Pellet Fan
All Things Considered => General Discussion--Non food Related => Topic started by: Bentley on May 04, 2020, 07:15:15 PM
-
Just taking a small pulse of the country. I think we have a pretty good representation of the country, maybe a little lite on the female side...
-
Restaurants are about the only places that I would like to go to other than grocery and pharmacy. Until their is a better indication about how they catch this virus early in someone and have some meds to stop you from needing to get to the respirator stage, I will probably be staying in. Right now, I go out about once a week to pick up groceries and beverages. Often times on the weekend, get together with a few of my cousins for some table games. All of us are working from home and the only other interaction we have outside of our group is going to the grocery. Ask me again in 30 days and my story may be different.
-
I voted yes. If it is done smartly, I would not have a problem going to the barber (although I sheared my hair myself a few days ago). I do not have much hair, but mostly go for the social aspect. I know that word "social" seems to have bad meanings these days. My state opened parks up this weekend, so we did take the family and dog out to the park for something different. I have been to the supermarket many times and even though they monitor how many folks go in, and have everyone stand on line, it has always been pretty crowded. If restaurants are smart about seating arrangements etc. might think about going there too, provided I am still working and have money. Church the same way, if they are smart with seating at first then yes church too.
-
Not ready to yet. My mother is in assisted living and I haven't seen her in close to 2 months. Don't want to jeopardize things once I can see her again.
-
I have to say, I am embarrassed about how paranoid I let myself get. I am not diminishing the potential dangers. Not in my wheel house, having said that, some (including me) have exacerbated this. Just my opinion, nothin but feelings to base it on. I am no longer willing to hunker down to help mitigate the risks, we have 3 children and a dandy Granddaughter and best I can tell the check we all had to write (taxpayers) and hope it will cash is a tremendous burden. I helped to saddle them with it. As Doris Day so eloquently sang, Que sera sera, whatever will be will be. Did my rant make you try to sing it? Back when I was racing drag boats our saying was as we were hitting the detonator (magneto switch) “Let er happin Capnâ€. Off we went.
-
No for us.
No restaurant for sure
-
My home state, Nebraska, is in the first round of opening. Not for Marcia and me. We'll wait it out until the CDC says is safe to mingle with the public. I've seen too many people who take no precautions and, I think, endanger others.
-
Yes, I will go forth.
-
I will wait a while before going to eat at restaurants, etc. My problem is people don't seem to know how to social distance. Not sure why it is so hard to stay 6 feet from someone ???.
-
We'll wait it out until the CDC says is safe to mingle with the public.
I am just curious and don't mean this in an aggressive manner -- why do you think the CDC will know?
-
I already have been to restaurants twice since Texas opened on Friday. I have been tracking the numbers for our county and just don't trust the numbers. We keep being told that a spike is coming in Harris County that never arrives (or hasn't for almost 3 weeks now). Lastly, data models seem to routinely be wrong these days (seas rising, elections, number of dead from pandemic, etc.) so I don't put a lot of stock in them.
That being said everybody should do what they feel is best for themselves.
-
I am very willing to respect those who do not wish to go out. I go a step forward and say we, as a society, should re-open things and identify those in vulnerable groups and do what we need to support them in a shelter in place policy until a vaccine is developed -- grocery and pharm deliveries, home health care visits if needed, etc. What I don't see from a lot who wish to stay at home is a respect for my desire to go out.
For example, across from us is a park and the Master Gardeners have built a pollinator garden at the park with paths and an info kiosk. This is the time of year that we need to trim, deadhead and weed extensively or the garden looks derelict and overrun. We have been advised that, due to the shut down, we may not go outside in the garden and weed and maintain it -- even if we go and maintain 6 ft from each other or if we go by ourselves. Sorry, but that makes no sense. No one can pull weeds by themselves in an outdoor garden.
But I am not a scofflaw and follow the regulations set down, so the garden, which should be at its height of beauty for those who are allowed to walk in the park for exercise, looks like a weedpatch. But do I believe it is completely assinine and overkill and have to wonder at its purpose -- yes.
-
I am very willing to respect those who do not wish to go out. I go a step forward and say we, as a society, should re-open things and identify those in vulnerable groups and do what we need to support them in a shelter in place policy until a vaccine is developed -- grocery and pharm deliveries, home health care visits if needed, etc. What I don't see from a lot who wish to stay at home is a respect for my desire to go out.
For example, across from us is a park and the Master Gardeners have built a pollinator garden at the park with paths and an info kiosk. This is the time of year that we need to trim, deadhead and weed extensively or the garden looks derelict and overrun. We have been advised that, due to the shut down, we may not go outside in the garden and weed and maintain it -- even if we go and maintain 6 ft from each other or if we go by ourselves. Sorry, but that makes no sense. No one can pull weeds by themselves in an outdoor garden.
But I am not a scofflaw and follow the regulations set down, so the garden, which should be at its height of beauty for those who are allowed to walk in the park for exercise, looks like a weedpatch. But do I believe it is completely assinine and overkill and have to wonder at its purpose -- yes.
Exactly!
-
I voted NO- Why? being in my mid seventies puts me in the high risk group..I don't need to go to work any more, nor do I do sports... Eating out, a subject recently covered here, is not appealing as we do a
much better job at home... Travelling long distances to visit our family and not stopping to eat or take a break will have to wait until we know for sure just how safe, safe is.
Being retired and having a less vigorous lifestyle has made adjusting to Covid-19 easier for us than the younger set.
We go for essentials paying special attention to the most minute details... I also go for my daily, early morning walks..
