Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: Bentley on November 09, 2017, 02:45:15 PM
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I have been trying to cook biscuits from scratch for a lot of years. Basically 5 ingredients, cold water or buttermilk, flour, fat, salt & baking powder. I have tried many different forms, styles, techniques...call it what you want. I cant get it. I have given up many times.
I went to this cheat method, and it is pretty good! Nice color, good rise, but a little flour tasting.
(https://i.imgur.com/ofhCTe8h.jpg)
My latest foray has been nothing less then embarrassing! Now mind you I have been a student of biscuit making for 15-18 years and I can not graduate. I have been told many things...1st it was I was using self rising flour, that was a no-no I was told, so I stopped. Next I was working the dough to much, so I stopped. Next I was twisting the biscuit cutter, can't do that, the biscuit wont rise, so I stopped. I was not using enough baking soda, I have to find "real" buttermilk, etc, etc, etc....So I have come to believe that most Grandmas's simply lie about their biscuits and they are using yeast with it. So yesterday I look for a hybrid, yeast/buttermilk biscuit recipe. I find one, problem is, you probably should throw out yeast that says use by 4/2014, or you end up with this...
(https://i.imgur.com/FCKZIjjh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Sm1wJrRh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AeuuiyMh.jpg)
Truly embarrassing...Ham biscuits that look like they were made with sugar cookies!
So, I have fresh yeast, I used half bacon fat and half butter, and after a 90 minute rise, this is what it looks like. Then knocked down. I will go roll out and proof them for 30 minutes, cook and see what we have.
(https://i.imgur.com/73bo7KPh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2XInZklh.jpg)
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Awesome!
You will be our official biscuit cooker at the Royal next year.
Z
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Hmmmm....ham biscuits on sugar cookies..... you might just be on to something there Bentley.
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After a 30 minute proof, they have almost doubled in size. Dosed in butter, waiting for oven to hit 400° so they can go in and cook. I am encouraged today!
(https://i.imgur.com/aOFDkTFh.jpg)
If all goes well, I hope they will look like this!
(https://i.imgur.com/MM25NQCh.jpg)
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Wow I haven't had homemade biscuits in years. Nice job.
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If you do not bake biscuits at the Royal next year you will be banned for life.
Z
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Why aren't you making them on the Memphis?
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It will be a happy, joyous day once I get it right! But that day ain't today! Time to quit again!
(https://i.imgur.com/hRXEyCbh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ppydxkah.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yqdoMUPh.jpg)
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Just to easy to use the oven! I guess the next thing I do is adjust the fat. I need to get some shorting and get away from the bacon fat, see if that ole grandmas tale is just more BS...
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What kind of flour are you using? I think that pastry flour is typically used for biscuits and will rise higher than AP.
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I am using AP, so I guess I have completely left the flour equation out. So I will get some cake flour and see if that makes a difference!
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This is the recipe I use for my homemade biscuits and Elk gravy.
http://www.bhg.com/recipe/breads/best-ever-biscuits/ (http://www.bhg.com/recipe/breads/best-ever-biscuits/)
Step #2 was the key for me.
I tried and tried to make them then my wife ask me if I was using the pastry cutter in step #2. I said no I just cut butter sticks with knife and kneaded with my hands... She pulled the cutter out of the drawer and said use this next time. That changed my biscuits 100% for the better. I do take the butter sticks out to soften just a little before using.
I don't have any photos of them but my mom and wife recamended that I had to start making double batches so we could have some left for the next days.
Again step #2 made mine more fluffy/flaky.
Modified: Also don't leave out the cream of tarter.
Mudflap
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I am using AP, so I guess I have completely left the flour equation out. So I will get some cake flour and see if that makes a difference!
Cake flour got even lower protein than pastry flour. If all you can find is cake flour, maybe mix it half and half with AP and that should get you in the right ballpark. I'm no biscuit expert so all this may have no effect whatsoever.
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This is the recipe I use for my homemade biscuits and Elk gravy.
http://www.bhg.com/recipe/breads/best-ever-biscuits/ (http://www.bhg.com/recipe/breads/best-ever-biscuits/)
Step #2 was the key for me.
