Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Non food Related => Topic started by: dk117 on August 29, 2018, 03:48:30 PM
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yes I'm opening myself up here, but I'd appreciate leaving the political debate for another forum. Teachers are striking in Washington State for salary and class size among other things. 2012 the people of Washington State voted to increase property taxes in support of teachers. Here we are on what was supposed to be first day of school. My wife is a teacher, she works more in a year than I do in my lucrative fortune 500 company job.
On to the post. Not enough time to take the appropriate finished pictures. Two pork shoulders bone in. One chuck roast. A bunch of onions and peppers from the garden resulted not in pepper stout beef, but spicy bbq beef (I never did use stout beer, but beef broth, why waste a good beer?)!
Pulled pork was average, spicy BBQ beef was a hit. The community outpouring was 98% positive. Really fun to be part of the team and what a great way to build community support. Power to the pellets!
DK
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still having trouble posting images from an iPhone. One at a time it is.
two 8 lb bone in pork shoulders/butts.
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I keep saying I'm a low and slow guy, which I am. I think I'm going too low and slow. I need to kick it up a notch. On at 10:00 PM at 180 on the Gator. I know now the Traeger ran hot, the Gator is dead on. I should have run at 225.
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Of course I missed the pulling and plating, there was no time, I didn't have an opportunity for rest on the pork!
This is about half of our group representing one of the 23 or so schools impacted. Let alone the 265 districts impacted.
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DK
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There were so many doughnuts donated that the teachers were all full. Nonetheless, they tackled the pork and beef sliders and shared with a nearby school that didn't have food support. Nice show of support across the community.
DK
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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Kudos to your wife for teaching. My Mom was a teacher. I thought about it as a career but decided being a litigator was a lot easier -- and I am deadly serious about that. Nothing but admiration for those who have dedicated their lives to this profession. I was a public school product until law school and thought I had the most fabulous education in the world.
Kudos to you for the cook. Looks great and I am sure it was appreciated.
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Having lived here all of my 61+ years, I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly in our Public School system. My son went thru the system as well.
When I was in 8th grade algebra, I begged for help cuz I just wasn't getting it. None was offered. My son never set foot one day in school his Sr. year. He had enough credits already. I've seen kids run thru the system to graduate, when in reality, they shouldn't have come close.
Due to the Mccleary Act, public education in our state has been fully funded. 2 Billion $ has been dumped into the system to achieve this goal. It's against the law for public employees to strike in our state. Yet year after year, some district wants to strike for any number of reasons. It's illegal.
Those that strike aren't doing themselves any favors where the voters are concerned. We pay taxes to fund education. We pay property taxes to fund teacher salaries. The real issue has to do with how/where the money is spent. That's what folks are upset about. The teachers would be better served if they called the district and state officers on the carpet.
Teaching is a noble calling, if there is any sincerity in effort. Kudos to the wife for her efforts in and out of the class. She sounds wonderful. Same to you for serving them lunch.
Hope that wasn't too political. I could seriously go off on a tangent (something I learned in college). Get it? Tangent? Trig? ::)
Peace DK...
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Peace Bob!
I think we all have anecdotal evidence of both public education failing us and inspiring us to greatness. You're right, we're down to classroom size and distribution of allocated funds. You'd be hard pressed to find a group of people more disappointed to not be in the classroom today than our teachers themselves. I'm interested in your call for district and legislature to be taken to the mat/carpet. I suppose my opinion is that is exactly what this strike is doing with the tenuous illegal designation. Now I'm really close to breaking my own request.
Good luck to all. Teachers, kids, taxpayers, school board, and even the bloated leadership :P I had fun being part of the community today. And pellets made it happen.
DK
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Full disclosure I am a member of local 677 AWPPW union. My wife works for the local school district and is a paying union member also.(even though her job does not require it)
I support your wife 100%. Like what has been said it is a way to spotlight issues that need to be taken care of.
Great looking cook and great job supporting a good cause. I also have been on strike and appropriated the overwhelming community support we received from the local community. :cool:
I also better stop.
Mudflap
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"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"
Probably the biggest and best thing we can do as a country is to educate our neighbor. Unfortunately like everything else, once it becomes political one side will always try to find fault.
