Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Non food Related => Topic started by: Canadian John on January 04, 2021, 12:25:22 PM
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We have a lot of cast iron cookware and enjoy using and caring for it. However, there is one dutch oven that we have a hard time maintaining the seasoning on. The reason is, from infancy the seasoning
never got properly developed due to liquids and at times acidic foods being cooked in it. I came across cast iron seasoning pucks in my quest for the ultimate seasoning. The ingredients were somewhat
guarded and they were cost prohibitive so I never tried them.. Then one day I came across a make your own cast iron seasoning puck. I noted "beeswax" as an ingredient. Very interesting! I have pure beeswax
so I made a very small batch. Just can't believe how well it works. One or two applications results in an amazingly durable coating that has the properties of well seasoned cast iron. So what is it?
1 PART BEESWAX and 2 PARTS COOKING OIL (a high smoke point oil). The 1:2 ratio is borderline semi solid. Just under 2 results in a slightly more solid puck. The bees wax (melts ~ 146º) and oil needs to be
stirred together and poured into a tapered mold for release purposes, then let cool to solidify.
Points of interest.
Beeswax. Must be pure beeswax. There is beeswax on the market that isn't pure. Don't use it. Beeswax won't harm you.
The puck may be stored on the counter as it's a solid. just keep it away from heat. Not sure? Store in the refrigerator.
Use sparingly. A little goes a long way. As with oil. once applied, wipe off as much as you can for an ultra thin layer.
Seasoning. Done the same way as with oil. Just don't try to season over flaking seasoning or rust.
Keep the seasoning temperature below the smoke point of the oil in the puck. Too high a seasoning temperature will burn the oil resulting in flaking. Two to three seasonings will result in a good seasoning
start.
Use the puck to reseason the CI after using. Same as with oil.
The puck will leave an almost clear finish on the cast iron to the point it appears that nothing is there.
The "puck" as I call it could have other names. I went with puck as it was the original.
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Nice tip. Thanks for sharing.
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Thanks John. I have some cosmetic grade beeswax I used to make a balm for my wife - I wonder if that will work?: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3U0FW4
What type of oil are you using for this? Do you just store it in a jar?
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Thanks for posting this. I also have a lot of cast iron. I've become a firm believer in using flaxseed oil for seasoning. Years ago I came across a blog by Sheryl Canter, she wrote: Vegetable oils and shortening leave cast iron soft and prone to scratching and wear and tear, but flaxseed oil — which is essentially the food-grade equivalent of linseed oil, the drying oil that painters and woodworkers use to create a tough, protective layer on their work — makes cast iron surfaces smooth, hard, and even. I have found that to be true. I am curious to see how it will work mixed with the beeswax.
I once was given a pan that was initially seasoned with PAM by the person who made it. I couldn't get the seasoning right at all and decided to start from scratch by placing the pan in the oven while it was self cleaning to get rid of the old seasoning. I then had a clean surface to begin re-seasoning. I applied at least six coatings of the flaxseed oil and ended up with a great cooking surface.
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I may have to try to find some bees wax and mix something up. I bought a Crisbie Roll on a few years ago and have used it on my blackstone griddles and a carbon steel pan.
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What type of oil are you using for this?
The Crisbee Puck is beeswax, soybean and palm oils.
The Crisbee Cream is beeswax and sunflower oil.
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Thanks John. I have some cosmetic grade beeswax I used to make a balm for my wife - I wonder if that will work?: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3U0FW4
What type of oil are you using for this? Do you just store it in a jar?
BEESWAX: That looks good to me. I would use it for sure.
OIL: I have used, grapeseed and avocado, canola and avocado, both 50/50 and canola 100%. Any oil with a high smoke point.
STORAGE: It sits in a small dish on my counter top. I have a small tapered stainless steel container I use to melt the beeswax and mix into the oils. That (the taper) made removing the "puck" easy to do,
otherwise the product will remain stuck in the mold.
I found placing the puck in the freezer for ~ 30 min helped to release it from the stainless mold... Storing in a glass jar would work with a caveat. That being, a shallow wide mouth jar to access the product.