-
My family falls in the age / health group that is generally not terribly affected by COVID-19. Outside of my wife and kids, our closest relative on either side of our family lives about 9 hours away so we have no monthly contact with family that is of the age, or pre-existing health conditions, that are more susceptible to COVID-19 issues. I voted yes. I am more open to getting back to close to "normal" than my wife is. If she were on here, she would probably cancel my vote. I do have concerns that if I were to get back to a fairly normal life, and contracted the virus, I might come in contact with someone who has loved ones that fall into the category that is more susceptible to issues caused by COVID-19. I would hate to be the one that passes the bug on unknowingly and be somewhat responsible for a friend's, or even someone I casually know like wait staff at a restaurant, family member contracting the virus. So I am a little torn. I am blessed in that I already work from home, and my wife now works from home for the foreseeable future. This has not impacted us financially nearly as much at it has others I know. The way I look at this, we have to weigh the risk of the virus to the financial impact this is having on society as a whole, and what is right for some is never right for all. I am beginning the think we need to get back to normal as much as possible and still try to protect the more vulnerable groups in society, but that is a very fine line to try to walk.
I do not see this site as having a very diversified demographic. This site will be weighed heavily on the men, over 40, side. I look at the poll with that in mind and fully expect the people that are more susceptible will vote no and the one's that are less suscetptible, and needing to get back to work to provide for their families, to say yes.
-
I said yes but my wife would say no, which means we won't be going anywhere. She's panicking about everything going on like she does with everything. She gets nervous when we have a thunderstorm and is really worried about this. And yet she works in a petri dish of pre-K, kindergarten and first grade children. She should have antibodies that haven't been discovered yet.
-
I reluctantly voted no. I am more than ready and I think if things open up slowly we will be OK. I am willing to start taking steps, but I think we need to take a closer look as to how we can safely get things going again.
I know one of the debates on opening up churches is singing. Singing can be a major way of spreading the virus. Hymnals, offerings, the sacraments, can also be high risk activities that you never think about (or at least I have not till now). I think we need some better guidelines before just opening up.
That being said, there are a lot of things I think we can safely do. There are some measures that have been put in place that defy logic (as Kristin pointed out) and things we can do with a reasonable risk. I just wish we could take the politics out of it and start doing things in a more rational way. If this was not an election year I think the whole pandemic would have been handled in a much different way. If common sense is common, why is it so uncommon?
Here is an article that discusses the problems involved with singing in churches: https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/covid-19/churches-could-be-deadliest-places-covid-19-pandemic
-
It's funny that I had been running free (while keeping my distance) in Menards and anyplace else that was open for over a month, and now I have to wear a mask. ::)
I figure God will take me when He's ready, virus or no virus. ;)
-
I voted yes, but even though the question was yes or no, my answer is not black and white. My resumption of "normal" activity is inversely proportional to the existing severity of the virus and directly proportional to the availability of a proven vaccine. :2cents:
-
I am not even close to being ready. My state is not yet opening and I am glad.
We have to recognize that we have never been successful in developing a vaccine for any previous corona virus.
Getting this virus under control is going to be a long term commitment that requires a societal response and behavior changes.
The biggest risk now are the "nobody is going to tell me what I have to do" people. Folks that won't wear a mask and/or refuse to social distance.
Things are going to have to change, and how much, and for how long, depends on folk's ability to adapt and change behaviors.
The WWII generation, often referred to as the greatest generation, had to withstand bombings, shortages, food stamps, and more. They adapted and persevered.
Our generation is having difficulty with not being able to go to the beach or get a haircut to help stop the spread of a deadly virus. We'll have to see what we are remembered for.
We need to figure out how to retool our economy for the next few years. How we work, educate, shop, dine and gather will likely change, either now, or after the next wave hits and folks realize we have no choice.
-
The WWII generation, often referred to as the greatest generation, had to withstand bombings, shortages, food stamps, and more. They adapted and persevered.
You need to study up on your history a bit better. The WWII generation which beat the enemy and preserved freedom and liberty neither "adapted nor persereved", they resisted, fought, sacrificed. It was the Chamberlains and the Vichy French who sought to "adapt" -- and things didn't turn out too well for them.
To me, your attitude is somehwat defeatist -- "never been successful" in developing a certain vaccine so just adapt? That is not the Amerca I know. No colony had ever successfully defeated the British Empire at the height of its power until Americans did. No one had defeated polio until Salk. No one successfully landed men on the moon and returned them to earth until America did. We have always believed that what we put our minds to accomplish and do, we can do -- and we then go out and do it. Appollo 13 is a perfect example of that spirit. They didn't tell those men to adapt to the fact they would probably die, they said "This will be our finest hour" and it was. Attitude, not adapting, is everything.
-
My answer is YES, even though I worked through the entire "TIME OUT" they imposed on us. I still feel most of this is not what the claim NOT to say this virus isn't bad just really looking at facts or best I can find that are not B.S from CNN, NBC and so forth.
Now I hear they are claiming deaths to get feds money because if not they would miss out. I'm so tired of the so called press now a days that feel they have to be THE STORY instead of just giving facts. I can't watch news anymore even FOX can be "poop" at times.
He!! this is America not some 3rd would state that has to be controld, and don't get me started with the house or senat about what's wrong and how to fix it they can't balance their own check books.......
sitting down now
-
I voted no on this simply because I would be in the second wave of people to venture out. I will observe the first wave from the safety of my home. If they don't cause a spike in cases, then I will venture out.
-
Bentley,
Title is "If allowed in your State, County, City...Would you go back to church, restaurants, bowling, hair saloon...pick your activity."
I am just bustin' your chops a little on this one but if my state allowed a hair saloon (not salon) to open, I'd be all over that... :pig:
-
The WWII generation, often referred to as the greatest generation, had to withstand bombings, shortages, food stamps, and more. They adapted and persevered.
You need to study up on your history a bit better. The WWII generation which beat the enemy and preserved freedom and liberty neither "adapted nor persereved", they resisted, fought, sacrificed. It was the Chamberlains and the Vichy French who sought to "adapt" -- and things didn't turn out too well for them.