Just my :2cents:
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I did a research paper in an Econometrics class in college in the first ever such class in the history of my college where I was able to show a direct correlation between the government investment in education and the its ability to increase GDP. Not sure why the knuckleheads in charge of state and federal government have not read research by others smarter than me who have similar thoughts. Kudos to teachers for what they do and for their desire to want to be able to do more if they had more resources. I don't have the patience to do what they do day in and day out. Not sure why their salaries are close to the minimum wage of folks flipping burgers in some places. Even more disturbing hearing stories where they spend money out of their own pockets for school supplies to teach their students....utterly disgraceful that they have to do that. I challenge anyone to come up with a good reason why government investment in education is not one of the best investments our taxes could make. Thanks for the efforts of you and your wife!
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I challenge anyone to come up with a good reason why government investment in education is not one of the best investments our taxes could make.
It seems to me that all anyone would have to do is look at the GI Bill after WWII. All those men who could go to college and receive education and training -- it helped propel the US and the world to a better economic future. Money can buy some good stuff!!
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Education and teachers are important, but I am tired of the political football and the crowd runs around demonizing opposition who espouse a different view on spending or salaries.
In my local school district where my wife works as a para, the average citizen salary is less than $35,000 with no summers off. However that tax base supports teachers to the tune of an average salary from the last bargaining agreement proposal from the district of 72,446 for a contract time of a little over 200 days of work. The union was walking out over this proposal. This is how public entities go broke. I will leave it at that and not put too many personal opinions in this, every area is different with different salaries and needs.
As far as throwing more money at the education system to increase the test scores. This rarely is the case. Too many variables exist for this theory to work. The number one thing in improving test scores is the home life, not teacher salaries. Stability, parents who are available, care, and have time to give to their children goes farther than any government funded program. You can look at Utah's expenditures per child in 2016 of a little over 6,500 with New Yorks of over 21,000 and the proficiency is higher than New York's. New York is expensive though, so even compare it to Mississippi that has lower costs of living more in line with Utah. Mississippi spends 2,000 more per student and are ranked #51 for proficiency out of all states while Utah is #14.
Just some thoughts to ponder.
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I agree that home life substantially influences educational achievement. However, that does not mean that teachers do not bare some of the responsibility. When teachers are rewarded based on performance/achievement and not seniority, I will be more sympathetic to their cause.
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I challenge anyone to come up with a good reason why government investment in education is not one of the best investments our taxes could make.
It seems to me that all anyone would have to do is look at the GI Bill after WWII. All those men who could go to college and receive education and training -- it helped propel the US and the world to a better economic future. Money can buy some good stuff!!
Forgive me Kristen, but yer equating those that served our country (and the world) to the self absorbed 'me first' generation? Perhaps I'm reading too much onto your comment.
Nothing in life is free. Everything comes with a cost. That 'cost' comes from the taxpayers. The only folks that pay taxes are those that work.
Our nation has an abysmal record when it comes to 'public' education. Our system is 100% supported by taxes, and the bureaucracy behind it is consuming it. Little gets filtered down to those in the trenches. This is the problem we face. Government control.
I can't speak for anyone else in any other district, but here in Washington, we have a huge problem with accountability of government spending on EVERY level.
You'd have to live here to understand.
Free shizzle does NOT = good return on investment, when no investment is required.
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My wife has taught for 47 years, all in public schools. The biggest problem she has encountered, is the constant teaching method changes. Many think that giving a child warm, fuzzy feelings is more important than educating with a solid knowledge of the subject matter. We no longer teach civics. Is it no wonder no one knows anything about how our Government works? We teach very little history that explains the past, therefore we make the same mistakes. English is fluid? Well looking at what I read now, most cannot spell or put together a correct sentence if they tried. Math is a joke, without a calculator most cannot perform the basics.
I can go on and on.
Bottom line teachers in most areas are underpaid for the BS they deal with. Most teach because they love what they do and they care. The reward for them is that one student, against all odds, comes back 10 years later and says "Thank you for making a difference in my life."
Just my humble opinion. have a Great Labor Day weekend.
mk
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Thanks all. I think we're doing a pretty good job of maintaining a civil discourse here. For the most part I think I've said my piece on this subject, but I really like the food for thought comments letting the reader then make their own conclusion. Sometimes the facts help, sometimes they are pretty slanted towards one way of thinking ... anyway here goes.
