Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Food Related => Topic started by: West Allis BBQ Man on September 14, 2017, 12:10:14 PM
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I have been reading and watching videos on the hot and fast method of cooking brisket. Last night I did two for my last day at my current job. One was a silent auction winner and the other we are going to eat at noon as my final BBQ for IT. I started them out at 180 for 6 hours and then 250 for 6. With an hour left at 250 they were both ready for the pan. Then I jumped the temp to 300. Total cook time, about 13 hours.
Thoughts about just cooking it at 180 for 2 hours then 300 until done. No wrap.
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Doesn't Mixon do them in about 4hours and then FTC them for 4 hours? For "hot and fast" yours seems like a very long cook.
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I thinking about doing my next brisket hot and fast. These two were the low and slow method...
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Oooops! ...... I did a packer about 3 weeks ago just as you described. ..... 2 hours smoke and then up the heat, no pan or foil. ..... Was fine!
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I do not think there is a great difference in quality between hot and slow. But, having said that, the only time I cook either outside of a Competition is for family or a gathering, and they can usually be done well in advance. Then I will usually just put it on the night before when I go to bed at 200°, wake up, turn pit to 350° and finish with pan, liquid and foil! If I just want them done same day, usually 6 hours at 350° will do it with no loss in quality!.
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The last several I've done I cook straight through at 275, which is probably 290 to 300 at the grate level. You get a nice crust that softens considerably during the rest. I wish I hadn't messed around with all the wrapping when I started cooking them a long time ago. It's easier, and I like it better.
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I'd like to try hot and fast. Although low and slow has worked for me, the lure of having the beef done in six hours is too tempting to resist, especially when inviting friends over.
So, no wrapping with liquid or anything? Just go to I.T. and let it rest?
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I'd like to try hot and fast. Although low and slow has worked for me, the lure of having the beef done in six hours is too tempting to resist, especially when inviting friends over.
So, no wrapping with liquid or anything? Just go to I.T. and let it rest?
The ones I've done I just go straight through until it probes tender. For years, I was so worried about overcooking that I think I was slightly undercooking most of them. Ive had about four really good ones in a row, which is a record for me. I've been cooking them slightly longer than I used to. Probe tender, sit out for 20 minutes, then wrap in foil or paper. When the IT is down to 150 or so, I slice into to see how it looks.
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I still pan, liquid and foil when the bark starts to get nasty, usually about 4 hours. But I want the brisket Jello too!
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Thanks gents - I'm looking forward to my next cook! ;)
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So, I have been avoiding doing briskets because I don't want the pit on while I sleep. Cue the game-changer. Hot and Fast!!!! :o
So, 275F on the pit until the probe/instaread therm gets to 198-200. Then an hour or so of rest. Is this correct? And the total amount of time is ~6-7 hours.
If the answer is yes, brisket is on the menu this coming football Sunday!
Eagerly awaiting your responses..... :clap:
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So, I have been avoiding doing briskets because I don't want the pit on while I sleep. Cue the game-changer. Hot and Fast!!!! :o
So, 275F on the pit until the probe/instaread therm gets to 198-200. Then an hour or so of rest. Is this correct? And the total amount of time is ~6-7 hours.
If the answer is yes, brisket is on the menu this coming football Sunday!
Eagerly awaiting your responses..... :clap:
I try to resist looking at temp, and just use the thermapen to feel it without looking. Just seem to get it right more that way. I do peek occasionally and if you are cooking hotter its normally upwards of 210 internal when it's probing right. Time depends on how big your brisket is, but you are probably in the ballpark. I did a little 10 pounder a couple weeks ago, and it was done in about 5 hours.
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I assume when you say you use the thermapen to feel it without looking, you are using a probe inserted in the brisket that reads remotely?
And what temp are you going for, 195 or 198, or 200 or ...., or just the feel of the probe going into the meat like a hot knife through butter?
not sure I will find anything bigger than a 7-10# flat if I go to Costco or Bj's. I will need to go to RD for something bigger. But a 10# brisket in 5 hours
sounds like a winner. Did you foil/foilpan at 160, or leave it naked until the end. Sorry for the questions. Haven't done many briskets.