To me, your attitude is somehwat defeatist -- "never been successful" in developing a certain vaccine so just adapt? That is not the Amerca I know. No colony had ever successfully defeated the British Empire at the height of its power until Americans did. No one had defeated polio until Salk. No one successfully landed men on the moon and returned them to earth until America did. We have always believed that what we put our minds to accomplish and do, we can do -- and we then go out and do it. Appollo 13 is a perfect example of that spirit. They didn't tell those men to adapt to the fact they would probably die, they said "This will be our finest hour" and it was. Attitude, not adapting, is everything.
The people of London adapted and persevered. In the US we adapted and persevered. The comment regarding the vaccine is addressing the issue that there is no guarantee that there will be a vaccine, in 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, so we cannot count on it. This is not defeatist, it is scientific reality. Our risk plans have to be realistic. Each risk has a probability. It is a high probability that we will not have a vaccine in the near future so we have to plan for that possibility. We certainly hope that we can develop one in time. We don't want this to follow the HIV trajectory (no vaccine) because it is much more difficult to contain. Tell me that the folks that are protesting or going to the beach without masks or distancing are helping? The grit that it takes to beat a virus is not the same grit it takes to beat an enemy. The grit that is required is the ability to adapt so we can defeat. You don't beat it by standing your ground. Unfortunately, if we are not all pulling together the situation just gets worse. I don't see people practicing an Apollo 13 spirit when they complain about not being able to go to the beach and do not follow social distancing guidelines when they are finally able to get there. I don't see creative and novel ideas coming from this crowd. I see folks that want to pretend that things are like they used to be; to be able to go about their life like nothing is wrong. This is not a problem that someone is going to fix for us. We are a critical part of the solution and we need to have the guts and perseverance to do what it takes.
-
I voted yes. I'm a work from home person full time 19 years and counting. My family however is suffering and not from finances or health, but mental health.
So who is going to lead? It really is tempting to let the scientists lead, but let's be honest, our models and data are still incomplete. Have we flattened the curve? I just don't know, we do however have hospital capacity in my area. Should the economists lead? Eventually there will be a price tag to human life, and I'm ok with that because if we want to admit it or not, there already is one with economic suffering. I've heard little acknowledgement of that from the scientific community, the economic and mental hardships this is bringing to not just the USA but the world. So then we turn to the politicians who are all playing their games for their own benefit.
I'll just stop there because I don't want to say anything I'll come to regret. Though I did vote yes and would like to cautiously open up and see how this plays out over the next few years. There will be death and suffering no matter what we do. I do think we need to seriously consider the solution being worse than the problem.
-
I am just curious and don't mean this in an aggressive manner -- why do you think the CDC will know?
Anyone who says "Safe to mingle" or "Not safe to mingle" is making an educated guess based on their knowledge and experience. The CDC certainly has more of both than me in this field. My opinion wouldn't be any more authoritative than flipping a coin or casting chicken bones in the dust.
So, I'll defer to them.
-
Mother's day with son and family will be our first try. Because of our age, we are not real cozy with it, but my the kids are all well at the moment. We shall see. I may chicken out.
-
I am just curious and don't mean this in an aggressive manner -- why do you think the CDC will know?
Anyone who says "Safe to mingle" or "Not safe to mingle" is making an educated guess based on their knowledge and experience. The CDC certainly has more of both than me in this field. My opinion wouldn't be any more authoritative than flipping a coin or casting chicken bones in the dust.
So, I'll defer to them.
I don't know the answer to this but perhaps you do. Is the CDC going to tell each state when it is "safe to mingle"?
-
"The people of London adapted and persevered. In the US we adapted and persevered." -- there is a difference between adapting and enduring. One is passive conformance to events, the other is to experience without giving in. A big mental difference in how one approaches the world. Probably explains the difference between the Greatest Generation and the current generation you bemoan.
-
Is the CDC going to tell each state when it is "safe to mingle"?
IDK, how the "Safe to mingle" decision will be implemented.
Speaking of states, Nebraska's COVID-19 case count and deaths are climbing at an increasing rate. Yet, the governor has begun to re-open businesses (including barbershops, salons, tattoo parlors and massage therapy businesses). To me, it proves, once again, that nothing trumps the profit motive.
-
Thanks. The reason I ask is that from everything I have read, it is up to each governor to open or close a state. I know the CDC has been critical in general of states opening, but I did not know if they were actually providing state by state guidance of when they felt a state could open or just the guidelines.
-
Here in Baldwin County, Alabama we have only had 189 cases and 5 deaths. The beaches are open now with restrictions. For this reason I am expecting Baldwin County cases and deaths to go up. There are a lot of out-of-town people from hard hit metropolitan areas looking for the beaches.
The restaurants are take-out only for now, but they could be opening up soon. I have been getting take-out food more than I normally ate out at restaurants. This is to help the local businesses plus I am getting tired of cooking so much. I still will be cautious about going out where there are a lot of people for a while.
-
"Speaking of states, Nebraska's COVID-19 case count and deaths are climbing at an increasing rate."
I am not sure what metric you are looking at. Yes, if you have a total number, then if you go from one death to two deaths over a one week period then you have an increasing rate and always will. You can never go back to zero deaths. But they are looking at daily increases and decreases.
In NE, the highest daily case count was April 24 with 608 new cases reported. Then it went dow, then up again and on May 1 they reported 557 new cases. Then it has decreased each day and, as of May 5, it was 355 new cases. It may increase again, who knows.
The same is true for the death rate. There have been 81 deaths since Feb 29. The high to date has been April 29 with 13 deaths, then it went down significantly for several days with one death on May 4 and 2 deaths on May 5. So total overall cases and deaths have been increasing since the first case and death was reported. The current trend is down. Whether that will stay that way only time will tell.
-
I voted yes. I still get out for things I want or need. Except if it is from a closed up place. There seems to be so much double standard in the Dictatorship of PA, you can have hundreds of people in Wally World, Lowes, Home Depot, but the small shop up the street that sees maybe 30 customers a day needs to be closed.
We do go shopping for her grandparents and for 2 people in their 70's or 80's they seem to go through a lot of groceries. I go out and eat at the local places, usually pick up, and now some of the small road side BBQ places are opening I like a few of them, some it is more the people that own them than the food.