I have 5 years of tax records showing my teacher wife spends $100 a month on her classroom students. $1200 a year. Yes her contract says 180 days, but she works 12 months a year and spends $1200 a year average on her job. Maybe my wife is an outlier. Maybe not.
DK
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It is not just the supplies and salaries, it is the buildings also. It is a critical problem here in Virginia, especially since many of the counties in the south and eastern parts of the state are pretty poor. Kids from one middle school in one of those counties are going to the "new" school -- built in 1928 with one electric outlet per classroom. If that is the new school, I would hate to see what kids in the old schools are putting up with.
And bobitis, whether the GIs "earned" their education is not the point -- they were the students, not the teachers. But when we provided money for them to go to school, the colleges were able to step up and provide good educations which propelled them forward. It has nothing to do with entitlement, it has to do with the fact that money paid for educations which resulted in a better workforce.
And I don't agree that the nation has an abysmal record re public education. I was a product of 12 years in public schools and 4 more years in a public college. My classrooms were all in good shape and fairly new. I do think one of the biggest differences was: (1) teachers were respected; and (2) parents supported teachers, they did not take them on and challenge everything they did and every grade their angel received. Also, schools were allowed to discipline effectively (I don't mean corporal punishment) without a parent going ballistic and suing.
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Thanks all. I think we're doing a pretty good job of maintaining a civil discourse here. For the most part I think I've said my piece on this subject, but I really like the food for thought comments letting the reader then make their own conclusion. Sometimes the facts help, sometimes they are pretty slanted towards one way of thinking ... anyway here goes.
I have 5 years of tax records showing my teacher wife spends $100 a month on her classroom students. $1200 a year. Yes her contract says 180 days, but she works 12 months a year and spends $1200 a year average on her job. Maybe my wife is an outlier. Maybe not.
DK
She must be a dedicated outlier, or works summer school, or coaches extracurricular activities, in which case she should be paid in addition to the normal contract. The other option is you live in an upside down world that makes kids go to school year around, in which case I would move!
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I have 5 years of tax records showing my teacher wife spends $100 a month on her classroom students. $1200 a year. Yes her contract says 180 days, but she works 12 months a year and spends $1200 a year average on her job. Maybe my wife is an outlier. Maybe not.
DK
Sadly this seems to be more common. I know I take a ton of supplies to my kids teachers all the time.
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I have 5 years of tax records showing my teacher wife spends $100 a month on her classroom students. $1200 a year. Yes her contract says 180 days, but she works 12 months a year and spends $1200 a year average on her job. Maybe my wife is an outlier. Maybe not.
DK
Sadly this seems to be more common. I know I take a ton of supplies to my kids teachers all the time.
Ditto to that. I ask my wife if we are supplying the entire school. She use to sub at the school my kids go to. She said that a lot of the parents are not able to give anything at all, so we make up for it I guess....
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I guess I am the exception to this rule.
One parent a graduate of Princeton, another the other University of Montana. Both with time to and did give to said child...and yet here I am. A high school and college graduate but no real education that has manifested itself in life and who has trouble spelling kat!
The desire to achieve has to be in the person in order to achieve! It is kind of like my take on sobriety...if you are ready and willing to be sober there is nothing anyone can say or do to prevent you! If you are not, there is nothing anyone can say or do that will help you get sober!
As far as throwing more money at the education system to increase the test scores. This rarely is the case. Too many variables exist for this theory to work. The number one thing in improving test scores is the home life, not teacher salaries. Stability, parents who are available, care, and have time to give to their children goes farther than any government funded program.
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I guess I am the exception to this rule.
One parent a graduate of Princeton, another the other University of Montana. Both with time to and did give to said child...and yet here I am. A high school and college graduate but no real education that has manifested itself in life and who has trouble spelling kat!
The desire to achieve has to be in the person in order to achieve! It is kind of like my take on sobriety...if you are ready and willing to be sober there is nothing anyone can say or do to prevent you! If you are not, there is nothing anyone can say or do that will help you get sober!