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Like FMT said, maybe a small one....But I do not see many Briskets being done at 6 hours at 275°! There is no magic IT when a brisket is done, it will be in the ballpark when it gets around 200°...But you need to get away from thinking it is done and needs to be rested at X Internal Temperature.
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I don't bother measuring grate temp much anymore. I'm guessing that 5 hour one was closer to 300 at the grate, and it was also in a convection cabinet that seems to cook everything way faster.
I did one in the pellet cooker about a month ago. Forget the size but fairly small. Pretty sure that one was about 7 hours with the set temp at 275. Again, probably closer to 300 on the grate.
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I was always scared I would dry it out going hot & fast but reading this thread has me wanting to give it a try.
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thanks for the info guys, I will update this thread later this weekend with my cook/adventure :D
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Hot-n-Fast is always worth a try, I've been using it this competition season on our pork butts and it's working pretty good.
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I was always scared I would dry it out going hot & fast but reading this thread has me wanting to give it a try.
It's kind of the opposite in my opinion. It's easier to dry out low and slow, but there is a sweet spot somewhere between fast/slow and tender/tough. BBQ is basically purposely overcooking meat that is then saved by fat and collagen. Any meat fiber that is cooked to 200 degrees or so is going to be dry. Then the magic of collagen makes the meat itself seem moist even though it's just super tender not actually moist.
In the case of a brisket flat (which is what most people including me have trouble with), there is hardly any fat to render off. So the faster that you can cook that meat to tender, the more moisture it will retain. The trade-off when you cook it too fast though is sort of a roasty tasting brisket. Not enough smoke, and a quick cook. Also, during a high temp cook, sometimes I end up with a rubbery point. The flat may be perfect because it doesn't need to melt as much fat, but the point hasn't had enough time to cook properly.
When I cook hotter I typically need to cut off the point and let it go longer to make it melt in your mouth like a low and slow cook. If I wanted the best of both worlds I would cook a fast flat, and a slow point.
This picture is of last week's 5 hour choice brisket. This was literally just sliced in half right down the middle of the flat. I didn't press on it, brush on the juices, or in any other way modify it. As you can see, it was extremely juicy for an averagely marbled brisket. It also was decidedly roasty. I cooked it in my insulated cabinet, and am still working on how much wood to use. Not enough wood here, and probably a little quick. The point probed soft the same time as the flat, but was still pretty chewy. Just too quick for all that point fat to do its thing.
(https://i.imgur.com/2e1zXVNl.png)
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The one time I tried doing a brisket, hot and fast... I did it at like 275F from start to finish. I forget how long it too, but memory seems to tell me it was only about 8 hours or so, but honestly don't really remember.
What I didn't like... was the bark never really formed. It seemed to me , like the moisture came to the surface quicker, and the outer layer never really dried out much, to the point where good bark never really formed. The meat was just as moist as any other brisket I had cooked, but I felt it lacked flavor of a more traditional 225F style cook...
Now, could see a hybrid approach working better( more to my liking ), say 225F over night, then crank it up in the morning... but I haven't actually tried that yet.
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FMT,
What is this insulated cabinet you're talking about. I know you've mentioned it in other posts. Got any pictures? Would love to see what you're doing.
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FMT,
What is this insulated cabinet you're talking about. I know you've mentioned it in other posts. Got any pictures? Would love to see what you're doing.
I'll send you a PM. I thought the cook related info above could be used in any application, but I'll keep the non-pellet pit talk off the general board.
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This has been a very helpful post, and has opened my eyes to new potential. Thanks for the discussion :clap:
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The one time I tried doing a brisket, hot and fast... I did it at like 275F from start to finish. I forget how long it too, but memory seems to tell me it was only about 8 hours or so, but honestly don't really remember.