For me life really has not changed much other than not eating in a restaurant. Not a bar or movie theater goer. That said I am ready for the complete government control to be over.
-
First let me say I am not down playing Corona Virus, Our Grandson's fiancée mother passed from complications of the virus so it has hit close to home. Second, my wife has a compromised immune system due to chemo therapy so we are aware of what could happen. We have been "Social Distancing" for the last year before it was the "Latest Buzz Phrase". In the last year we didn't shut ourselves inside our house. We continued to live as close to normal as we could, very careful, but close to normal. We avoided crowds, sat in the very back of Church, we kept our distance from anyone who was coughing and sneezing so for this outbreak it wasn't much of a change for us. I will also say I'm not the kind of person that will be convinced of anything without doing my own research. We gave up National News 5 or 6 weeks ago due to the continual 24/7 coverage. So I have been absorbing the data from NYS own numbers on how concerned we should be. As more testing is being done here they are finding out that somewhere around 20+ percent of NYS population was been infected (per the antibody testing) but the state is only publishing 14% . Andy Cuomo doesn't want to look like the dipstick that he is, so I used his 14% in calculating the death rate for this "Pandemic". I have the data from the beginning of March until the end of April. As more are tested and we see the antibody test show a much higher state infection rate, the States fatality rate will be hardly a blip on the seasonal flu scale..... Anyway, this is my data, my take of what's happening in NYS, and yes we will continue to be careful, but are ready to continue to enjoy our lives. Oh, by the way using NYS's numbers that you will not see on the evening news the fatality rate through the end of April has been .64%. Be careful, be safe, do your own risk assessment and enjoy what we have !!!! Again my thoughts, your mileage may vary !!!
-
Thank you for the opportunity to allow me to vent. First i think it is important to know my age which is 75. I also understand from reading thee post many of us have different opinions.
I answered yes. I firmly believe we need to fully open our economy and allow us to go on living our lives. I am tired of the inconsistencies of how the rules are being applied across the boards. Wear masks, don't wear masks, stay at home unless you must go food shopping etc.. some states parks are fully closed others are open to exercise. Don't need a mask to exercise but you must have one if outdoors. You can boat but only if fishing for food. More importantly I do not understand why all the small businesses must be closed yet Home Depot, Lowes etc are allowed to remain open. xxxx they have a lot more shoppers then I have ever seen in an Ace Hardware store, the local florist, taylor shop etc. Oh and why are liquor and canaibis stores allowed open but not local garden stores.
I am not one to promote conspiracy theories , however, we as American must be careful in giving up our rights to the politicians and their cronies. Over the years I have been in to many foreign countries where I have seen too many people had too few rights. IMO we are heading this way and if it keeps up we will find that Big Brother is in control of our lives. For instance why did the Michigan governor not allow people to work in their yards but state employees are cutting grass on state properties, why did she allow out of state to go to their summer homes but initially prevent residents from visiting their properties.
Oh the best one IMO is in my neighborhood. Comcast is installing new lines throughout the community and have have employed a hundreds of employees to dig the trenches and lay the cable. At no time did i see any of these people wear masks or keep the social distancing guidelines.
So anyway let us lead our lives and not allow the government to take away our rights that our fore fathers and our Military fought so hard to protect.
-
Part of the thing that really upset me is that the media and those that are trying to control the people are already setting you up by telling you that the second wave will be coming in October and we will be experiencing this all over again. Just in time to to do a few things, one, it will be right around election time, just as now is primary elections time and they are interrupted. The blow to the economy currently and now they are setting you up to do it again at one of the times that people are out moving and shopping for Thanksgiving and Christmas, yet again they will screw over the small business while keeping the major chain stores open and running.
Are people dying from this, yes but they are dying from many other things also. If you are allowing yourself to be controlled and are hiding in your house because you Governor tells you that you have to, are you really living anyways.
-
I failed to remember it was Cinco de Mayo yesterday which required an impromptu grocery store run for Corona and taco fixings. I was in the store maybe 15 minutes. They have one way isles only and half the entrance and exit doors blocked (I really wonder what the fire marshal would think.) I decided not to wear the mask I bought on Amazon, it itches my goatee and fogs up my glasses. About half of the shoppers didn't have masks. What really shocked me, and is the purpose of my post ... let's talk about the half of people who had masks.
Pharmacist mask but hanging off of one ear not covering mouth
pharmacy techs (all three of them) following suit of the boss, mask but hanging off their ears.
Checker mask, but covering her chin mostly, nose and top lip exposed
60 plus year old guy behind me. Mask around his neck, I kid you not.
The points have already been made that grocery shopping, home depot and lowes are big risks. But I have to wonder if we've accomplished anything with the sort of behavior I saw yesterday. And I'm counting myself in the recklessness, I just lived my life and had some tacos and Coronas last night like I would any May 5th. So what's with the posturing and "I shelter in place better than you do" but then only have a mask as some sort of fashion statement. Insanity all around.
-
So why not everyone look out for their own needs, if you want to keep 10 feet away from me then do that. Why should I or anyone else be required to do that, just because you feel it is needed for your safety. The freedom and liberty that this country was founded on and is still standing on is just being taken away a little here and a little there, maybe if we do this while they are looking at that no one will notice. If you are that concerned then you have a choice stay at home have someone else do your shopping or what ever you may need done in the public and you will be fine, well maybe, you will still need to disinfect every item purchased for you before you touch it or bring it into your home because if not you are putting yourself at risk.
I am only 54 but I do not ever remember states shutting down and people being told to stay inside and required to wear masks if you go out. Past viruses seem to have been as harsh or worse that this one. So in my mind there just may be something to the whole political and conspiracy thing. Given illness of the past and precautions taken sure does make it seem that there is more of and agenda being played out than just trying to keep every one safe.
-
I am not sure what metric you are looking at.