You don't need much! My pucks are ~ 2 fluid OZ in size, and last for months. That isn't much beeswax/oil. To make it easy, go 1oz beeswax and 2oz or a bit less oil(s) = one 3oz puck.
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My brother-in-law gave us this batch of cast iron pans yesterday. They may need a little seasoning! Any ideas on how to knock some rust off?
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Maybe some Coca Cola
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Electrolysis. It is actually a really simple process. I removed rust from a really rusty grill grate using electrolysis and all the rust was gone with minimal (almost no) elbow grease.
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Electrolysis. It is actually a really simple process. I removed rust from a really rusty grill grate using electrolysis and all the rust was gone with minimal (almost no) elbow grease.
I've seen that about electrolysis and sounds like it works well.
Another popular method seems to scrubbing with steel wool. Here is what Lodge recommends.
https://www.lodgecastiron.com/cleaning-and-care/cast-iron/restore-and-season-rusty-cast-iron
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8jrjNZng0A
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you could see if anyone does soda blasting in your area. Even glass beading would work. An automotive machine shop would probably do glass beading. Glass or soda is usually used on aluminum so it really shouldn't hurt the finish. I have sandblasted some at my home a long time ago, then scrubbed well and seasoned.
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I agree with Slaga, use Electrolysis. It's easy—much like a junior high science experiment.
Instructions (https://www.instructables.com/Electrolytic-Rust-Removal-aka-Magic/)
Find a seventh grader to "help" (watch) and teach them something DIY practical.
EDIT: OH! Do it outdoors. The Electrolysis makes copious amounts of Hydrogen gas. A spark in an enclosed area will set it off like the Hindenburg.
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Looks like a trip to Menards in the near future! I am curious to see how well the electrolysis works. I was excited when I saw the bean pot, I have been wanting one of those for a while. The deep frying pan will also be nice. I figure the small pans can be used to experiment on.
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There is a lot of info out there on removing rust from cast iron. Most of it good.. I would opt for electrolysis as a first choice.. However, before starting any sort of restoration, do a thorough examination of each
item checking for cracks. They may not be hidden by rust and appear later. And, warpage. It is not repairable. Simply place the item on a truly flat surface and see if it can be rocked back and forth indicating a
curved/warped bottom..This makes the cookware unsuitable for cooking certain items as it will cause them to run to the center.
That's a nice find. Shouldn't be too hard to bring back to life.. It would be interesting to see how the restoration goes.
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Again it all depends on how far you want to go. But a bit of warping could easily be trued up by a machine shop. I guess it all depends on if you are concerned about ruining the value of an antique or if it is something you just want to use. either way I am sure that if what you have in the pictures is old cast iron, it is probably far better quality than what you will buy at Wally World today. So more than likely be worth the time and maybe a few bucks to get into the shape you want it to cook with, at least that would be how I would see it.
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My brother-in-law dropped off a couple more pans. The muffin pan should be nice once we get it cleaned up.
I have not made it to the store yet for the science fair supplies, but my wife got a head start by scrubbing a few pans with steel wool and baking soda. She then painted on navel jelly rust dissolver and rinsed. That got the initial layers off. The oven needed to be cleaned anyway, so we put some pans in there to bake. We'll see in a few hours how it turns out.
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Just a quick update, I hope to post some pictures later. Just because of the size, the number of pieces we have, and the time the electrolysis would take, we opted to try other methods first.
After doing some preliminary scraping and knocking off a few chunks of the initial rust, we put the pans in the oven and set it to self clean. It helped a little, but probably wasn't worth the time and energy. Dawn and baking powder make a pretty good cleaning combination. Soaking in white vinegar and water also helped to a certain degree. The Navel Jelly really cut through the rust, but left a residue that was hard to take off. We repeated those steps in various orders and the pieces were better, but we couldn't get them looking the way we wanted.
At that point I was ready to head to Menards and begin the science experiment. However, my wife did some digging on the internet and saw a video demonstration on YouTube for some stuff called Evapo-Rust. It is the absolutely great. I wish we had found it a week earlier. It is a liquid and is about $15 online for a gallon. You can get it at Ace Hardware but it was a few bucks more. It's nontoxic, can be reused, and does a much nicer job than the Navel Jelly. All you need to do is submerge the pan for a relatively short period of time (from just a few minutes to overnight). Rinse and a little light scrubbing; the results are amazing.
