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[slaga]

pmillen just beat me to the point I was making. I'll leave it anyway.

I think there is a common misconception concerning the disposable masks, cloth masks, bandannas, etc., people are using. These masks, unless it is a respirator like the N95, protect others from the wearer's germs, not the other way around. The people wearing masks are protecting the people around them. Wearing these masks do not protect the people that are wearing them from getting COVID19 virus from other people around them.

So when you walk into a building wearing these masks properly and you see other people not wearing them properly, you are protecting them, and they do not give a rat's behind about protecting you.

[Kristin Meredith]

I am not coughing or sneezing when out.  If I was, I would not go out. I am not talking with anyone when I am out.  I am doing my discrete task and going home.  I am not socializing   Maybe all the folks who are out there going around in public coughing, sneezing, talking need to wear one. If there was a law that required one, I would obey the law -- unlike the speeder example.  If any store required one, I would either wear one or decide not to shop in that store.  If you are scared of me because I don't have a mask on, stay away from me don't come stand right next to me as some with masks have done -- and I have then walked away from them. 

I don't feel it is my job to protect anyone else.  I am responsible for me, you are responsible for you.  I don't wish to take on the role or the liablity of being responsible for protecting everyone around me.  But if you all feel this way, I assume that you have been wearing masks for years and years when you go out and may have a cold?  Because you could give someone else that cold and that might develop into pneumonia in them -- or they may take the cold to granny and she will develop pneumonia and die. So everyone has been wearing masks forever when they are ill because they care so much about their community right? 

[pmillen]

I don't feel it is my job to protect anyone else.  I am responsible for me, you are responsible for you.

 . Oh, Kristin, from your writings and the things you do for others I know you as a caring person.  I think that you care about protecting others more that you're letting on.  I suspect that to some extent, you care about protecting others.

Being our brothers' keeper is generally understood to mean feeling a sense of responsibility for the welfare of others.

But setting that aside...I am scared of maskless people who might come stand too close to me.  I would ask them to maintain a proper 6-foot distance.  And most reasonable people I know try to not pass their colds and other illnesses on to others.  They typically haven't been wearing masks, they simply stayed home until they recovered.

[yorkdude]

When we go out we do we wear masks, having said that they are not N95, they are fabric. I agree with both sides of the discussion. My thoughts are and will remain this way. If you are not comfortable going out for whatever reason just don’t. We CAN not adopt the mentality that others should do their part to protect us, it won’t happen. No one cares as much about you and those that you hold dear as much as you do. That would be the ultimate definition of Utopia. It ain’t going to happen. To each his own though and I get that.

[ICIdaho]

Open up.  If you are scared for your safety or families safety stay home.  No one is forcing you to visit the open businesses.  None of this is sustainable for any amount of time.  An unrecoverable crash will occur.  You think you want everyone 6' away from you now, wait until you are in a food or bread line with hundreds of other starving people.

I would be curious on the exact statistics, but as a logical person, I question this entire approach.  Let me guess that 70% are essential and still working.  I would bet that the majority of that 70% reside with a good portion of the stay at home 30%, thus exposing them.  What small percentage are truly protected?  Answer?  I don't know, but not many.  If I can go to the grocery store with hundreds of other people, why can't my barber cut my hair if a mask is worn, hands washed between each cut, and chair sterilized?  A lot of mitigation efforts could be utilized without having caused all of this.  I hate seeing what people are willing to let the government do to them in the name of "security".  That frightens me more than Covid-19.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin

[slaga]

I don't wish to take on the role or the liablity of being responsible for protecting everyone around me.

Kristin,

You do actually in a lot of ways. I am confident you wash your hands before preparing food for others. I am sure you follow food safety guidelines for food you plan to serve others. You already said if you feel sick you do not got out and expose others. I am sure there are many other examples. You do actually take responsibility for protecting those around you in many ways.

I think what I said about not giving a rat's behind may not necessarily be accurate in most cases. Those that choose not to (correctly) wear a mask may think they are only risking their own well being, but the truth is, they are really only risking the well being of others around them. Those that are wearing something other than an N95 mask, may feel like they are protecting themselves, but in actuality, they are protecting others around them a lot more than they are protecting themselves. Everyone makes the decision to protect others or not, whether it be wearing the mask, washing their hands before food prep, etc.

That said, people that are choosing not to wear a mask aren't really hurting anything in the grand scheme of things. We are not going to be able to stop the spread of COVID19. The steps taken have been an effort to slow down the spread to a manageable level. So far it has been successful, at the expense of some people's financial well-being and the economy as a whole. I am for opening businesses back up and getting the economy going again, even with the of risk of contracting COVID19.

[okie smokie]

Played my first 18 holes of golf today (15 holes last week).  Social distancing. No masks outside. Gorgeous day, and had a great round for having been off for 6 months. (surgery).. No reason for fear outside in the wind and sun, with proper distancing.  One man to a cart. Carts sterilized after each round. Flag is fixed, with shallow hole so it is easy to pick up your own ball. No touch the flag.  Still washed hands before and after.   

[BigDave83]

My only comment will be...what size is the Covid-19 virus?  What type of mask does it take to prevent the release/intake of inbound/outbound spores?  And are these masks available to all?


And I will ask Members not to denigrate others due to their political beliefs!