(https://wnjgya.ch.files.1drv.com/y4m9Y1bPRA2U0xyp7x7Y-hXEiX2Er2hauAOv24DSYZ9y7A9cfX0Vi27E3kEyCCc91VPSdHJm9zjDURpBOBRtetg4nmBZjdLOI4s-AuYGHdJBCrWUHSpsSVPEi4OB7ABePOT9gOZsncBDWIc0VAFZjz514rdk5M1Mn6suel2egTPy3h0ovI2ouN_qw2K7bG6C-bGApjmGaWjCHgNLB5W_RRhUw?width=660&height=568&cropmode=none)
Yeah, the growth rate stopped increasing a few days ago. Nevertheless, this trend doesn't encourage me to mingle with people who may have COVID-19 and don't take precautions to stop spreading it.
-
I agree, this whole virus thing, 70K+ U.S. deaths, is just a conspiracy concocted by one of the political parties and supported by Wall Street, big business and the media to take over the country. The effect on the rest of the world is just a necessary by product. We actually have a vaccine but will not use it until the take over is complete. ???
-
The mask issue is an interesting one. From my research, only the N95 will stop the COVID-19 virus and I believe only medical personnel have access to those. And you need training on how to properly fit them.
I was out this morning -- all sorts of face coverings including bandanas. I don't wear any because I prefer to constantly remind myself to stay at least 6 ft from people, which was the original and still preferred and safest method to stop human to human transmission. And all sorts of ways people were wearing them -- off on one ear, not covering the nose, taking it off to talk with folks, etc. Funny thing, nearly every person wearing any type of face covering felt very comfortable getting close to others in lline, in aisles, going into stores. Even with masks, people are suppose to distance. I think the mask makes them feel protected and that now that they are wearing something on their face, they don't have to pay attention. I also wonder how many folks are remembering to wash hands when they get home before they do anything else. It's what I don't like about props -- they give folks a false sense of security.
-
My only comment will be...what size is the Covid-19 virus? What type of mask does it take to prevent the release/intake of inbound/outbound spores? And are these masks available to all?
And I will ask Members not to denigrate others due to their political beliefs!
We have custom made masks that a neighbor that does quilting for a hobby made for the neighborhood. She also made them for a local hospital.
-
The mask issue is an interesting one. From my research, only the N95 will stop the COVID-19 virus and I believe only medical personnel have access to those. And you need training on how to properly fit them.
From watching TV reports, talking with a physician and reading, it appears to me that the primary benefit to non-N95 mask wearing is to stop wearers from "spraying" their surroundings with COVID-19 when they cough, sneeze or even talk. So the wearer isn't necessarily protecting themselves, they are protecting others.
The mask wearing discussion reminds me of something a speeding defendant who tried to outrun the highway patrol said in his statement to the judge. He said that he feels that he has the right to risk his own life by speeding on the highway. The judge pointed out that he might maim or kill someone else when he has an accident and asked if he thought that he has the right to endanger others. The speeder's response was that he would probably be dead and wouldn't know about it.
EDIT: So requiring non-N95 mask wearing is certainly banging up against a person's right to do as they please, but it's probably necessary to protect the community.
-
pmillen just beat me to the point I was making. I'll leave it anyway.
I think there is a common misconception concerning the disposable masks, cloth masks, bandannas, etc., people are using. These masks, unless it is a respirator like the N95, protect others from the wearer's germs, not the other way around. The people wearing masks are protecting the people around them. Wearing these masks do not protect the people that are wearing them from getting COVID19 virus from other people around them.
So when you walk into a building wearing these masks properly and you see other people not wearing them properly, you are protecting them, and they do not give a rat's behind about protecting you.
-
I am not coughing or sneezing when out. If I was, I would not go out. I am not talking with anyone when I am out. I am doing my discrete task and going home. I am not socializing Maybe all the folks who are out there going around in public coughing, sneezing, talking need to wear one. If there was a law that required one, I would obey the law -- unlike the speeder example. If any store required one, I would either wear one or decide not to shop in that store. If you are scared of me because I don't have a mask on, stay away from me don't come stand right next to me as some with masks have done -- and I have then walked away from them.
I don't feel it is my job to protect anyone else. I am responsible for me, you are responsible for you. I don't wish to take on the role or the liablity of being responsible for protecting everyone around me. But if you all feel this way, I assume that you have been wearing masks for years and years when you go out and may have a cold? Because you could give someone else that cold and that might develop into pneumonia in them -- or they may take the cold to granny and she will develop pneumonia and die. So everyone has been wearing masks forever when they are ill because they care so much about their community right?
-
I don't feel it is my job to protect anyone else. I am responsible for me, you are responsible for you.
:). Oh, Kristin, from your writings and the things you do for others I know you as a caring person. I think that you care about protecting others more that you're letting on. I suspect that to some extent, you care about protecting others.
Being our brothers' keeper is generally understood to mean feeling a sense of responsibility for the welfare of others.
But setting that aside...I am scared of maskless people who might come stand too close to me. I would ask them to maintain a proper 6-foot distance. And most reasonable people I know try to not pass their colds and other illnesses on to others. They typically haven't been wearing masks, they simply stayed home until they recovered.
-
When we go out we do we wear masks, having said that they are not N95, they are fabric. I agree with both sides of the discussion. My thoughts are and will remain this way. If you are not comfortable going out for whatever reason just don’t. We CAN not adopt the mentality that others should do their part to protect us, it won’t happen. No one cares as much about you and those that you hold dear as much as you do. That would be the ultimate definition of Utopia. It ain’t going to happen. To each his own though and I get that.
-
Open up. If you are scared for your safety or families safety stay home. No one is forcing you to visit the open businesses. None of this is sustainable for any amount of time. An unrecoverable crash will occur. You think you want everyone 6' away from you now, wait until you are in a food or bread line with hundreds of other starving people.