I tried and tried to make them then my wife ask me if I was using the pastry cutter in step #2. I said no I just cut butter sticks with knife and kneaded with my hands... She pulled the cutter out of the drawer and said use this next time. That changed my biscuits 100% for the better. I do take the butter sticks out to soften just a little before using.
I don't have any photos of them but my mom and wife recamended that I had to start making double batches so we could have some left for the next days.
Again step #2 made mine more fluffy/flaky.
Modified: Also don't leave out the cream of tarter.
Mudflap
^this^
Grandma was right when it comes to shortening. The pastry cutter is a valued tool. I've even read of chilled shortening being optimal. What you want is little balls/pieces before slightly rolling into a cutting shape.
Biscuits are nothing like bread. They live in a world of their own. When was the last time you ever heard of bread and gravy?
If yer desperate, I suppose it could be doable. :puke:
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This is the recipe I use for my homemade biscuits and Elk gravy.
http://www.bhg.com/recipe/breads/best-ever-biscuits/ (http://www.bhg.com/recipe/breads/best-ever-biscuits/)
Step #2 was the key for me.
I tried and tried to make them then my wife ask me if I was using the pastry cutter in step #2. I said no I just cut butter sticks with knife and kneaded with my hands... She pulled the cutter out of the drawer and said use this next time. That changed my biscuits 100% for the better. I do take the butter sticks out to soften just a little before using.
I don't have any photos of them but my mom and wife recamended that I had to start making double batches so we could have some left for the next days.
Again step #2 made mine more fluffy/flaky.
Modified: Also don't leave out the cream of tarter.
Mudflap
^this^
Grandma was right when it comes to shortening. The pastry cutter is a valued tool. I've even read of chilled shortening being optimal. What you want is little balls/pieces before slightly rolling into a cutting shape.
Biscuits are nothing like bread. They live in a world of their own. When was the last time you ever heard of bread and gravy?
If yer desperate, I suppose it could be doable. :puke:
I tried it once with extra gravy...tried toast... :puke: :puke:
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Virtually every biscuit recipe I have seen calls for AP. The one no-no I heard was no self rising. I could not find cake, so I bought some bread flour just to try a different type. I had hoped to find some 00 just to see how it would do, but Wal-Mart did not have any.
As far as cutting the fat in with a pastry cutter, been doing that for a long time, so I do not think that is the issue. The Southern Biscuit mix is quite interesting. It has hard pieces of what appear to be shorting in the mix. So, I may or may not try again. Other then practicing with Competition BBQ Meats, I have never put as much time into something involving cooking and not gotten better at it. It is quite frustrating.
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Just my :2cents: ......
Use Gold Medal or Martha White brands; they have a lower protein content, which will create a more tender biscuit, but will still keep its structure, unlike the mess you would have if you used cake flour.
White bread and hamburger milk gravy is actually quite good....... :lick:
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The only bit of advice I see missing is temperature. The bakers i worked with say go hot and fast, 425. Stick with AP or pastry flour, don't over work the dough, don't press down hard when rolling out the dough. Place close together so they support each other during baking. I'm not much on biscuits, but I do prefer sourdough biscuits over regular.
Youtube should have a few helpful videos. ;)
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Worked all night thinking about biscuits so I had to make a batch before I go to bed.
(https://i.imgur.com/1HbPhYnl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/50y0R1ll.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vWgXVCZl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yxQRdZul.jpg)
No gravy...
Mudflap
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White bread and hamburger milk gravy is actually quite good.......
In the service we called that "SOS" :clap:
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You got better rise in yours then I have with mine in a long time! Nicely done! I guess the next step is to go by new baking powder and soda to make sure I am not defeating myself from the beginning.
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You got better rise in yours then I have with mine in a long time! Nicely done! I guess the next step is to go by new baking powder and soda to make sure I am not defeating myself from the beginning.
Thanks Bentley
I just notice that maybe I am cheating some. Recipe says it makes 10 and I get 7. Today I did double batch and got 14 1/2. So maybe I start out thicker or bigger round then it says?
