&cropmode=none) Remember the abandoned Porsche with the Dot Comer license plate?
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(https://iqznjq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mnc1bHpFO72a231PzJ1jL8uGtLBZmMJ7yJHywG7VgW59233PR9ZxYKALkUEsCD4NaYPTdeMqORcFdUvWcpf82SvL2Hd9NbmpvaEPliPfPDPlessR3D-8WP1c44rH-cf6h9p3Vi6zShFuF1kf5mnp4e8-T0g4Kd9L-ewmjcdBePMbcUbkwkTxwtonCAeMlXoNrq8O8oAP0Wxv8Tjs4NTSfDA?width=256&height=181&cropmode=none) Remember the abandoned Porsche with the Dot Comer license plate?
No, but you're talking to a person who drives a 14 year old Chevy, still pays bills with a check and stamps, and feels that she has mastered everything there is to know about technology because she moved from a typewriter to a basic word processing program (and I still don't know how to move the margins). But the way I look at it, I will be the leader when North Korea destroys our power grid with some fancy bomb I read about the other day. You will all be wanting to know how to write in cursive and I will sell you my low tech knowledge! :pig:
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(https://iqznjq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mnc1bHpFO72a231PzJ1jL8uGtLBZmMJ7yJHywG7VgW59233PR9ZxYKALkUEsCD4NaYPTdeMqORcFdUvWcpf82SvL2Hd9NbmpvaEPliPfPDPlessR3D-8WP1c44rH-cf6h9p3Vi6zShFuF1kf5mnp4e8-T0g4Kd9L-ewmjcdBePMbcUbkwkTxwtonCAeMlXoNrq8O8oAP0Wxv8Tjs4NTSfDA?width=256&height=181&cropmode=none) Remember the abandoned Porsche with the Dot Comer license plate?
No, but you're talking to a person who drives a 14 year old Chevy, still pays bills with a check and stamps, and feels that she has mastered everything there is to know about technology because she moved from a typewriter to a basic word processing program (and I still don't know how to move the margins). But the way I look at it, I will be the leader when North Korea destroys our power grid with some fancy bomb I read about the other day. You will all be wanting to know how to write in cursive and I will sell you my low tech knowledge! :pig:
I'm with Kristin! I learned how to type at a young age and write in cursive. My 14 year old prefers a text over a hand written note in cursive. She'll figure it out but ain't happy about it!
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I have to say that was a very interesting article. Overall I think the pellet grill community is growing each and every day but has a long way to go as many people still don't know what a pellet grill is or what its about. Maybe Traeger grills are not the best overall but at the price point they're targeting and with strong aggressive marketing who knows what Jeremy can do with this company.
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I agree...but the pellet unit came out roughly the same time as the PC, a little later, but not much. Can you imagine this statement being made about a PC?
Overall I think the pellet grill community is growing each and every day but has a long way to go as many people still don't know what a pellet grill is or what its about.
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I was bored so I looked up average sales of most pellet grill companies. Memphis is skewed due to them being a whollowned subsidiary of Dalsin Industries. I excluded Firecraft since I would not find the data. I included Weber even though they don't currently have a pellet grill just for comparison.
Company Annual Sales in Millions
Weber-Stephen 1636.9
Traeger Pellet Grills LLC 100.447
Memphis (Dalsin Industries) 44.54
Cookshack 9.16
Mak Metals, Inc 6.25
Yoder Smokers 6
Camp Chef (Logan Outdoor Products, LLC) 5.26
GMG Products LLC 3.23
Kuma Stoves, Inc 2.58
Louisiana Grills (Dansons) 1.52
Pitt Boss (Dansons) 1.52
Rec Tec .23
Smokin Brothers .18
Blaz'n Grill Works .13
Thanks for looking these numbers up! This is great insight. Although people are picking apart your numbers because it doesn't specifically show pellet specific revenue, I found it to still be very helpful. Before seeing these numbers, I oftened wondered just how big were the pellet grill companies in terms of revenue.
For the other business folks on this forum, I wish Gartner had a magic quadrant for pellet grills. Or perhaps we should create our own and submit to them...haha.
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I find it hard to believe that some of these companies are operating sell less than $500k of grills per year if not less than $1mm per year. I would be concerned about buying any of their grills new because I don't think they would be around long. Thus, as I mentioned earlier, I don't trust the source or the numbers themselves. Not logical in my mind.
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I find it hard to believe that some of these companies are operating sell less than $500k of grills per year if not less than $1mm per year. I would be concerned about buying any of their grills new because I don't think they would be around long. Thus, as I mentioned earlier, I don't trust the source or the numbers themselves. Not logical in my mind.
A valid point, but let me respond metaphorically...
The 2 worst vehicles I've ever owned were Chevy's. The 1985 Z28 had constant transmission and suspension problems. After 3 years, the body started rotting out. The 1990 4X4 pickup was easily a nobel prize winner for the lemon law. The west coast rep had spent time in my home on 3 occasions.
I lost that truck in the impending divorce and was relegated to getting some cheap reliable form of transportation. Enter KIA..
Who?
New kid on the block that offered a bare bones vehicle with a 5 year warranty. 1st year for sales in the US. Sold!
I beat that car into submission for 5 years, and it still ran like a Swiss watch. I'm currently still with my 2004 version (spectra). and it runs like a champ. Just passed 90K miles and an emission test. I'll never buy anything but KIA.
The little guy on the block that has everything going for it.
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KIA was new to the USA, but I am sure they were not a brand spanking new business. You need a lot of backing to build a car factory. How can you sell $130,000 worth of grills in a year and still be around to make them the next year.