I would be curious on the exact statistics, but as a logical person, I question this entire approach. Let me guess that 70% are essential and still working. I would bet that the majority of that 70% reside with a good portion of the stay at home 30%, thus exposing them. What small percentage are truly protected? Answer? I don't know, but not many. If I can go to the grocery store with hundreds of other people, why can't my barber cut my hair if a mask is worn, hands washed between each cut, and chair sterilized? A lot of mitigation efforts could be utilized without having caused all of this. I hate seeing what people are willing to let the government do to them in the name of "security". That frightens me more than Covid-19.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin
-
I don't wish to take on the role or the liablity of being responsible for protecting everyone around me.
Kristin,
You do actually in a lot of ways. I am confident you wash your hands before preparing food for others. I am sure you follow food safety guidelines for food you plan to serve others. You already said if you feel sick you do not got out and expose others. I am sure there are many other examples. You do actually take responsibility for protecting those around you in many ways.
I think what I said about not giving a rat's behind may not necessarily be accurate in most cases. Those that choose not to (correctly) wear a mask may think they are only risking their own well being, but the truth is, they are really only risking the well being of others around them. Those that are wearing something other than an N95 mask, may feel like they are protecting themselves, but in actuality, they are protecting others around them a lot more than they are protecting themselves. Everyone makes the decision to protect others or not, whether it be wearing the mask, washing their hands before food prep, etc.
That said, people that are choosing not to wear a mask aren't really hurting anything in the grand scheme of things. We are not going to be able to stop the spread of COVID19. The steps taken have been an effort to slow down the spread to a manageable level. So far it has been successful, at the expense of some people's financial well-being and the economy as a whole. I am for opening businesses back up and getting the economy going again, even with the of risk of contracting COVID19.
-
Played my first 18 holes of golf today (15 holes last week). Social distancing. No masks outside. Gorgeous day, and had a great round for having been off for 6 months. (surgery).. No reason for fear outside in the wind and sun, with proper distancing. One man to a cart. Carts sterilized after each round. Flag is fixed, with shallow hole so it is easy to pick up your own ball. No touch the flag. Still washed hands before and after. ;D
-
My only comment will be...what size is the Covid-19 virus? What type of mask does it take to prevent the release/intake of inbound/outbound spores? And are these masks available to all?
And I will ask Members not to denigrate others due to their political beliefs!
Bentley, I apologize if I was out of line and if you choose to delete any or all of anything you do not like, please feel free, after all I am a guest in your house here. No disrespect was intended.
-
ok I have a question, one I think we've danced around. I feel comfortable posting here whereas not on social media.
Stay at home and save lives.
OK does that imply I have a moral and civic obligation to do my best at social distancing? Sure. Does that mean if I unknowingly contract COVID and accidentally and unknowingly infect others that I am morally and maybe even legally responsible for their infection and potential death?
Honestly I don't think so. I am not killing those potentially impacted folks, COVID is.
Does that resonate with anyone else? Assuming I am doing the best I can (or at least making an effort) during these unprecedented times?
-
OK, since I need to be told what to do by some, I am not sick or asymptomatic. When do I get to stop wearing the mask? This is not rhetorical, confrontational, nor aggressive. I feel it is a legitimate question. And since you want me to do something I don't want, I would at least like to know when I can stop!
For me, that is an easy one. Texas, my state "strongly, strongly encourages you to wear a mask" inside buildings, or in a car where all of the occupants do not reside in the same household, etc., but no one is required to wear one. Texas' verbiage actually does have 2 "strongly"s. There is no penalty for not wearing a mask in Texas though. People choose to wear them, or not. The few trips I have made recently, roughly about 95% of the people I have seen in the local grocery store are wearing them, and wearing them correctly, even though it is not required. The percentage at the liquor store was a lot lower...
-
In the Dictatorship of PA we are required to wear a mask when entering a business, those working are also required to wear one.
I was out yesterday everyone had masks on, I did not feel safe or unsafe pretty much just blindly following along not because I want to but because I have no choice if I want to buy toilet paper.
-
Stay at home and save lives.
No answer for your question, just an observation of a phrase.
This phrase has become a trigger for me. What happened to slowing the curve so hospitals would not be overwhelmed? That is why this was started. Somehow it has turned into "stay home and save lives" when that was never the intent. This logic will keep people locked up for eternity and pit neighbor against neighbor. We all accept risk by leaving the house, getting in cars, airplanes, drinking alcohol, smoking, eating fat etc. The media, and politics at play, which can never let a good crisis go to waste, has turned it into this to manipulate public opinion and get behaviors they are seeking. I loathe group think, and see a lot less individual thought, and just see people willingly being herded.
-
Paul, being my brother's keeper and caring for others are separate in my mind from "protecting others". Maybe people see it as semantics, but it is a real issue to me.
I can care for people by doing as Jesus directed -- feeding them, clothing them, visiting them when they are sick or even caring for them when they are sick, even visiting those in jail. I have done all that at different times in my life. I canot take on the burden of "protecting" others, in part because I don't know what that entails and I don't trust the gov't to tell me. I can care for others by not going out more than needed, by not going out if I am coughing or sneezing, by distancing and not appraoching people. I am the person that stops in the grocery store aisle and won't pass a person because I don't want them to think I am getting too close. I wait for them to move and then I move. But I don't like being told that it is up to me to wear or not wear certain things to protect others and make them feel better. They need to be responsible for protecting themselves and not transfering that burden to me.
Today it is wear a mask -- funny, a few weeks ago, it was no need to wear a mask. Maybe next month it is something else. Yeah, I cop to being suspicious of gov't and them telling me what I need to do especially when it involves what I wear -- it is a very slippery slope. I know people will think this is extreme and maybe it is because I am a woman, but in visiting Iran, I was required to wear a hijab to "protect" men from lustful thoughts they might have if they just saw me in street clothes. Yes, we were told officially that is the reason. And they had police who would enforce it. Maybe it just did something to me mentally, but I realized then and there I did not like a gov't telling me how I needed to dress to "protect" a portion of the population. I wanted to see the country, so I had to comply, but mentally it has stuck with me. And women are told all the time not to wear certain clothes to "protect" themselves from being assaulted by men who will be provoked by a short skirt or tight clothes. So no, I am not into protecting others by wearing certain things unless required by law or if it is a store I want to go in. I can't take on the burden of being responsible for the pyschology of others and what will make them feel "safe", they have to carry that burden themselves.
