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[Quadman750]

I was always scared I would dry it out going hot & fast but reading this thread has me wanting to give it a try.

[Richdel]

thanks for the info guys, I will update this thread later this weekend with my cook/adventure

[riverrat49]

Hot-n-Fast is always worth a try, I've been using it this competition season on our pork butts and it's working pretty good.

[Free Mr. Tony]

I was always scared I would dry it out going hot & fast but reading this thread has me wanting to give it a try.

It's kind of the opposite in my opinion. It's easier to dry out low and slow, but there is a sweet spot somewhere between fast/slow and tender/tough. BBQ is basically purposely overcooking meat that is then saved by fat and collagen. Any meat fiber that is cooked to 200 degrees or so is going to be dry. Then the magic of collagen makes the meat itself seem moist even though it's just super tender not actually moist.

In the case of a brisket flat (which is what most people including me have trouble with), there is hardly any fat to render off. So the faster that you can cook that meat to tender, the more moisture it will retain. The trade-off when you cook it too fast though is sort of a roasty tasting brisket. Not enough smoke, and a quick cook. Also, during a high temp cook, sometimes I end up with a rubbery point. The flat may be perfect because it doesn't need to melt as much fat, but the point hasn't had enough time to cook properly.

When I cook hotter I typically need to cut off the point and let it go longer to make it melt in your mouth like a low and slow cook.  If I wanted the best of both worlds I would cook a fast flat, and a slow point.

This picture is of last week's 5 hour choice brisket. This was literally just sliced in half right down the middle of the flat. I didn't press on it, brush on the juices, or in any other way modify it. As you can see, it was extremely juicy for an averagely marbled brisket. It also was decidedly roasty. I cooked it in my insulated cabinet, and am still working on how much wood to use. Not enough wood here, and probably a little quick. The point probed soft the same time as the flat, but was still pretty chewy. Just too quick for all that point fat to do its thing.

[LowSlowJoe]

The one time I tried doing a brisket, hot and fast... I did it at like 275F from start to finish.  I forget how long it too, but memory seems to tell me it was only about 8 hours or so, but honestly don't really remember.

   What I didn't like... was the bark never really formed.   It seemed to me , like the moisture came to the surface quicker, and the outer layer never really dried out much, to the point where good bark never really formed.  The meat was just as moist as any other brisket I had cooked, but I felt it lacked flavor of a more traditional 225F style cook...

   Now, could see a hybrid approach working better( more to my liking ), say 225F over night, then crank it up in the morning...  but I haven't actually tried that yet.

[Queball]

FMT,

What is this insulated cabinet you're talking about. I know you've mentioned it in other posts. Got any pictures? Would love to see what you're doing.

[Free Mr. Tony]

FMT,

What is this insulated cabinet you're talking about. I know you've mentioned it in other posts. Got any pictures? Would love to see what you're doing.

I'll send you a PM. I thought the cook related info above could be used in any application, but I'll keep the non-pellet pit talk off the general board.

[pz]

This has been a very helpful post, and has opened my eyes to new potential.  Thanks for the discussion 

[Free Mr. Tony]

The one time I tried doing a brisket, hot and fast... I did it at like 275F from start to finish.  I forget how long it too, but memory seems to tell me it was only about 8 hours or so, but honestly don't really remember.

   What I didn't like... was the bark never really formed.   It seemed to me , like the moisture came to the surface quicker, and the outer layer never really dried out much, to the point where good bark never really formed.  The meat was just as moist as any other brisket I had cooked, but I felt it lacked flavor of a more traditional 225F style cook...

   Now, could see a hybrid approach working better( more to my liking ), say 225F over night, then crank it up in the morning...  but I haven't actually tried that yet.

Not sure the difference there. Must be something in the process. The bark on mine cooked like this is somewhere between apple crisp crust and course sandpaper. Very crunchy right off the pit, but softens considerably during the rest.

[LowSlowJoe]

The one time I tried doing a brisket, hot and fast... I did it at like 275F from start to finish.  I forget how long it too, but memory seems to tell me it was only about 8 hours or so, but honestly don't really remember.

   What I didn't like... was the bark never really formed.   It seemed to me , like the moisture came to the surface quicker, and the outer layer never really dried out much, to the point where good bark never really formed.  The meat was just as moist as any other brisket I had cooked, but I felt it lacked flavor of a more traditional 225F style cook...

   Now, could see a hybrid approach working better( more to my liking ), say 225F over night, then crank it up in the morning...  but I haven't actually tried that yet.

Not sure the difference there. Must be something in the process. The bark on mine cooked like this is somewhere between apple crisp crust and course sandpaper. Very crunchy right off the pit, but softens considerably during the rest.

That's interesting... I may have to give it another try sometime.  Mine was done in the Fast Eddy PG500, not sure if that would make any difference... but at 225F, even up toward 250F, I haven't ever had any issues getting good bark in it.  Now I really wonder what might have caused the issue I had observed at the higher temperatures.

[Quadman750]

I was always scared I would dry it out going hot & fast but reading this thread has me wanting to give it a try.

It's kind of the opposite in my opinion. It's easier to dry out low and slow, but there is a sweet spot somewhere between fast/slow and tender/tough. BBQ is basically purposely overcooking meat that is then saved by fat and collagen. Any meat fiber that is cooked to 200 degrees or so is going to be dry. Then the magic of collagen makes the meat itself seem moist even though it's just super tender not actually moist.

In the case of a brisket flat (which is what most people including me have trouble with), there is hardly any fat to render off. So the faster that you can cook that meat to tender, the more moisture it will retain. The trade-off when you cook it too fast though is sort of a roasty tasting brisket. Not enough smoke, and a quick cook. Also, during a high temp cook, sometimes I end up with a rubbery point. The flat may be perfect because it doesn't need to melt as much fat, but the point hasn't had enough time to cook properly.

When I cook hotter I typically need to cut off the point and let it go longer to make it melt in your mouth like a low and slow cook.  If I wanted the best of both worlds I would cook a fast flat, and a slow point.

This picture is of last week's 5 hour choice brisket. This was literally just sliced in half right down the middle of the flat. I didn't press on it, brush on the juices, or in any other way modify it. As you can see, it was extremely juicy for an averagely marbled brisket. It also was decidedly roasty. I cooked it in my insulated cabinet, and am still working on how much wood to use. Not enough wood here, and probably a little quick. The point probed soft the same time as the flat, but was still pretty chewy. Just too quick for all that point fat to do its thing.

Thanks for the info, I have a brisket point in the freezer, I just might try this method when I cook it.

[sleebus.jones]

Lots of very good info here.  I am a total convert to HnF vs LnS.  I just cooked two pork shoulders at 275°, straight through and it took right at 9 hours to probe tender.





That was done with no pre-smoke at low temps, just 275° until they probed tender. One was 12# and one was 10#, so they were pretty big.  The only reason I have a thermometer in there is so I know when I should start probing for doneness.  I usually start checking around 185° to 190°.

I've done brisket the same way, straight through at 275°.  Works great.  Food gets cooked before it has a chance to dry out.  I don't wrap, pan, spritz or any of that.  Best advice I got and can give is don't rely on the IT to tell you when it's done.  When the probe goes through with virtually no resistance, it's done.  If it's still fighting you, keep goin'.