Wife wasn't happy when I didn't make any gravy.
Only got one more night shift to go so maybe this will help me sleep. (just don't tell her its not elk gravy)
(https://i.imgur.com/DlRvK1uh.jpg)
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Use Gold Medal or Martha White brands; they have a lower protein content, which will create a more tender biscuit, but will still keep its structure, unlike the mess you would have if you used cake flour.
Hmmmmm. Bentley was going to try bread flour. Now, I don't remember for sure, but doesn't bread flour have a higher protein level yet compared to APF? Is Bentley going in the wrong direction using bread flour? Greater minds than mine (Like FMT for example) need to decide this issue.
Also BentMan, I'm rooting for you all the way so I can copy your recipe after you have done all of your experimenting and have the finished product down pat.
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Use Gold Medal or Martha White brands; they have a lower protein content, which will create a more tender biscuit, but will still keep its structure, unlike the mess you would have if you used cake flour.
Hmmmmm. Bentley was going to try bread flour. Now, I don't remember for sure, but doesn't bread flour have a higher protein level yet compared to APF? Is Bentley going in the wrong direction using bread flour? Greater minds than mine (Like FMT for example) need to decide this issue.
Also BentMan, I'm rooting for you all the way so I can copy your recipe after you have done all of your experimenting and have the finished product down pat.
Correct. You want biscuits to be tender, and higher protein will result in a tougher dough. That's why I suggested going to pastry flour which is lower than AP, but I don't the the flour would solve Bentleys current issue - there's something else that needs to be tweaked.
Bentley, save the bread flour for bread or pizza.
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No news on the biscuits, but fresh yeast and King Arthur Bread flour makes some fine, unhealthy White Bread that begs to have large pats of sweet butter placed on it right after it comes out of the oven.
Now to master this...It is delicious, but a tad to "fluffy", great for dinner rolls, but I need to figure out how to get a tad more "body" to it so it will hold up to a nice deli sandwich! I wonder if longer kneading would accomplish this?
They used to make a store bread that supposedly had a cut down the middle and they put butter in it, I can't remember the name. Tried to do that, but it did not seem to come out correct!
(https://i.imgur.com/5rwXAuVh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/C2lNS9gh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fzVg3xHh.jpg)
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Looks fantastic, love home made bread & buns.
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This has been one of the most fun threads to read. An honest cook tells us his trials and tribulations when making biscuit. I amy now have to make biscuits and see if I can duplicate the results. Oh Yea I already have that is why I do not make them.
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Rooting for your success. I can’t bake to save my life. Gave up a long time ago when I screwed up two batch’s of bread in a row. Using a bread machine :(
AltonBrown has a couple of videos about biscuits. If you haven’t watched them they may help. I really like his explanations of why things happen when we cook.
Great looking bread, it was home pride bread that had the split top and butter. Mom bought it for us once. Do t remember it being any better than the store brand.
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I remember the episode where Alton had his grandma on, and she emphasized, do not over work the dough, it looked like oatmeal when she poured it out to start working with it...it was so wet. Home Pride, sound right, thank you! Well, Kristin brought home fresh baking powder and soda, so I am gonna try one more time on the biscuits!
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Great looking loaves Bentley. If they tear too easily when slicing, try reducing any fat/oil if you included any. That should make it a little less tender. And let the loaves fully cook before slicing.
Yeah I remember Home Pride bread. I think they got in trouble because they showed butter being poured over the top, and it turned out less than 1/2 tsp was all they really used :)
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That's some absolutely beautiful looking loaves of bread.
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Holy cow that bread looks excellent.
Fried beef Bologna, American cheese and mustard on that would be phenomenal.
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Here is some good info on flour
http://www.happilyunprocessed.com/the-basics/flour-facts/
Z
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I am not sure if you meant cool? But I believe that is the exact reason my that cut section look gouged out, it had been out of the oven 30 seconds when I tried to cut it. When it cools, it is pretty fine sandwich bread!
And let the loaves fully cook before slicing.
