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[triplebq]

OK I will add my  (before taxes)

So the goal of having everyone stay home is to help level (slow down) the number of people who catches Covid-19. The reason this is of importance is because our current healthcare system can't handle the large number of people who are getting sick currently. For example if we could slow down the number of people getting sick everyday from 10,000 to 500 our healthcare system stands a better chance of treating them.

Now when we all get back to our normal lives (whatever that is going to be) there will be a better understanding of how to treat this virus. Maybe there will be some meds we can take to slow down the fatality from 1-2% to .1% like the flu.

[ICIdaho]

Leaders and not doctors will need to make the decision when to return.

    

Wow, your quote purposefully lost all context.
That is reality though. No doctor was elected. Leaders will be the ones to decide. Don’t go too crazy, they are surrounded by experts, but we cannot be locked down until a vaccine is ready. I certainly will not hide for the next year, our society would collapse.

[hughver]

"are surrounded by experts"

One would surly hope that those experts are doctors and one would additionally hope that the leaders listen to them.

[triplebq]

So it is your understanding at this time that the US is not handling the sick and they are over whelmed?  Does not answer my question regarding self quarantine.

Sorry but my post was not a response to your question. It was a response to the entire thread. And yes currently some of the issues the US is facing is lack of kits to test people, lack of ventilators for those sick, lack of medical personal, etc.

[Kristin Meredith]

"are surrounded by experts"

One would surly hope that those experts are doctors and one would additionally hope that the leaders listen to them.

Well, having done med mal, I can attest to the fact that many doctors think they know best and have done evrything right when they have screwed up tremendously.  I always said that if other professionals -- doctors, lawyers, bankers, etc -- were as good as all the lawyers I worked with (both in my firms, as co-counsel, and as opposing counsel) that would mean half of them were incompetent.  Humans, no matter their skill, training, testing and background are fallible and are also capable of getting swelled heads, thinking they know a lot more than they do, and getting a sense of self-importance.

[Kristin Meredith]

So it is your understanding at this time that the US is not handling the sick and they are over whelmed?  Does not answer my question regarding self quarantine.

Sorry but my post was not a response to your question. It was a response to the entire thread. And yes currently some of the issues the US is facing is lack of kits to test people, lack of ventilators for those sick, lack of medical personal, etc.

I am curious.  I have not read of any person who needs a ventilator being denied one.  Does anyone have any info on that -- other than folks saying "there will be shortages"? The US currently has 170,000 ventilators.

[hughver]

that would mean half of them were incompetent. 

I don't disagree, however even incompetent lawyer, doctor, Indian chief, etc., probably knows more about their area of expertise than most leaders (left and right) whose specialty is blowing smoke.

[Kristin Meredith]

that would mean half of them were incompetent. 

I don't disagree, however even incompetent lawyer, doctor, Indian chief, etc., probably knows more about their area of expertise than most leaders (left and right) whose specialty is blowing smoke.

I don't disagree with your assesment of pols, but I have known some really dumb and corrupt lawyers, sooo......

[hughver]

I have known some really dumb and corrupt lawyers, sooo......

And we have all known dumb and corrupt politicians.   

[Kristin Meredith]

Kristin - not a direct answer to your question, but on the malpractice side of your earlier post, there is an interesting article on Reason.Com about potential hospital/doctor liability if a hospital is unable to provide a patient a ventilator even if due to a shortage.  Not sure I am allowed to post the link.

Sure, go ahead and post.  I would be very interested in reading it.  Thanks.

[Trooper]

I stand by the comment that I made on March 14 - Over the cliff.

   "We've turned the corner. Normal life will absolutely NOT return".

[Kristin Meredith]

I am sorry about your aunt.

The article was interesting, but overlooked a major factor in the use of ventilators -- personnel to operate them.  As I understand it, it takes two years to train an RT and even now, the country does not have enough to adequately staff our needs.  From my research, an RT should handle no more than 10 patients in a shift although they would probably stretch that in an emergency -- but at some point, you do exhaust people.  So, if I was defense counsel, I think the most effective argument is why purchase the extra 1,000 machines when we have no ability to hire those extra 100 RTs.  But this is why lawsuits get filed, so what do I know.

[triplebq]

I am sorry about your aunt.