-
OK, since I need to be told what to do by some, I am not sick or asymptomatic. When do I get to stop wearing the mask?
Bentley, I submit that you cannot know that you are asymptomatic. You can know that you don't have symptoms, but asymptomatic is usually used to mean that a person has the disease but doesn't have the symptoms. That's the worst scenario. An asymptomatic person is likely to think, "I'm symptom free. I don't have the disease. I can free-wheel in society." When, in fact, they're the 21st century version of Typhoid Mary.
So...my answer to your question is—you can stop wearing the mask when the experts (CDC) say you can.
-
Thanks for the response.
If I have been tested and I come up negative for Covid I know I am not asymptomatic. Glad I live in a country I get to make my own decisions and am not dictated to by the Ministry of Science!
Submit to the Science! Believe the models that are yet to be correct! Get tested and walk away with good faith that the test will protect you now and forever...or maybe you will get infected 10 minutes later...lot of good that test did. ::)
-
Get tested and walk away with good faith that the test will protect you now and forever...or maybe you will get infected 10 minutes later...lot of good that test did. ::)
Yeah, that's the rub. Get the test, find that you are COVID-19 negative and get exposed before you arrive at home. That's why everyone should wear a mask. For no other reason than being courteous.
-
I'm currently wine impaired, but I don't know what to make of this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqgus2R55XA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqgus2R55XA)
-
Look her up on snopes.com
-
Look her up on snopes.com
The mind boggles.
-
Get tested and walk away with good faith that the test will protect you now and forever...or maybe you will get infected 10 minutes later...lot of good that test did. ::)
Yeah, that's the rub. Get the test, find that you are COVID-19 negative and get exposed before you arrive at home. That's why everyone should wear a mask. For no other reason than being courteous.
Your mask weakens your immune system. People need exposed to a lot of things to remain strong. This lock down and measures are going to put a whole lot of people into risk category they would not normally be in when they emerge from the bunkers. Virologists that warn of this are being shut down by media and big tech. If you are vulnerable and in the category, I agree 100%...but not for healthy people, it weakens everyone vs. protects those that need to be. I wish you well, I have gathered your age from posts.
-
Look her up on snopes.com
Snopes is not always reliable either. The political leanings of the owners are well documented and the sources they pull from can be agenda driven. The amount of false information that has to be weeded through to be informed is the problem with our world. Politics should not be allowed to have any bearing on medical/scientific communities.
-
Millions of folks no longer have jobs or insurance. They have lost their homes. My 401K has been decimated as has millions of others. How many would rather 'take their chances' as opposed to the unconstitutional restrictions being enforced on the people?
-
Look her up on snopes.com
Snopes is not always reliable either. The political leanings of the owners are well documented and the sources they pull from can be agenda driven. The amount of false information that has to be weeded through to be informed is the problem with our world. Politics should not be allowed to have any bearing on medical/scientific communities.
I understand that. I just think people should gather info from all types of sources and make up their own minds. That is why I did not take down the video as facebook has done. But I am also going to direct folks to alternative views if I know of them. There are many other articles on her which predate COVID-19, so she is not a recently controversial figure. And it gives pause as to who and why she is now being promoted.
As an attorney in practice in Los Angeles and Las Vegas for 30 years, there are parts of her legal journey I don't find credible - and yes, I have seen hundreds lie and exaggerate their legal experiences for effect or because they are "victims" or becuase they have a fear of the legal system and really don't understand how it works. I have also experienced folks who I did pro bono work for who claimed they never did it and were framed when the evidence was clearly contrary. But I am not here to silence the woman or to make anyone believe my point of view. Again, folks should research and then try and come to their own conclusions.
But I would urge everyone to remember that all "sides" seem to have an agenda they wish to promote and will utilize all sources to do it whether those sources are completely accurate or not, and I include the gov't and their experts in that statement. That is why we all need to do our own research, draw our own conclusions and then chart the path which is best for us while not deliberately infecting others.
-
ok I have a question, one I think we've danced around. I feel comfortable posting here whereas not on social media.
Stay at home and save lives.
OK does that imply I have a moral and civic obligation to do my best at social distancing? Sure. Does that mean if I unknowingly contract COVID and accidentally and unknowingly infect others that I am morally and maybe even legally responsible for their infection and potential death?
Honestly I don't think so. I am not killing those potentially impacted folks, COVID is.
Does that resonate with anyone else? Assuming I am doing the best I can (or at least making an effort) during these unprecedented times?
This question kind of struck me yesterday. It kind of depends on your definition of "responsible". Typhoid Mary was an asymptomatic carrier of Typhoid fever and is believed to have infected about 50 people, 5 of which died. Although she was never sued by anyone, she was forcibly quarantined for the better part of 3 decades. She was a cook and whenever someone fell ill with typhoid fever where she worked, she would quit without a forwarding address and begin a new job elsewhere. Was she responsible for their deaths, unknowingly or not? I am pretty sure the family members of those 5 people who died would feel she was responsible.
My understanding of COVID19 is that even if you fall ill, you are contagious for possibly up to a couple weeks before you start showing symptoms. Most of the people in the 20-50 year old range, go through it not knowing they even had it. That is the scary part to me. How easy it spreads because of the number of people that do not even know they are carriers. Unless you have underlying causes, (60+ years old, heart/lung disease, diabetes, obese, etc.), I don't think it is nearly as bad as initially thought for the average person. But it can be much more severe for those with certain pre-existing conditions. At least that is what I have gathered from reading about COVID19.
