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Author Topic: First attempt at back bacon  (Read 4093 times)

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Michael_NW

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2018, 10:34:29 PM »

7 days in - time for an update.

I've been stirring the curing brine every day. Fridge temp holding steady at 34.4. No funky smells. No funky colors. All looks good.

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LowSlowJoe

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2018, 12:27:33 PM »

I'm a self proclaimed expert ( I just proclaimed myself as such )...

   I'll tell you from the start, there are many many sites with flat out garbage information about curing meats.  Even some sites with big name cooks and/or that enjoy some pretty high level of notoriety.   I will also tell you, that while I am a 'expert', I don't know everything, I only know enough to know when somethings just flat out wrong.

   First - Wet cure vs Dry cure -  Most people don't really understand the difference , even I don't fully get what strictly defines dry cured bacon or ham. I only know that true dry cured bacon is NOT what most people call dry cure.   Wet cure is pretty well defined, at least in my mind, but does have at least one area where the line between dry and wet is not very clear.  What most people describe as either wet or dry cured , is all about the use of liquid or NOT in the cure ingredients themselves, not in the process.    Where the USDA seems to see dry cured as something well beyond if liquid is uses in the cure mixture.   

    IMHO - dry-cured bacon , involves significant moisture reduction of the meat. Not just simply the lack of liquid ingredients in the cure itself.   I say this , because according to the USDA dry cured bacon has a shelf life without refrigeration of like 10 days when sliced and 3 weeks as a slab.  As far as I know, the only way you can get that kind of shelf life , is to have reduced the moisture content significantly...

    OK... So, I'm not a expert , don't take anything I say as 100% truth - but I have spent a lot of time trying to understand this stuff....


   The original topic is "First attempt at back bacon" -   I think this is commonly called Canadian Bacon by people in the USA... people in Canada might just call it... well who knows what they might call it.  Canadians have a product they call peameal bacon, which is similar , but as I understand it , peameal bacon typically isn't smoked.     

    Anyway, I personally haven't really done a wet brine , I do what can probably best be described as a dry brine...  That is, I don't use any liquid ingredients , but the curing process doesn't really reduces the moisture content enough to be truly significant in my eyes.   One of the reasons I don't do wet brine, or immersion curing, is because I find it messy, another reason is I find it wasteful of cure ingredients.   

    When you calculate how much salt, sugar, spices, and especially how much Nitrite is used, with wet brine ( immersion curing ), you have to determine the weight of the liquid used and the meat. Effectively all dry ingredients are diluted by the liquid, so you have to use more dry ingredients than you would if you didn't use any liquid.   

    When curing some meat using only dry ingredients, you only take into account the weight of the meat itself, and use just enough to give you the correct percentage by weight in relation to the weight of the meat itself, nothing more....

    Basic cure percentages are virtually the same , weather you do immersion curing , or 'dry'...   I think the best starting point is about 2% salt, 1.5% sugar, and 0.02% Nitrite ( 200 parts per million ).  Now I'm talking about cured ham, not bacon... technically speaking bacon should use slightly less(0.012%, or 120PPM), unless it's a true dry-cured bacon.

     0.02% Nitrite is achieved using 3.2 grams of Cure #1 per Kilogram of meat and liquid...   if no liquid as used, then it's just in relation to the meat alone.   Cure #1 is 1/16th Nitrite ( 0.625% ) and roughly 15/16th's sodium.   So, if you use a half gallon of water, which is about 4 pounds, and a 4 pound pork loin, you need to use about 11.6 grams of Cure #1 to do the immersion cure, and just 5.8 grams if you don't use liquid in your curing process. Ok, so cure doesn't cost that much, but you also have to double the amount of salt, sugar, and any spices that you'd use if you do that immersion cure.

     Bottom line for me, is I find using dry ingredients to be a much simpler process... less messy, the math is easier, and I've personally never had any negative results related to using only dry ingredients.  Effectively the only good reason I know of to use liquid, is if I wanted to obtain some flavor that I could only get in a liquid... ( like soaking in beer, or wine, etc... )


    How do you distribute the dry ingredients evenly??? it's not hard at all actually... Mix all your ingredients up together, weigh out the right amount for the hunk of meat your working with, put it all in a little shaker jar, shake the dry cure mixture out onto the hunk of meat, turn it occasionally, get it as even as you can. ( and it really isn't hard ).  After you've evenly coated the meat with your cure mixture, wrap it up in cellophane, and let it sit for a week or so ( depends on the thickness of the meat and the temperature of the fridge ).   

     If you use the right amount of salt, sugar, and nitrite, it's almost impossible to over cure... or to get too salty... 


