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[okie smokie]

We have been trying to use the local restaurants take out service.  We have noted that many restaurants are following the stay at distance, mask and glove recommendations but some aren't.  When I see an unmasked ungloved person coming at me or see into the kitchen area (most of time I cannot do this) and they are not gloved or masked, I wave them off and leave.  If possible I tell their rep. why I am leaving. 
Now having said that, I agree that we are not likely to get infected by food itself, as the saliva, and gastric acids are antiviral in nature, but we could get surface contamination to our hands, and therefore contaminate ourselves by touching nose, face , eyes where entry can result.
Soooo use common sense as to where you go for takee-outee.  Most pizza chains are taking pizza out of the oven at 450* and sliding into the box without touching. And most are using gloved hands to do so. So that is safe.  Burger/sandwich joints still require someone to put veggies and condiments on the buns.  And of course salads require a bit of hand work.They should be wearing masks and gloves for our sake, not theirs. If you buy foods that have a high level of hand contact during preparation, it is a good idea to transfer to plate, discard the wrappings, wash your hands, and Nuke the food and plate for 60 seconds or more to heat it up and kill virus/bacteria. Not sure about how well microwaves kill virus, but suspect it is pretty effective. There are several articles about this and in summary, not uniform agreement. General consensus is that better to use it for longer period than above and to stir (when possible) to get to the spots missed. You might not like the food if nuke it too long. Make cold things and salads at home if poss.?

[Kristin Meredith]

Why are glpved hands any better?  A person with gloves touches something with the virus, doesn't it stay on the glove?

[BigDave83]

Why are glpved hands any better?  A person with gloves touches something with the virus, doesn't it stay on the glove?

I wonder the same thing. we went to the store today and they have bags over the CC machine, a big plexiglass in front of the cashier, some have masks others have a  flip up face shield. No gloves and she was spraying and wiping the belt down after every transaction. We had 2 carts one for us one for her grandparents, I said we are together she said she still needs to wipe the belt. So the belt is clean but who knows how many people touched the items we picked up before us. I don't think there is a way to be 100% safe unless you stay in your house and only use the products you have in stock.
 The whole thing still puzzles me, as from different things I have read say 97% recovery rate of those infected. It seems there are far more things killing folks each day. Not a big conspiracy person most of the time but there is an agenda being played out here by whom and for what reasons I am not sure.

[MysticRhythms]

Why are glpved hands any better?  A person with gloves touches something with the virus, doesn't it stay on the glove?

This is what people are not understanding.
At my store I get several suggestions from customers on a daily basis that my checkers should be wearing gloves.
I tell them that if they are wearing gloves then they would have to change them after each order. They then say then do that. Then I tell them that if you believe that the packages of the person in line in front of you are contaminated with the virus then yours might be too. That means they would need to change gloves after each item they touch.
But they still want to use their nasty reusable bags. Those things are the germiest things in the store.

[Kristin Meredith]

I do a lot of reading of data bases and comparing.

In a 4 month period, COVID-19 has killed approximately 59,000 globally.  Everyday, 153,000 people die globally of things other than COVID-19.

Every year in just the U.S., cancer kills over 600,000  -- that equals 11,500 per week.  In the five week period since the first death by COVID-19 in the U.S. has announced about 7200 people have died of the virus.  In that same period, about 57,500 people have died of cancer.

If 1.625 million people in the US died of COVID-19, that would equal .005 of our population.

More than 6.6 million Americans applied for unemployment benefits last week -- a new record. The past two weeks have seen more people file for unemployed claims than during the first six months of the Great Recession in 2008/2009.

In March alone, 10.4 million Americans lost their jobs and applied for government aid, according to the latest Labor Department data, which includes claims filed through March 28. Many economists say the real number of people out work is likely even higher, since a lot of newly unemployed Americans haven’t been able to fill out a claim yet.

“We’ve never seen anything like this,” said Aaron Sojourner, a labor economist at the University of Minnesota. “The scale of the job losses in the past two weeks is on par with what we saw in two years during the Great Recession."

Many newly unemployed have said they weren’t able to apply for unemployment benefits, because the phone lines were so swamped they could not get through. Gig and self-employed workers like barbers and hairdressers were also not eligible to apply until the end of March after Congress pass the $2.2 trillion relief bill to expand who qualifies for aid. These workers are only just beginning to file out applications.

Economists and policymakers fear even more Americans will lose their jobs in the coming weeks and companies that have been trying to hold on to workers have to let them go or reduce their hours to almost nothing.
 
I guess this response by politicians lasts for as long as the average American is willing to trade the economic numbers for the medical numbers.

[triplebq]

Clearly everyone has their opinion and I can respect that. I take a different approach.

As of today the reported numbers state that Globally there are 1,216,422 confirmed cases with 65,711 deaths. If we do the math that means a rate of over 5% are dying. In the US the numbers are better, 311,658 confirmed with 8,492 deaths. That would be about 2.7% death rate.

The rate at which people are dying from COVID-19 is alarming. With almost 8 Billion people in the world. A 5% death rate would mean over 1,000,000 could die every day. In the US with 330 Million people @ 2.7% that could mean over 24,000 people dying every day.