As far as throwing more money at the education system to increase the test scores. This rarely is the case. Too many variables exist for this theory to work. The number one thing in improving test scores is the home life, not teacher salaries. Stability, parents who are available, care, and have time to give to their children goes farther than any government funded program.
I was only talking test scores vs money spent, but I do think you helped my point. Sounds like you graduated high school and college, probably because your parents did care and push. Can you imagine where you would have been at age 18 if no one gave a xxxx what you did and you had no drive? Nothing guarantees success, not even wanting it does. That is life. I agree though, I kicked a tobacco habit 10 years ago. It only happened when I was ready. I would "try" to quit when I really did not want to, and it never stuck until I had kids and had incentive to not want to anymore.
HAHA, apparently the non curse word slang for doodoo is a bad word on here. It changed it to xxxx's!
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Probably in the military where I belonged at that age. I never had an issue with authority, and did much better when someone was telling what to do then trying to figure it out on my own...If nothing else I could hold my head up on veteran's day instead of feeling I need to be apologetic about it!
I understand what you are saying. To the best of my knowledge though, I have never seen a driven person who is a failure in life!
Can you imagine where you would have been at age 18 if no one gave a xxxx what you did and you had no drive? Nothing guarantees success, not even wanting it does. That is life.
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Agreement reached. First day of school is today!
Jules in 9th grade. Lauren sideways as always in 6th grade.
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I will spare all of you from my attitudes about teaching/teachers/class size/Betsy DeVos etc. etc. etc.
But, I want to say that I love the pics of the meat DK117!
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My Mom has been a teacher for more than 40 years. (she is semi retired and substitute teaches) She has a masters degree and had a hard time getting a full time position because of what the teachers union required schools to pay her. She would have worked for less because she loves teaching, but instead can only sub for people with less education or commitment. I don't doubt OP's wife does a great job like most teachers, but until the teachers union either backs down or does away with tenure they will not gain any traction. The 80/20 rule applies in public education like it does in most situations.
As far as teachers striking, I think its terrible they are exploiting young peoples future. When I was in high school our teachers threatened to strike and push our graduation back. IMHO that is not ok.....
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The money was supposed to be ear-marked for salaries and School Districts see it as a cash cow to promote whatever pet project the school superintendent and or board decides. My oldest friends wife is a teacher, they are still on strike, 1st offer if you can call it that was a 1% pay-raise, some districts want to pay the oldest and youngest teachers more but also eliminate special pay for certain qualifications and changes in Medical costs that leave core Teachers in the middle of the pack worse off then before. My stance is "Pay the Teachers" and cut the administrators or their big salaries. As an example our Governor makes $172,000 (CEO to largest workforce in state) here is just a sample of Superintendent salaries: Full Salary Sched here:
http://data.spokesman.com/salaries/schools/2016/job-titles/browse/?job_title=Superintendent
Lawrence L Nyland Seattle Public Schools Superintendent $289,887 $8,400 $10,416 $308,703
Carla Jo Santorno Tacoma School District Superintendent $267,608 $0 $9,360 $276,968
John Dean Deeder Evergreen School District (Clark) Superintendent $260,691 $0 $10,303 $270,994
Steven Truby Webb Vancouver School District Superintendent $256,429 $13,987 $9,870 $280,286
Arthur O Jarvis Renton School District Superintendent $252,000 $15,200 $9,360 $276,560
Amy Beth Cook Lake Stevens School District Superintendent $250,904 $6,031 $10,734 $267,669
Calvin Jerome Watts Kent School District Superintendent $250,000 $10,200 $21,384 $281,584
Justin T Mills Bellevue School District Superintendent $247,000 $23,600 $12,060 $282,660
Ronald Dion Thiele Issaquah School District Superintendent $246,465 $9,600 $10,563 $266,628
Elin Kristine Mcduffy Arlington School District Superintendent $243,394 $10,000 $11,163 $264,557
Nicholas John Brossoit Edmonds School DistrictSuperintendent $243,266 $22,200 $9,146 $274,612
Shelley K Redinger Spokane School District Superintendent $239,999 $0 $21,902 $261,901