And I tried Biscuits with fresh powder and soda yesterday, possible the worst I have ever made, the one I had was like eating hot flour...So I am officially done. It is Southern Biscuit Mix Formula L from now on!
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I'm not much on biscuits so I buy the frozen pucks to avoid the hastle. :2cents:
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I am not sure if you meant cool? But I believe that is the exact reason my that cut section look gouged out, it had been out of the oven 30 seconds when I tried to cut it. When it cools, it is pretty fine sandwich bread!
Yup, I meant cool.
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Have you ever tried any of the Red Lobster clone recipes? They usually require less handling with a loose dough that is spooned rather than rolled out. Gives them some nice peaks that brown nicely.
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I have, they are good, but if I want a biscuit, I want it so I can make a ham biscuit, or so I can put sausage, hash brown and egg in it. Can't do that with those!
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I have, they are good, but if I want a biscuit, I want it so I can make a ham biscuit, or so I can put sausage, hash brown and egg in it. Can't do that with those!
Easy, just spread it out with a wet hand to the size you like. I make mine large so I can toast them later.
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To me, they just don't hold up, a drop biscuit just does not have the consistency I am looking for!
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I did not want to leave anyone with the impression I cannot make Biscuits...I can, I just cant do it from scratch well.
(https://i.imgur.com/BgGmUz6h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B3lYryph.jpg)
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If those taste as good as they look I’d be happy to stick with them. If not homemade where would a person find them?
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Here in Mayberry, Wal-Mart is the only place I have found them...Don't forget to get the 1/2 gal. of Buttermilk...
Renwood Mills (http://www.renwoodmills.com/southern-biscuit/)
If not homemade where would a person find them?
(http://i.imgur.com/ofhCTe8h.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ofhCTe8)
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If you do get some, or anyone does, post some pictures in here...Would love to see if I am doing this right or wrong! Right, I am off to make some Ham Biscuits!
If those taste as good as they look I’d be happy to stick with them.
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You will get more practice when you do more biscuit tests when you do your future performance tests. :P
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Believe it or not, I will start using my own batter if we do more, just because they are so dense, they work well for a test like that. And then I have something for trap shooting too!
You will get more practice when you do more biscuit tests when you do your future performance tests. :P
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Try this again. >:( When SWMBO asked if I wanted to have biscuits and gravy for dinner I jumped on it, after all this talk about the biscuit quest.
[ Invalid Attachment ] The were very yummy and if I could just get the stupid pictures to come out right, I had one of the biscuit desert with strawberry/rhubarb jam.
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I hate Wal Mart but if they have them in Manhattan, KS. I will find it and make them, Can't think of a worse weekend to go looking in a store I don't know for something to try. Those look like they are worth it though. Photos either way.
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They are usually where the flour is, but it is kind of strange here, they put the stuff where the premixed stuff is. So if you dont see right by the flour, don't give up! If you like biscuits, they are worth it!
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I'm in, if they have them I will find them.
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For kicks & giggles I checked the Amazing online retailer and they will sell us a bag for $13.95. :pig:
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It's about $3.50 here for a bag!
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Well dang. I can say we searched everywhere and asked 2 employees, not here. I did though have a friend order me 2 on a mail thing (jet.com). $7.49 for a 7 oz. package. I plan on buying the buttermilk fresh though.
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Had a guy at werk a couple weeks ago ask if I smoked anything that weekend. Biscuits on Sunday. "You smoked biscuits"? On Sunday I replied. Saturday was cheese day. "You smoked cheese"?
He's looking...
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I hope it is 7lbs. 7oz will do about 4 biscuits...If it really is 7oz, send me your address and I will send you a bag myself!
I did though have a friend order me 2 on a mail thing (jet.com). $7.49 for a 7 oz. package.
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No fork split and gravy over the biscuit? And your wife appears to appreciate the sausage part of the sausage gravy more then most, you have to like that!
...When SWMBO asked if I wanted to have biscuits and gravy for dinner I jumped on it...