Anyway, I am not really a expert... but I do play one on TV. :)

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Bentley

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2018, 03:08:51 PM »

And I think in times before refrigeration, the salting process was longer, I think roughly 2-4 weeks in the Fall after the slaughter, when the salt would inhibit any issues with temperature until Winter hit and temperatures were not a factor for bacterial growth.  Then came the smoking & curing process and that usually would last again, till temperatures came to a point where the meat would be eaten and also stored in the root cellar.

First - Wet cure vs Dry cure -  Most people don't really understand the difference...   

IMHO - dry-cured bacon , involves significant moisture reduction of the meat. Not just simply the lack of liquid ingredients in the cure itself.



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Michael_NW

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2018, 10:34:03 PM »

I'm a self proclaimed expert ( I just proclaimed myself as such )...

OK... So, I'm not a expert , don't take anything I say as 100% truth - but I have spent a lot of time trying to understand this stuff....

Thank you, LowSlowJoe. I can tell you've spent a good deal of time educating yourself and sorting through the information, trying to separate the good from the bad. And I especially appreciate you taking the time to write all this down for us. It will come in especially handy on my next batch of curing which will involve pork belly instead of pork loin.

As my first go around with curing I wanted to try a method that I felt I could understand. I'll learn from this experience and continue on. For those who know me, I am not considered a risk-taker, so something like curing meat is a big step, a big risk, for me. Every time I open the bucket to check and stir the meat I get nervous, but I am gaining confidence in the method. I'm anticipating good results.

I know dry curing for you is easier and less wasteful, and I can see that. I don't know why, probably a misconception on my part, but dry curing "felt" riskier and less certain - a reflection of my own nervousness with this first time. BUT, once I begin to tackle pork belly, I can experiment with smaller batches and I will be trying the dry cure method.

Thanks again.
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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2018, 01:29:59 PM »

I have been meaning to do some true dry curing of both belly and ham, but it is hard to find "green" ham.  And the seasons back here have not cooperated with "normal" seasons at all!  Maybe in the late falloff 2018 you will see ham and belly hanging from my garage...
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Michael_NW

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2018, 04:08:05 PM »

Maybe in the late falloff 2018 you will see ham and belly hanging from my garage...

From the inside of your garage, right?   :P
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Kristin Meredith

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2018, 04:40:04 PM »

One never knows with Bent :pig:
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BigDave83

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2018, 05:13:29 PM »



[/quote]

I know dry curing for you is easier and less wasteful, and I can see that. I don't know why, probably a misconception on my part, but dry curing "felt" riskier and less certain - a reflection of my own nervousness with this first time. BUT, once I begin to tackle pork belly, I can experiment with smaller batches and I will be trying the dry cure method.

Thanks again.
[/quote]

Wet cure to me is a brine cure, I like to do pork butts like that inject a good bit of it so it cures completely and I usually do 2 weeks then make like pulled pork and I have a pulled ham product. usually pepper and garlic powder for my rub.

 For Canadian/Back bacon I like to cut my loin in to pieces 6-8" long I weigh each and mix the cure mix for each piece, I use 1T Tenderquick and 1-1.5T dark brown sugar, I rub all of that onto and into the meat and put in a gallon ziploc bag. do that with each piece and into the fridge for 7 - 10 days then rinse and smoke to 140ish.

I have tried the brine curing for canadian bacon but prefer the dry method.
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LowSlowJoe

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2018, 09:58:57 PM »

By the way...  if you really want to communicate with some real experts...  there's a Facebook group known as... The Salt Cured Pig , they discus all manner of charcuterie, some very serious and knowledgeable people in that group.

I tend to cut my pork belly up in small pieces 6x10" or so... so they easily fit in gallon sized ziplock bag. I also prefer slicing along the short length,  it slices easily and fits better in a frying pan..

 Using only dry ingredients really is quite easy I think. I see virtually no downside to doing it this way.

I've got 9 pounds of belly curing now, the first batch of the year. It's only been curing 4 days. I'm going to have to wait until next weekend before I can smoke it... I'll probably take it out of the cure on Tuesday and maybe coat it with maple sugar and let that sit until next Saturday,  which is when I'll smoke it.
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Michael_NW

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2018, 08:48:03 PM »

I tend to cut my pork belly up in small pieces 6x10" or so... so they easily fit in gallon sized ziplock bag. I also prefer slicing along the short length,  it slices easily and fits better in a frying pan..

Using only dry ingredients really is quite easy I think. I see virtually no downside to doing it this way.

As I think ahead to pork belly, you are voicing some of my thoughts. Especially like portioning the belly as you describe. It makes perfect sense.