It is almost like Christmas. The rust was so bad we could not make out too many markings. As we started cleaning the brand names begin to appear. It has been an education looking some of them up to see where and when they were made. I don't know a lot about the history of cast iron, I have always just had pans that I enjoyed cooking with. Now my curiosity is peaked.
We did get some bees wax pellets to mix with flax seed oil to season the pans with. Hope to start doing some of that this weekend.
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Great to hear. Looking forward to you finishing this project and seeing what you cook in all of those different styles of pans.
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Most interesting. That's a huge project you have undertaken. The results should prove to be well worth the effort..Properly cared for cast iron cookware can last last for generations. "The more it is used, the
better it gets".
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(https://ch3301files.storage.live.com/y4m7yQeWUrP7ZMndJrMD-rM7nMm56x3eihbEqWr_FgNQ9rFaHupOH6VdXekMfB9B5-BLlItgtIpnfVY3apn0A9i1yxfeZ2ch4o0zoig90J7x04nmjjiV5qFA6KR98aGri99fIsoe1w0Ufxyn-GZT2tE3-DVfzTZNbvvghk6xYLf8pFDcOLded4-s2VFYD0i6igx?width=47&height=47&cropmode=none)
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Cleaned with Navel Jelly
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Cleaned with Evapo-Rust
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Wow, they look like new with that Evapo-rust. Great find!!!
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So now the seasoning begins?
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A tip for washing bare cast iron. After rust, crud and old seasoning removal, prepare for seasoning by scrubbing with fine steel wool and dish soap, works great. A washing soda wash is the icing on the cake
as a second clean. Always RINSE WITH COLD WATER and dry immediately to prevent flash rust. The bare metal will flash rust the instant it is dried if it was rinsed in hot water no matter how fast you are
or how dry the towel is.
Cast iron needs to be clean and dry for a good seasoning bond, just like paint. As well the layers of seasoning must be as thin as possible..
The cookware has come a long way from the original pics.
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A washing soda wash is the icing on the cake as a second clean. Always RINSE WITH COLD WATER and dry immediately to prevent flash rust. The bare metal will flash rust the instant it is dried if it was rinsed in hot water no matter how fast you are or how dry the towel is.
So that's where I've gone wrong. Thanks for the tip.
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Thanks for the tip on Evapo-Rust, JD! We have some things that were my FIL's and I'm the lucky fella who gets to clean them. Of course, I'm not going to tell Bonnie how I did it and I'll leave the seasoning to her. Looks like Tractor Supply has some in stock.
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Never heard of Evapo rust. Just watched a little video on their site. I think I have some old cast iron around here. I may have to go find a gallon or 2. The video said it is reusable, as she just poured the stuff back into the quart bottle.
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I have some skillets that have a good bit of build up, not rust, on the outsides. burn on grease I would guess. I just keep using them because the insides are nice.
I do not have a self cleaning oven. I had read where people just toss them in the fire pit with the hot coals to burn it off. Any other ideas?
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There is no heat control using a fire pit resulting in a chance of damaging the cast iron; cracks and or warpage. The same sort of damage has been reported using self cleaning ovens.. Is it worth the risk?
For build up on the outside, a scraper should easily remove most of it. Then if you want to refine the job, a motor driven rotary wire brush can be used to finish it off.
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I have some skillets that have a good bit of build up, not rust, on the outsides. burn on grease I would guess. I just keep using them because the insides are nice.
I do not have a self cleaning oven. I had read where people just toss them in the fire pit with the hot coals to burn it off. Any other ideas?
I would agree with C. John. I didn't see a lot of benefit from using the self cleaning oven when it comes to rust. I tried it a few years ago and it worked OK, but that was more for baked on food stuff rather than rust. It didn't do much for the rust.
I have been having trouble posting pictures from my phone. Sorry for the previous double image. When the posting came out that way, I figured two pictures were better than none, which is what had been happening for several unsuccessful and frustrating attempts.