Bentley, I apologize if I was out of line and if you choose to delete any or all of anything you do not like, please feel free, after all I am a guest in your house here. No disrespect was intended.

[dk117]

ok I have a question, one I think we've danced around.  I feel comfortable posting here whereas not on social media. 

Stay at home and save lives.

OK does that imply I have a moral and civic obligation to do my best at social distancing?   Sure.  Does that mean if I unknowingly contract COVID and accidentally and unknowingly infect others that I am morally and maybe even legally responsible for their infection and potential death?

Honestly I don't think so.  I am not killing those potentially impacted folks, COVID is.   

Does that resonate with anyone else?  Assuming I am doing the best I can (or at least making an effort) during these unprecedented times? 

[slaga]

OK, since I need to be told what to do by some, I am not sick or asymptomatic.  When do I get to stop wearing the mask?  This is not rhetorical, confrontational, nor aggressive. I feel it is a legitimate question.  And since you want me to do something I don't want, I would at least like to know when I can stop!

For me, that is an easy one. Texas, my state "strongly, strongly encourages you to wear a mask" inside buildings, or in a car where all of the occupants do not reside in the same household, etc., but no one is required to wear one. Texas' verbiage actually does have 2 "strongly"s. There is no penalty for not wearing a mask in Texas though. People choose to wear them, or not. The few trips I have made recently, roughly about 95% of the people I have seen in the local grocery store are wearing them, and wearing them correctly, even though it is not required. The percentage at the liquor store was a lot lower...

[BigDave83]

In the Dictatorship of PA we are required to wear a mask when entering a business, those working are also required to wear one.

I was out yesterday everyone had masks on, I did not feel safe or unsafe pretty much just blindly following along not because I want to but because I have no choice if I want to buy toilet paper. 

[ICIdaho]

Stay at home and save lives.

No answer for your question, just an observation of a phrase.

This phrase has become a trigger for me.  What happened to slowing the curve so hospitals would not be overwhelmed?  That is why this was started.  Somehow it has turned into "stay home and save lives" when that was never the intent.  This logic will keep people locked up for eternity and pit neighbor against neighbor.  We all accept risk by leaving the house, getting in cars, airplanes, drinking alcohol, smoking, eating fat etc.  The media, and politics at play, which can never let a good crisis go to waste, has turned it into this to manipulate public opinion and get behaviors they are seeking.  I loathe group think, and see a lot less individual thought, and just see people willingly being herded.

[Kristin Meredith]

Paul, being my brother's keeper and caring for others are separate in my mind from "protecting others".  Maybe people see it as semantics, but it is a real issue to me.

I can care for people by doing as Jesus directed -- feeding them, clothing them, visiting them when they are sick or even caring for them when they are sick, even visiting those in jail.  I have done all that at different times in my life.  I canot take on the burden of "protecting" others, in part because I don't know what that entails and I don't trust the gov't to tell me.  I can care for others by not going out more than needed, by not going out if I am coughing or sneezing, by distancing and not appraoching people.  I am the person that stops in the grocery store aisle and won't pass a person because I don't want them to think I am getting too close.  I wait for them to move and then I move. But I don't like being told that it is up to me to wear or not wear certain things to protect others and make them feel better.  They need to be responsible for protecting themselves and not transfering that burden to me.

Today it is wear a mask -- funny, a few weeks ago, it was no need to wear a mask.  Maybe next month it is something else. Yeah, I cop to being suspicious of gov't and them telling me what I need to do especially when it involves what I wear -- it is a very slippery slope.  I know people will think this is extreme and maybe it is because I am a woman, but in visiting Iran, I was required to wear a hijab to "protect" men from lustful thoughts they might have if they just saw me in street clothes. Yes, we were told officially that is the reason. And they had police who would enforce it.  Maybe it just did something to me mentally, but I realized then and there I did not like a gov't telling me how I needed to dress to "protect" a portion of the population. I wanted to see the country, so I had to comply, but mentally it has stuck with me. And women are told all the time not to wear certain clothes to "protect" themselves from being assaulted by men who will be provoked by a short skirt or tight clothes.  So no, I am not into protecting others by wearing certain things unless required by law or if it is a store I want to go in.  I can't take on the burden of being responsible for the pyschology of others and what will make them feel "safe", they have to carry that burden themselves. 

[pmillen]

OK, since I need to be told what to do by some, I am not sick or asymptomatic.  When do I get to stop wearing the mask?

Bentley, I submit that you cannot know that you are asymptomatic.  You can know that you don't have symptoms, but asymptomatic is usually used to mean that a person has the disease but doesn't have the symptoms.  That's the worst scenario.  An asymptomatic person is likely to think, "I'm symptom free.  I don't have the disease.  I can free-wheel in society."  When, in fact, they're the 21st century version of Typhoid Mary.

So...my answer to your question is—you can stop wearing the mask when the experts (CDC) say you can.

[ICIdaho]

Thanks for the response.   

If I have been tested and I come up negative for Covid I know I am not asymptomatic.  Glad I live in a country I get to make my own decisions and am not dictated to by the Ministry of Science!

Submit to the Science!  Believe the models that are yet to be correct! Get tested and walk away with good faith that the test will protect you now and forever...or maybe you will get infected 10 minutes later...lot of good that test did.