For Canadian/Back bacon I like to cut my loin in to pieces 6-8" long I weigh each and mix the cure mix for each piece, I use 1T Tenderquick and 1-1.5T dark brown sugar, I rub all of that onto and into the meat and put in a gallon ziploc bag. do that with each piece and into the fridge for 7 - 10 days then rinse and smoke to 140ish.

I have tried the brine curing for canadian bacon but prefer the dry method.

You are a braver man than me at this point. I look forward to gaining confidence.
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LowSlowJoe

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2018, 11:12:53 AM »

By the way --- Apparently the way real Canadian's eat their peameal bacon, is that you don't smoke it...  I'd never tried any actual peameal bacon myself, but in effort to make sure my own cured pork loin wasn't too salty, I did fry up a few small pieces before I smoked it.   I must say, those Canadian's probably are on to something... Unsmoked, cured pork loin, actually tastes quite good... a whole different flavor from the smoked variety.


   In effort to not confuse bacon, Canadian bacon, ham, and peameal bacon... I am thinking to call my cured smoked pork loin, something like pork loin ham... or maybe just cured smoked pork loin. :)
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mowin

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2018, 01:59:22 PM »

By the way --- Apparently the way real Canadian's eat their peameal bacon, is that you don't smoke it...  I'd never tried any actual peameal bacon myself, but in effort to make sure my own cured pork loin wasn't too salty, I did fry up a few small pieces before I smoked it.   I must say, those Canadian's probably are on to something... Unsmoked, cured pork loin, actually tastes quite good... a whole different flavor from the smoked variety.


   In effort to not confuse bacon, Canadian bacon, ham, and peameal bacon... I am thinking to call my cured smoked pork loin, something like pork loin ham... or maybe just cured smoked pork loin. :)

Why not just call it what it is... Canadian bacon. But I guess you can call it what you want.  As long as it's  :lick: :lick: :lick:
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BigDave83

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2018, 07:36:10 PM »

I tend to cut my pork belly up in small pieces 6x10" or so... so they easily fit in gallon sized ziplock bag. I also prefer slicing along the short length,  it slices easily and fits better in a frying pan..

Using only dry ingredients really is quite easy I think. I see virtually no downside to doing it this way.

As I think ahead to pork belly, you are voicing some of my thoughts. Especially like portioning the belly as you describe. It makes perfect sense.

For Canadian/Back bacon I like to cut my loin in to pieces 6-8" long I weigh each and mix the cure mix for each piece, I use 1T Tenderquick and 1-1.5T dark brown sugar, I rub all of that onto and into the meat and put in a gallon ziploc bag. do that with each piece and into the fridge for 7 - 10 days then rinse and smoke to 140ish.

I have tried the brine curing for canadian bacon but prefer the dry method.

You are a braver man than me at this point. I look forward to gaining confidence.


Don't know about brave, but I have been making canadian bacon like this for many years, hundreds of pounds of it. Will do eye of round in a similar fashion for dried beef type of product.
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Michael_NW

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2018, 11:26:15 PM »

But I guess you can call it what you want.  As long as it's  :lick: :lick: :lick:

My thoughts exactly!

Will do eye of round in a similar fashion for dried beef type of product.

Now that sounds interesting. Eye of round would lend itself to that well, I would think - fairly uniform shape though tapered on one end. What is the color of the meat after curing/smoking? Does it have a somewhat bacony flavor? Does the color change as pork does? How do you serve it, sort of like back bacon?
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Michael_NW

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Re: First attempt at back bacon
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2018, 12:49:26 AM »

Well, the back bacon is a success. I pulled the loin from the curing brine this past Sunday afternoon, rinsed it really well, sliced a piece off of one end and fried it up. It was just a tad salty, but then I expected the end piece to be that way so I went ahead and put it on the smoker. I ran the MAK at 230 using Lumberjack MHC and smoked them to an IT of 145; the two less thick pieces took 4 hours and the thicker one took 4.5. Put them all in the fridge overnight and then vacsealed them when I got home from work tonight. Each 3 lb piece was sliced in half before sealing. A taste from the center confirmed that the saltiness was spot on.

As you can see from the pics the meat wasn't very pink or red in color. For some reason I expected it to look like store-bought, but the flavor was waaaay better! Almost more of a ham taste. Maybe a dry application of the cure would result in pinker meat, I don't know. Overall, I am very pleased with the results! Thank you everyone for contributing to this discussion and going along for the ride with me!   :pig:


The cured loin going on the smoker. This was a great application for using the Tappecue as I didn't know just how fast cured meat cooks.
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All pieces off the smoker at IT 145 and cooling before spending the night in the fridge.
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A 3 lb piece sliced in half before vacsealing.
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