Getting ready to start the seasoning process with the first batch of pans. I will warm them in the oven (200* for an hour) before applying the flaxseed oil. I plan to cover the pans with oil, and wipe them as clean as I can. I have a new to me oven and I am not sure how high it will go. The pans will bake at either 450*or 500* for an hour and then cool down for two hours before pulling them out. The goal is to do six coats total. The first three will be Flaxseed oil only for a base and the last 3 (or more) will be with the beeswax and flaxseed oil mixture for the finish.
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I used to do mine in the gas grill on the deck because I didn't like the smell.
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I used to do mine in the gas grill on the deck because I didn't like the smell.
When I get our stuff cleaned up I was thinking of seasoning them in my pellet grill for the same reason. I don't know if the wood smoke will affect the way the seasoning comes out. I doubt I'll get permission to get a little gasser, but it's worth a try since they were both Bonnie's dad's. Thankfully they are small. The Dutch ovens I have are so big I don't know what I would soak them in. It'd take five gallons or more of the Evapo-Rust for each of them.
Do y'all use a food grade flaxseed oil and if so where do you find it? I've seen some in the vitamin and supplement area of the grocery store but never in the cooking oil area.
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This may help.
The flaxseed oil must…
Be made of 100% flaxseed: There should be no other flavors, additives, and especially no oils to prevent oxidation among the listed ingredients. (You want the oxidation in this case!) The only exception here is
if the label includes the words “flaxseed particulate†or “lignans.†Those are still part of the flaxseed, so they’re fine and still count as pure flax oil.
Require refrigeration, because it’s an omega-3 supplement and goes rancid quickly. If you buy a bottle of flax oil that doesn’t need to be refrigerated, you bought the wrong thing.
Be organic, because “you don’t want to burn toxic chemicals into your cookware to leach out forever more,†Canter writes.
Be unfiltered, although filtered is also probably fine: Canter doesn’t specify if the oil should be filtered or unfiltered. I’ve heard of people using both, and it worked fine. The bottle she links to in her post is
unfiltered, so that’s what I went with as well.
Be expensive: Well, it doesn’t have to be expensive, per se, but if you’re buying the right thing, it probably will be. Think around $17 or $20 for a 16-ounce bottle.
Between it flaking off and the cost, I don't use it any more.. Some swear by it.
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That makes sense then. Thanks John!
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The first batch of pans are now finished with six layers of the base coating. For the most part I stuck with my original plan; warming the pans in the oven at 200*, applying the flaxseed oil and then wiping them clean with a cotton rag. Baked them at 500* for an hour and then left them to cool in the oven for another two hours before repeating the process. Each round the pans looked better and better. The Dutch Oven and deep frying pan turned out exceptionally nice.
I decided to wait and apply the beeswax finishing coats after the six base coats. I made the pucks with beeswax and flaxseed oil, a little under the 2:1 ratio as suggested in the original post. I used beeswax pellets and melted them in the microwave (at 20-30 second intervals), adding oil as they began to soften. I plan to apply the finishing coats by heating the pans on the stovetop rather than baking in the oven. Not sure how many coats I will do, guess I will play it by ear.
It seems like it has taken a long time to get to where I can start seasoning! Looking forward to seeing how they end up and also starting in on round two. The next batch of pans will include the muffin pan, the bean pot, lid, and another Dutch Oven.
I will post some pictures of the process after I get a coat or two of the beeswax mixture on the pans.
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The Evapo-Rust worked great on the smaller Dutch oven and lids. I used a wire wheel and my grinder and got most of the rust off of everything first. The gallon I got isn't enough for the bean pot though. I may have to do half with it on its side then rinse and turn it 180 degrees. The Dutch oven has some minor pitting, but I think it'll be fine to use as long as there is no rust in the bottom of the pits before seasoning.
The electrolysis video Slaga posted is definitely the way to got for the bigger Dutch ovens that were my dad's that he used by in cow camps when working cattle. My grandfather used them before my dad for the same thing.
I'll probably re-season everything the way they were done originally with good ol' lard.
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Good old lard if pure works well with the exception it will go rancid if the C I isn't used often. Heat and humidity accelerate it.... The old timers that used lard used their cast iron often, usually daily.