(https://pelletfan.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1046.0;attach=3710;image)
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Yes, I fork split after the picture. She only used about 2/3 of the Jimmy Dean sausage and it's not her that appreciates all that sausage. Trying to decide if I liked the biscuits better with gravy, homemade rhubarb/strawberry jam or slathered in butter better. :rotf:
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Bentley, that Formula L looks similar in composition to Bisquick; is it better?
Yes, I fork split after the picture. She only used about 2/3 of the Jimmy Dean sausage and it's not her that appreciates all that sausage. Trying to decide if I liked the biscuits better with gravy, homemade rhubarb/strawberry jam or slathered in butter better. :rotf:
The answer, of course, is yes...... :lick: Sorghum mixed with butter, apple butter, grape jelly....... :lick:
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Nothing like it at all. Like bisquick for dumplings and pancakes, no good for biscuits!
Bentley, that Formula L looks similar in composition to Bisquick; is it better?
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I am a fan of Popeyes biscuits. I can actually eat 6 or so just on the ride home :cool:
I was listening to an older Alton Brown Podcast (browncast) and he talks about his grandmothers biscuits and how great they were. He watched her 100 times even as a trained professional and struggled. He finally realized it had to do with the room and the equipment. The bowls the roller and just about everything. The humidity on that day. Of course Popeye's always taste the same all the time but I am sure there are some chemicals in that stuff that I couldn't pronounce with a gun to my head!
Good luck and when you figure it out share with us because I want good biscuits too!
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I am a fan of Popeyes biscuits
Ditto, heffneil
fried chicken-spicy
& biscuits
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Never gonna happen...I am sure in a few months I will try again, but something will have to happen where the component I am missing falls into place for me to ever get scratch correct!
Good luck and when you figure it out share with us because I want good biscuits too!
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I am a fan of Popeyes biscuits
Ditto, heffneil
fried chicken-spicy
& biscuits
That would exactly be my last meal! The spicy fried (Dark Only) and Biscuits! If you can get fresh fries that would be good but their fries are normally xxxx.
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Don't forget the large red beans and rice! Yummy and they keep the sheets jumping all night. :cool: I do miss their onion rings.
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I don't know if it is "ok" to post links to other sites but this is from a book I bought and serious eats I trust with just about everything. I haven't tried this but if anyone has time and has good results please let us know!
http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/09/popeyes-style-buttermilk-biscuits-from-fried-true.html
Neil
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Those biscuits on the plate are Popeye's? If you all like them, you would probably love mine, as that is how mine at least look. To me, those are not good looking biscuits, but taste cannot be judged from a photo!
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Those biscuits on the plate are Popeye's? If you all like them, you would probably love mine, as that is how mine at least look. To me, those are not good looking biscuits, but taste cannot be judged from a photo!
Those look like the biscuits that I also make. Bentley it seems your looking for something that's lighter, taller and flakier, correct? I've had those served at restaurants but not sure how they make them. Maybe this will help" https://www.today.com/food/mmm-biscuits-southern-chefs-spill-secrets-fluffy-flaky-perfect-diy-1D80117495
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Those biscuits on the plate are Popeye's? If you all like them, you would probably love mine, as that is how mine at least look. To me, those are not good looking biscuits, but taste cannot be judged from a photo!
Those look like the biscuits that I also make. Bentley it seems your looking for something that's lighter, taller and flakier, correct? I've had those served at restaurants but not sure how they make them. Maybe this will help" https://www.today.com/food/mmm-biscuits-southern-chefs-spill-secrets-fluffy-flaky-perfect-diy-1D80117495
White Lily flour, buttermilk, tupelo honey and cat head biscuits, sure does sound southern. I am surprised they didn't use leaf lard. :)
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Got the Southern mix today through Amazon. $16.50 Came from Connoisseur Market, Lexington Kentucky.
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Dude, I told you to just let me send you a bag!
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Bentley, you are quite the guy,
I plan on leaning on you and others on my "meat experiment ", I didn't want to wear out my welcome just yet.
I appreciate your generosity and I might take you up on it in the future.
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Another source for the Southern Biscuit mix is Food Lion-$ 3.29 a bag here in Midlothian
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Thank you so much for that info...It is the best mix of anything I have ever had!