What I didn't like... was the bark never really formed. It seemed to me , like the moisture came to the surface quicker, and the outer layer never really dried out much, to the point where good bark never really formed. The meat was just as moist as any other brisket I had cooked, but I felt it lacked flavor of a more traditional 225F style cook...
Now, could see a hybrid approach working better( more to my liking ), say 225F over night, then crank it up in the morning... but I haven't actually tried that yet.
Not sure the difference there. Must be something in the process. The bark on mine cooked like this is somewhere between apple crisp crust and course sandpaper. Very crunchy right off the pit, but softens considerably during the rest.
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The one time I tried doing a brisket, hot and fast... I did it at like 275F from start to finish. I forget how long it too, but memory seems to tell me it was only about 8 hours or so, but honestly don't really remember.
What I didn't like... was the bark never really formed. It seemed to me , like the moisture came to the surface quicker, and the outer layer never really dried out much, to the point where good bark never really formed. The meat was just as moist as any other brisket I had cooked, but I felt it lacked flavor of a more traditional 225F style cook...
Now, could see a hybrid approach working better( more to my liking ), say 225F over night, then crank it up in the morning... but I haven't actually tried that yet.
Not sure the difference there. Must be something in the process. The bark on mine cooked like this is somewhere between apple crisp crust and course sandpaper. Very crunchy right off the pit, but softens considerably during the rest.
That's interesting... I may have to give it another try sometime. Mine was done in the Fast Eddy PG500, not sure if that would make any difference... but at 225F, even up toward 250F, I haven't ever had any issues getting good bark in it. Now I really wonder what might have caused the issue I had observed at the higher temperatures.
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I was always scared I would dry it out going hot & fast but reading this thread has me wanting to give it a try.
It's kind of the opposite in my opinion. It's easier to dry out low and slow, but there is a sweet spot somewhere between fast/slow and tender/tough. BBQ is basically purposely overcooking meat that is then saved by fat and collagen. Any meat fiber that is cooked to 200 degrees or so is going to be dry. Then the magic of collagen makes the meat itself seem moist even though it's just super tender not actually moist.
In the case of a brisket flat (which is what most people including me have trouble with), there is hardly any fat to render off. So the faster that you can cook that meat to tender, the more moisture it will retain. The trade-off when you cook it too fast though is sort of a roasty tasting brisket. Not enough smoke, and a quick cook. Also, during a high temp cook, sometimes I end up with a rubbery point. The flat may be perfect because it doesn't need to melt as much fat, but the point hasn't had enough time to cook properly.
When I cook hotter I typically need to cut off the point and let it go longer to make it melt in your mouth like a low and slow cook. If I wanted the best of both worlds I would cook a fast flat, and a slow point.
This picture is of last week's 5 hour choice brisket. This was literally just sliced in half right down the middle of the flat. I didn't press on it, brush on the juices, or in any other way modify it. As you can see, it was extremely juicy for an averagely marbled brisket. It also was decidedly roasty. I cooked it in my insulated cabinet, and am still working on how much wood to use. Not enough wood here, and probably a little quick. The point probed soft the same time as the flat, but was still pretty chewy. Just too quick for all that point fat to do its thing.
(https://i.imgur.com/2e1zXVNl.png)
Thanks for the info, I have a brisket point in the freezer, I just might try this method when I cook it.
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Lots of very good info here. I am a total convert to HnF vs LnS. I just cooked two pork shoulders at 275°, straight through and it took right at 9 hours to probe tender.
(https://i.imgur.com/GpuyDhbl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y8jvlgrl.jpg)
That was done with no pre-smoke at low temps, just 275° until they probed tender. One was 12# and one was 10#, so they were pretty big. The only reason I have a thermometer in there is so I know when I should start probing for doneness. I usually start checking around 185° to 190°.
I've done brisket the same way, straight through at 275°. Works great. Food gets cooked before it has a chance to dry out. I don't wrap, pan, spritz or any of that. Best advice I got and can give is don't rely on the IT to tell you when it's done. When the probe goes through with virtually no resistance, it's done. If it's still fighting you, keep goin'.