If you have removed the rust and crud and don't intend to cook with it, mineral oil is easy to apply, maintain and looks good. It is also cinch to clean if you deciede to season the piece later on.. Some of
the C I collectors use mineral oil on their show pieces they don't cook on.
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Good old lard if pure works well with the exception it will go rancid if the C I isn't used often. Heat and humidity accelerate it.... The old timers that used lard used their cast iron often, usually daily.
If you have removed the rust and crud and don't intend to cook with it, mineral oil is easy to apply, maintain and looks good. It is also cinch to clean if you deciede to season the piece later on.. Some of
the C I collectors use mineral oil on their show pieces they don't cook on.
I didn't know that about mineral oil. I ought to use that on the stuff of my dad's because they are all so big we'll probably never use them. We'd have to be cooking for lots of folks. I've never heard of anything going rancid after seasoning with lard, but as far as heat and humidity go that's two things we have no shortage of around here so that might be ruled out. Bonnie would have a fit if she caught me doing that anyway. Thanks Canadian John!
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You are welcome Brushpopper. A note on storing cast iron with lids. Prop the lid so there is a small gap allowing it to breath. A paint stick inserted under the lid works well. Just make sure it is long
enough so it doesn't fall down inside... Rice is another good one. Simply add ~ 1 to 2 cups inside to absorb moisture. It must be replaced occasionally. The air gap needs to be used in conjunction with the rice.
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To much work. I think I will stick with my aluminum and ceramic!
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To much work. I think I will stick with my aluminum and ceramic!
I agree, but the knowledge transfer going on in this thread is incredible information.
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I enjoy cooking with CI and a good project. I agree with you Lew. This has been an interesting thread and the information provided by Canadian John has been invaluable, as usual. :clap:
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The Evapo-Rust worked great on the smaller Dutch oven and lids. I used a wire wheel and my grinder and got most of the rust off of everything first. The gallon I got isn't enough for the bean pot though. I may have to do half with it on its side then rinse and turn it 180 degrees. The Dutch oven has some minor pitting, but I think it'll be fine to use as long as there is no rust in the bottom of the pits before seasoning.
Several of the pans I am working on have some pitting, but I don't think it will be a problem. We soaked our bean pot in the Evapo-Rust half on one side and then the other and it worked out fine.
The first batch is done. I tested one of the small pans by flipping eggs. They flipped higher than I thought and came down on the burner instead of the pan!! I guess it passed the test!
End of baking process:
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Beeswax and flaxseed pucks.
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Final result after seasoning 3x with the puck:
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That's a goldmine of cast iron cookware. Next you might consider building a rack to display that loveliness.
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It all looks beautiful JD!!!!
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Congrats to you and those who helped you (and the person that gave it to you). Great job!
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How hard was it to get the pucks out of the aluminum cupcake pan JD? I have a tub of the Blackstone seasoning that I use on my flat top that I plan on using but I want to make some pucks just for grins too. Might be good gifts for family members since we all have lots of cast iron. I don't know if Bonnie will let me use her smooth sided cupcake pans.
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Bonnie should approuve IF you foil the cupcake pans..No matter what you use, the walls should be tapered and the pucks cool for easy removal. COLD is better(freezer/refrigerator). You'll fight puck removal
otherwise. I would fill the cupcake pans ~ 1/2 to max 3/4 full as a little goes a long way.
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Will do John. Thanks! I'll post pics of everything when I'm done.
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How hard was it to get the pucks out of the aluminum cupcake pan JD? I have a tub of the Blackstone seasoning that I use on my flat top that I plan on using but I want to make some pucks just for grins too. Might be good gifts for family members since we all have lots of cast iron. I don't know if Bonnie will let me use her smooth sided cupcake pans.
I had some of the same questions you did. I ended up using an aluminum disposable muffin pan and it worked great. The pucks popped out easily.
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Good deal. Thanks!
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Round 2 is done! I think I will try a batch of pop-overs for a test run on the muffin pan. Maybe some pancakes on a few of the skillets. I was probably the most pleased with the bean pot.
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Pardon my ignorance with this question. Why do those pans look silver/grey in color? Most of the cast iron pans I have seen in my lifetime in my family or my wife's are black.