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Interesting thread. I kind of like the conspiracy theory. After all, I don't think anyone has ever seen Burke123 and Jeremy Andrus in the same room together. Come to think of it I'm not sure if anyone as seen Burke123, period!
It sounds to me like Jeremy is trying his best to make Traeger synonymous with pellet grills; like Xerox with copiers or Kleenex with facial tissues. You can't really blame him for that. However, it stands to reason that if that is your plan, you are going to want to get rid of anything that promotes other products on an equal playing field. That would be about the only reason I could see for investing money in a site and then shutting it down.
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Then you will really like this. Again, I was asked to deal with the person who bought Pelletheads.com. Keep in mind I have no idea who I was really dealing with, I was just told it was OK to do it by Brenda Hill. The person I was led to believe was Burk123 1st name on the email was Jeramy and his phone number was a Utah area code...
Interesting thread. I kind of like the conspiracy theory. After all, I don't think anyone has ever seen Burke123 and Jeremy Andrus in the same room together. .
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Then you will really like this. Again, I was asked to deal with the person who bought Pelletheads.com. Keep in mind I have no idea who I was really dealing with, I was just told it was OK to do it by Brenda Hill. The person I was led to believe was Burk123 1st name on the email was Jeramy and his phone number was a Utah area code...
That's fascinating.
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This thread started out interesting and it keeps getting better. This latest theory makes sense in a number of different ways, the biggest being the return on investment, and would be the first theory that I’ve read that would actually make sense financially.
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Then you will really like this. Again, I was asked to deal with the person who bought Pelletheads.com. Keep in mind I have no idea who I was really dealing with, I was just told it was OK to do it by Brenda Hill. The person I was led to believe was Burk123 1st name on the email was Jeramy and his phone number was a Utah area code...
This gets more and more interesting. Perhaps he wanted to get rid of the performance reviews of all the grills Larry and Bentley reviewed?
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Right before the site went down, there was an edit to one of the posts the read 'Burk Resources LL'.
I now present to you:
http://utcompanies.com/company/burk-resources-llc-g9N
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I think Bent is having a little fun, especially in light of the JFK stuff coming out. What he says is true, but the guy he dealt with also had a last name and the spelling of the first and last name was unique and he had a presence (limited) on line which could be followed. I will admit it is a strange co-incidence that a "Jeramy" who recently hailed from the Salt Lake area with a Salt Lake cell number bought PH and now we see an article about "Jeremy" from Park City, Utah who purchased Traeger. But lots of strange things happen in life.
More than half of the performance test on PH were sadly and severely outdated. If you wanted to compete against those brands, you are better leaving a 6 and 7 year old performance test on GMG and Memphis with woefully outdated technology on-line and doing a test of the new Timberline to contrast. Also, nearly every performance test was without photos rendering them nearly useless and very distracting. Again, if you want to compete, leave the garbage in place on the old tests and post stuff on your shiny new stuff. You look objective, but the competitors look pathetic in comparison.
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BURKINSHAW, JERAMY
Has an Internet trail. At one time he lived in HERRIMAN, UT. He relocated twice and retained his Utah cellular number. He currently resides in BRADENTON, FL. There's more but in deference to his privacy...
Most of us have this kind of easily obtainable trail.
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BURKINSHAW, JERAMY
You folks sure know how to kill a good conspiracy theory. Ususally people don't stoop to letting facts get in the way of a good story!!
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If Pelletheads.com come back online great, I will put my theory to bed, but until that happens, I believe it was bought to be shut down. Do I believe this guy from Traeger had anything to do with it...NO I DO NOT!
But I do believe it was bought to be shut down!
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If Pelletheads.com come back online great, I will put my theory to bed, but until that happens, I believe it was bought to be shut down. Do I believe this guy from Traeger had anything to do with it...NO I DO NOT!
But I do believe it was bought to be shut down!
If so, why would he leave a connection to Burk Resources LLC? Or is he being played like a fiddle?
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I am not sure what you mean? That people know about a business? Why would they/he care? I doubt that anyone has tried to contact him...
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With the cost of pellet cookers and the wealth of information online, I suspect many new buyers are going to do their home work before making such a big purchase, in doing that research I am not sure that the Traeger brand is going to jump out at them as the one they need to buy, there are cheaper and better units all over the place now to compete against them.
What you mentioned proved true for me. I'm a newbie to the pellet market, bought my GMD Jim Bowie in April. First introduced to the concept of pellet grills by seeing the Traeger roadshow at Costco. When I finally decided I was going to purchase, I did some online research. Did a search for Traeger, and instead of finding a lot of Traeger propaganda, I found more articles and videos from Traeger competitors explaining why their grills were better.
I stopped into my local grill store in Scottsdale, AZ yesterday (10/29/17) to pick up a bag of pellets. I got nervous because they're in the process of building a large Traeger display. Traeger logo on the wall, with fancy stained wood all around it, and cool accent lighting. The GMG grills were in the middle of the aisle, and hard to reach due to all of the construction going on to build the Traeger display. I hope this store isn't switching to focusing more on Traeger's, and less on GMG.
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With the cost of pellet cookers and the wealth of information online, I suspect many new buyers are going to do their home work before making such a big purchase...
I agree that "many" will. I'm not certain that the majority will.
A good pitch with a hands-on experience or demonstration is an extremely effective on-the-spot sales method that eliminates a potential customer's ability for research. The Shopsmith woodworking tool was almost always sold this way. Although it's most effective for less costly items like cookware, vacuum cleaners, blenders, knives, makeup, and such.
The thread How did you get involved or introduced to pellet grilling (https://pelletfan.com/index.php?topic=110.msg487#msg487) has examples of research and on-the-spot purchases.