No one wants the economy destroyed just like no want wants to see the high death rate from COVID-19. Remember these numbers are in addition to non COVID-19 numbers. If the choice is open up the economy and let COVID-19 run wild or close down a major part of the economy in an attempt to control/slow down COVID-19, I will take the later.

We all have our own opinions which is a good thing.

[Kristin Meredith]

Any scientist will admit that the death rate which is currently "known" is inaccurate because they don't know the true number who have it now or have had it -- and they never will.  The estimates are that the numbers infected are 10 to 30 times greater than those that we "know" have had it through testing. That would greatly lower mortality as was demonstrated by the Germans.

Interesting sidebar,   in Italy, a country with the worst measured mortality rate, around 86% of the dead have been 70 or older with 50% being 80 or older. I read of an alternative approach posed recently, based on these numbers, which suggested mandatory quarantine of those 65 and above with moneys being spent to support them in quarantine (grocery and supplies delivered, home doctor visits for routine check-ups) and to send around medics everyday to check temps, etc. Then "herd immunity" would eventually take over in a matter of months. (The cycle of COVID-19 spread is supposed to be 84 days)  There would still be ill and deaths, but the medical systems would not be overwhelmed.  An interest scenario.
   
As I said, the status quo will remain until opinion changes on what direction folks prefer. 

[okie smokie]

Any scientist will admit that the death rate which is currently "known" is inaccurate because they don't know the true number who have it now or have had it -- and they never will.  The estimates are that the numbers infected are 10 to 30 times greater than those that we "know" have had it through testing. That would greatly lower mortality as was demonstrated by the Germans.

Interesting sidebar,   in Italy, a country with the worst measured mortality rate, around 86% of the dead have been 70 or older with 50% being 80 or older. I read of an alternative approach posed recently, based on these numbers, which suggested mandatory quarantine of those 65 and above with moneys being spent to support them in quarantine (grocery and supplies delivered, home doctor visits for routine check-ups) and to send around medics everyday to check temps, etc. Then "herd immunity" would eventually take over in a matter of months. (The cycle of COVID-19 spread is supposed to be 84 days)  There would still be ill and deaths, but the medical systems would not be overwhelmed.  An interest scenario.
   
As I said, the status quo will remain until opinion changes on what direction folks prefer.

Sidebar above: Interesting idea.  However, that is assuming that not dying from the virus is a piece of cake. Unfortunately, I am told that many who survive, who were symptomatic, have various degrees of misery that they suffered and some will have residual damage effects-esp. in the lungs. There are less of these in the younger group but a fairly large effected group is age 50-65. Would be interesting if they could model the current approach to the one suggested above (which of course is the one that would more likely save the economy quicker)?

[Kristin Meredith]

Just curious Okie smokie, are the reidual effects greater or suffered with more frequency by those with pre-existing lung issues e.g. I have had pneumonia twice and bronchitis more times than you can shake a stick at.  Would I be more susceptible to residual effects? Or perhaps not enough data yet?

[triplebq]

Any scientist will admit that the death rate which is currently "known" is inaccurate because they don't know the true number who have it now or have had it -- and they never will.  The estimates are that the numbers infected are 10 to 30 times greater than those that we "know" have had it through testing. That would greatly lower mortality as was demonstrated by the Germans.

Yes we all know there is no way to know the exact numbers. This is the same for the flu, COVID-19, and everything else. Even if the reporting is 30x out of wack this would not change the fact that the COVID-19 virus appears to be more deadly than others. You can only record the known for whatever illness. 

[MysticRhythms]

I have a lot of conflicting thoughts on Covid 19.
On the one hand, it does appear to be more contagious than influenza. The scientists are all saying that it is a very "sticky" virus. That it lives on surfaces longer than the flu. It also can be spread for a far longer period of time in an asymptomatic person - as long as 14 days they are now saying.
It is clearly a scary virus.
Throw in the fact that there is no vaccination or known effective treatment and I can understand people's fear.

On the other hand, I am a numbers person.
According to the numbers that triplebq posted about 8500 people have died in America. I realize those numbers change and it could be higher by now, maybe 9500?
We are effectively shutting down the country in response.
If we are doing that now then why did we not react at all during the 2016-2017 flu season when 38,000 Americans died of the flu? Out of 29,000,000 cases that is a .13% fatality rate. The lags behind the reported 5% rate of Covid but I think it has been pointed out that thousands of people have or had Covid without it being reported, thus the actual fatality rate of Covid is far lower than 5%. It is probably higher than the flu but how much?

[Kristin Meredith]

Wow, this has to be a seriously unexpected side effect.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/during-pandemic-unanticipated-problem-health-150355070.html

[Bar-B-Lew]

Yeah, I know a few people that work in labs that are effected by layoff or furlough.  My sister has been a nurse for about 30 years.  Sometime within the last 6-12 months she moved off the floor and into a desk job booking appointments.  I think she has gone back to working on the floor in one of the departments she used to work in because there are no longer elective surgeries at the hospital where she works.

[Bar-B-Lew]

Just chatted with my sister.  She is taking a furlough and is on standby as needed by the hospital.  She is not trained on ventilators or in the ICU unit but probably worked at almost every other part of the hospital over the years.

[Trooper]

One thing is for sure - from my unpopular point of view -

We are being fed, constantly, by a news media (all networks)  xxxx bent on negativity and sensationalism.

I'm through following these "stories" that are being published 24/7