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That is from the flaxseed oil. It ends up with an almost acrylic or Teflon look to it. I think the more the pans are used they will end up with more of a traditional black finished look.
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My :2cents:. Cast iron in its pure state has a silvery hue to it... The "black" comes from oil and minute food particles that have been transformed into carbon that we know as seasoning. It builds up over time
- a very long time. This process can't be rushed. As the saying about cast iron goes, "the more you use it the better it gets" . New seasoning, no matter how well applied and cured, is delicate. The first few
cooks are the most critical in developing, not destroying the seasoning. One wrong cook, improper cleaning or improper use of utentistas will damage the developing seasoning in its early stages.. Once the
seasoning has developed (a thick black coating) then and only then can just about anything be cooked in it..
New seasoning is brownish. In time with use, it slowly turns color going darker and eventually black as it develops and builds. The developing seasoning is not uniform in its transition. Certain areas tend to
develop sooner than others.
Proper care is paramount. Clean after use w/o soaking for more than a few minutes then dry, heat, apply a THIN layer of cooking oil, or use a puck. Heat to barely smoking then wipe again to be sure of the
thinnest of coats, let cool + store in a dry place.
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John, I get what you are saying. How does the whole pan look black if you are only cooking in the interior of it? Is the seasoning primarily from the heat being applied to the entire oiled pan?
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I'll try + answer. The seasoning is further developed after the initial seasonings by applying a thin layer of oil to all surfaces of the cookware as described above. The cooking process develops this into more
seasoning. The food inside has an oil layer between it + the C I. IE: Oil, lard, butter etc is added to the skillet prior to frying an egg so the egg floats on it. The oil requirement to prevent food sticking reduces
as the more developed the seasoning becomes.
IE:Cooking an egg. If everything goes to plan, the egg will slip out and the pan then the pan simply wiped clean + stored. No worry about germs residing as heat from the next cook will deal with it. Stuck on
food is an other matter.
Heat/seasoning. There is initial seasoning that preps a bare pan, then on going. The thin layer of protective oil (all over) + the inner layer, in all cases is cured by heat. These are meant to be ultra thin layers.
Thick layers that don't develop, just like think paint, are common as people want to rush things. It' totally wrong. The outside of the thick layer seals the soft inside so it never has a chance to convert into
seasoning resulting in a soft coating.
Heat in all cases has to match the oils smoke point.. Too high a heat that is over the smoke point of the oil will burn it resulting in the seasoning flaking off - a common problem.
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I had mine to where they were almost not leaving any residue on the paper towel when I'd dry them after washing and was not having issues with flash rust after rinsing with cold water. I guess the humidity here was very low until Monday. Both lids and cooking pots had flash rust after my final wash on Monday. I borrowed my neighbors gasser and planned on seasoning them yesterday. It didn't work out. The two burners on the right are completely rusted out and the two on the left don't have heat deflectors anymore. The entire bottom of the cooking chamber is rusted out too. All I could get out of it was 265 degrees in the center of the grates after about 45 minutes on high, so I fired up my pellet grill and used it. I had flash rust again after warming everything at 200 but went ahead and wiped them down and cranked it to 425 because I wanted to get at least one coat on before the weather gets ugly.
It's been in the low 80s the last few days and by Monday it's not supposed to be above freezing for 24+ hours . A lot of y'all are used to that but we're not.
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Canadian John, do you have a rough guess as to how much solid beeswax pellets to use to get a half cup of melted liquid? Or can I measure it as a solid then melt it? And then I would add a cup of cooking oil to get the 1 part beeswax to two parts oil ratio, correct? I might make a bigger batch but I would like a starting point of how much wax I need. :help:
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No I can't. It will be slightly more than a cup due to the air spaces between the pellets.. Very much the same as trying to calculate how much wood there in a volume of wood pellets.
I would simply melt the wax to achieve the volume you want, then add the oil. Make sure it is well stirred prior to cooling. If for some reason you find the end product is too soft or too hard, a remelt and the
addition of either wax to make it harder or oil to soften will get what you want. Don't forget to stirr. For hot weather storage (Texas qualifies) you may consider storing the puck in the fridge. Bonnie should
approve, I hope. Hope this helps.
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It sure does. Thank you, Sir!