The article was interesting, but overlooked a major factor in the use of ventilators -- personnel to operate them.  As I understand it, it takes two years to train an RT and even now, the country does not have enough to adequately staff our needs.  From my research, an RT should handle no more than 10 patients in a shift although they would probably stretch that in an emergency -- but at some point, you do exhaust people.  So, if I was defense counsel, I think the most effective argument is why purchase the extra 1,000 machines when we have no ability to hire those extra 100 RTs.  But this is why lawsuits get filed, so what do I know.

Your argument is spot on. This is why there is a desire to slow/flatten the curve. The lack of ventilators is only a part of the problem. If we could somehow slow down the rate where people are getting sick from the virus, it gives us a better chance to get through this.

[ICIdaho]

I am sorry about your aunt.

The article was interesting, but overlooked a major factor in the use of ventilators -- personnel to operate them.  As I understand it, it takes two years to train an RT and even now, the country does not have enough to adequately staff our needs.  From my research, an RT should handle no more than 10 patients in a shift although they would probably stretch that in an emergency -- but at some point, you do exhaust people.  So, if I was defense counsel, I think the most effective argument is why purchase the extra 1,000 machines when we have no ability to hire those extra 100 RTs.  But this is why lawsuits get filed, so what do I know.

Your argument is spot on. This is why there is a desire to slow/flatten the curve. The lack of ventilators is only a part of the problem. If we could somehow slow down the rate where people are getting sick from the virus, it gives us a better chance to get through this.

Not to intrude, but I find it interesting. I understand flattening the curve. My sister is a nurse practitioner.  My neighbors son in law is doctor in NY.  My wife has a friend in Italy. I hear surprising and real grounded arguments. My sister says it is real, but statistics are being manipulated for sensational reasons and need perspective. My wife’s friend in Italy hopes that our leaders will be stronger and not allow the economic destruction. She says that they are on the way to rationing and lines seen in 3rd world countries that they will not be able to turn around for years.

Lives survive and will no longer survive on both ends of these decisions. This needs to be faced by all generations. I have parents in their 70’s. I am not young in today’s world of aging being a little under 50, but I do have kids entering this show. It is destroying their future. They are my focus. I will never look at any government as a provider. That is my job. The government’s actions are taking that ability away from me and millions of others. People should be scared to death at how quickly they allowed unelected people to influence leaders to lock them down. I would rather face a nasty flu without hospital care as the alternative.   WOW. TMI. Now you know where I stand. I think I will now be out of this thread. I hope everyone that wants to hunker down will do so. I hope the others that wish to keep the country running will be allowed to do so also.

[triplebq]

Not to intrude, but I find it interesting. I understand flattening the curve. My sister is a nurse practitioner.  My neighbors son in law is doctor in NY.  My wife has a friend in Italy. I hear surprising and real grounded arguments. My sister says it is real, but statistics are being manipulated for sensational reasons and need perspective. My wife’s friend in Italy hopes that our leaders will be stronger and not allow the economic destruction. She says that they are on the way to rationing and lines seen in 3rd world countries that they will not be able to turn around for years.

Without a doubt we have different news cycles that are making it seem worse and some who want to make it seem like it's the common flu. This is with everything in the US. Finding the info you can trust is always tough.

Lives survive and will no longer survive on both ends of these decisions. This needs to be faced by all generations. I have parents in their 70’s. I am not young in today’s world of aging being a little under 50, but I do have kids entering this show. It is destroying their future. They are my focus. I will never look at any government as a provider. That is my job. The government’s actions are taking that ability away from me and millions of others. People should be scared to death at how quickly they allowed unelected people to influence leaders to lock them down. I would rather face a nasty flu without hospital care as the alternative.   WOW. TMI. Now you know where I stand. I think I will now be out of this thread. I hope everyone that wants to hunker down will do so. I hope the others that wish to keep the country running will be allowed to do so also.

Seeing the government as a provider is one of those slippery slope topics. I think most people clearly want our government to provide us security against foreign interest, protect our utilities, protect our food supply and things like that. To what extent we want government intervention is always tough.

The good thing is people have the ability to make decisions that affect their lives for the most part. For example as you mentioned you would "rather face a nasty flu without hospital care as the alternative". Clearly this is a choice you can make today. I personally lean the opposite way.

The trick is trying to find that middle ground that works for all (well most).