Tammy L. Campbell Federal Way School District Superintendent $231,750 $19,992 $10,042 $261,784
Marci L Larsen Mukilteo School District Superintendent $228,373 $60,320 $10,000 $298,693
Susan Ann Enfield Highline School District Superintendent $226,600 $19,421 $8,992 $255,013
Jean I Shumate Stanwood-Camano School District Superintendent $226,004 $0 $9,885 $235,889
Alan Spicciati Auburn School District Superintendent $221,022 $0 $10,743 $231,765
Rebecca Lee Miner Shoreline School District Superintendent $218,536 $24,586 $9,708 $252,830
Gregory W Baker Bellingham School District Superintendent $217,950 $38,600 $10,870 $267,420
Traci Lee Pierce Lake Washington School District Superintendent $216,300 $23,793 $23,127 $263,220
John P Welch Educational Service District 121 Superintendent $213,277 $12,000 $26,736 $252,013
Timothy G Merlino Educational Service District 112 Superintendent $212,000 $0 $9,360 $221,360
Fredrika A Smith Monroe School District Superintendent $211,692 $2,200 $9,831 $223,723
Gary S Plano Mercer Island School District Superintendent $210,458 $1,500 $9,290 $221,248
Thomas Gary Seigel Bethel School District Superintendent $209,894 $14,720 $11,271 $235,885
Timothy Stewart Yeomans Puyallup School District Superintendent $205,946 $40,774 $1,052 $247,772
G.Joel Aune Snoqualmie Valley School District Superintendent $204,520 $41,927 $10,365 $256,812
Deborah L Lebeau Clover Park School District Superintendent $201,000 $0 $2,211 $203,211
Richard A Mcbride Educational Service District 171 Superintendent $199,500 $18,000 $10,080 $227,580
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The money was supposed to be ear-marked for salaries and School Districts see it as a cash cow to promote whatever pet project the school superintendent and or board decides. My oldest friends wife is a teacher, they are still on strike, 1st offer if you can call it that was a 1% pay-raise, some districts want to pay the oldest and youngest teachers more but also eliminate special pay for certain qualifications and changes in Medical costs that leave core Teachers in the middle of the pack worse off then before. My stance is "Pay the Teachers" and cut the administrators or their big salaries. As an example our Governor makes $172,000 (CEO to largest workforce in state) here is just a sample of Superintendent salaries: Full Salary Sched here:
http://data.spokesman.com/salaries/schools/2016/job-titles/browse/?job_title=Superintendent
Those numbers are obscene and the reason many folks (including me) vote against local initiatives for "education" funding. Thats worse than the not for profits where a penny on every couple dollars goes to the cause.
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I should have been a school superintendent.
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Wow, what salaries. I have always thought the rule should be that teachers made more than anyone in any type of admin position. But then I have always been an outlier.
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The teachers aren't doing that bad either. Here's a quote from the local Seattle newspaper: "The raise and other benefits in the new agreement would be retroactive to Aug. 31, when the current contract expired. Under the 2015-2018 contract, Seattle teachers earn between $50,604 and $100,763. A 10.5 percent hike would change the salary range to $55,984 to $111,343.7 days ago". And all for 180 days/yr. work, or 311.02 to 618.57 per day. Most of us worked 250 days/yr. or more for a heck of a lot less. :2cents:
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Maybe they should consider rolling back things like tenure.... Those salaries further anger me about teachers striking, selfishly hurting childrens education. If I was in high school and someone earning in that range were to strike and delay my graduation I'd loose my mind.
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Those previously near, and now maybe slightly above six figure salaries as teachers ... Those have 16 to 20 years experience and a PH.D (or equivalent masters with 90 credit hours). It's not all that common. It's a stretch to call a PH.D with two decades of experience in any field selfish for wanting to get paid.
I think I understand the anti union sentiment, much I agree with. But the jealousy of teacher salaries and benefits I'll just never get. They aren't paid that well.
If your graduation were delayed 4 days, go ahead and lose your mind. Never-mind (haha nice pun!) that snow days, and the Washington State legislature, and the school board (who should have settled back in April when the teachers wanted) had more to do with your potential graduation "delay" than any teacher or union.
B&K I think this conversation is done, the last two districts in my County have tentative agreements as of today. We've all said our piece. I can delete or you can lock.
DK