-
Kristin
Look her up on snopes.com
Snopes is not always reliable either. The political leanings of the owners are well documented and the sources they pull from can be agenda driven. The amount of false information that has to be weeded through to be informed is the problem with our world. Politics should not be allowed to have any bearing on medical/scientific communities.
There are many other articles on her which predate COVID-19, so she is not a recently controversial figure. And it gives pause as to who and why she is now being promoted.
I believe she has a book coming out, and that is why she has resurfaced. I do not know much about her other than she has had some controversial issues surrounding her. I think the overall take from the video I saw her in has nothing to do with her, but rather the doctors that dissent from the status quo of today's thinking are are being silenced. Science should never stop discussing and looking for alternative views and studying them. It also throws some legitimate shade on Fauci's dealings. I have never trusted life long bureaucrats and do not think any un-elected official should influence public policy to the degree that has occured.
-
I'm currently wine impaired, but I don't know what to make of this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqgus2R55XA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqgus2R55XA)
Saw that yesterday. It was removed from YouTube and then popped up again. I don't know quite how to respond. Will have to do some sleuthing on her. Very disturbing at the least. I'll bet one of the reasons the House wanted to get Fauci in for questioning was to broadside him with this?
-
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday that a survey showed that a "shocking" two-thirds of patients recently hospitalized for coronavirus became infected despite largely staying at home.
Hospitals were asked to document where their most recent COVID-19 patients had been staying before admission, Cuomo said, and 66 percent came from their own homes.
About 18 percent came from nursing homes, 4 percent from assisted-living facilities, 2 percent were homeless, 2 percent had been at other "congregate" settings, fewer than 1 percent were prison or jail inmates, and 8 percent were classified as "other."
"This is a surprise," the governor told reporters at the Feinstein Institutes for Medical Research in Manhasset, New York. "Sixty-six percent of the people were at home, which is shocking to us."
The data came from 113 hospitals reporting information on patients being treated over three recent days, according to state health officials.
"They're not working; they're not traveling," Cuomo said of these recently hospitalized coronavirus patients. "We were thinking that maybe we were going to find a higher percent of essential employees who were getting sick because they were going to work — that these may be nurses, doctors, transit workers. That's not the case. They were predominantly at home."
-
ok I have a question, one I think we've danced around. I feel comfortable posting here whereas not on social media.
Stay at home and save lives.
OK does that imply I have a moral and civic obligation to do my best at social distancing? Sure.
(A) Does that mean if I unknowingly contract COVID and accidentally and unknowingly infect others that I am morally and maybe even legally responsible for their infection and potential death?
Honestly I don't think so. (B) I am not killing those potentially impacted folks, COVID is.
Does that resonate with anyone else? Assuming I am doing the best I can (or at least making an effort) during these unprecedented times?
(A) If you suffer a health issue while driving and accidentally and unknowingly injure someone, are you responsible? Sure. Who else could be considered responsible? Legally responsible? As in a lawsuit? I don't know of a precedent.
(B) A novel defense. "I didn't kill him, the bullet did."
Pellet Fan and friendly debates are my two favorite pastimes. This thread lets me combine the two. Yay! ;D
-
I do not think you are responsible if you are driving and have a medical emergency and injure someone, I asked because of my defibrillator and both my doctor and attorney said no.
It was not due to my negligence, therefore it would be a long uphill climb for someone to hold me liable.
Not sure if it is 100% but it is what I was told from 2 professions that I think would have some knowledge in that regard.
I should clarify, I was not in an accident, I was just trying to get information in case it ever was the cause of something like that.
-
I was a coverage attorney for 30 years in California. If you drive drunk and kill someone, it is still an "accident" under your auto policy. The reasoning -- yeah, you intended to drink, you did not intend to kill. Did not agree with the reasoning, but it was the legal standard I had to live with and advise clients by.
-
I did not see Cuomo's news conference but, but it truly surprises me that they didn't spin it to their narrative with something like: Those infected at home had caught the virus because others that were not sheltering in place passed it on to them, which goes to show how sheltering in place can save lives.
-
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday that a survey showed that a "shocking" two-thirds of patients recently hospitalized for coronavirus became infected despite largely staying at home.
Hospitals were asked to document where their most recent COVID-19 patients had been staying before admission, Cuomo said, and 66 percent came from their own homes.
About 18 percent came from nursing homes, 4 percent from assisted-living facilities, 2 percent were homeless, 2 percent had been at other "congregate" settings, fewer than 1 percent were prison or jail inmates, and 8 percent were classified as "other."
"This is a surprise," the governor told reporters at the Feinstein Institutes for Medical Research in Manhasset, New York. "Sixty-six percent of the people were at home, which is shocking to us."
The data came from 113 hospitals reporting information on patients being treated over three recent days, according to state health officials.
"They're not working; they're not traveling," Cuomo said of these recently hospitalized coronavirus patients. "We were thinking that maybe we were going to find a higher percent of essential employees who were getting sick because they were going to work — that these may be nurses, doctors, transit workers. That's not the case. They were predominantly at home."
What do stay at home New Yorkers have in common:
Tight living accommodations, small apartments(most), common heating and a/c in many (so they are breathing the same air throughout the apartment building-at least in the older units). Very few areas of single unit housing. They might have been better off living outside with social gathering rules of separation?? I may not be totally correct but I suspect living at home for them is not the same as living at home for many of us. So I can't take that info with confidence in the implications. I doubt that there are many neighborhoods in NYC with single free standing homes. Also--if your most vulnerable people even stay at home, they will still probably produce a high number of victims because of their vulnerability. (Contradictions are welcome)
-
I have wondered the same thing about the NYC ill OkieSmokie for those that live in the city But some of the numbers for NYC also involve Long Island with single family homes. So much more info would be needed (and welcomed) in order to really analyze. But it does bring me back to a point I have made before -- one size does not necessarily fit all. Maybe they would have been better to let some of these folks travel to second homes or relatives out of the city, etc.
-
I think NYC is like the rest of the country in that many of the shelter in place people lived with an essential worker. I think very few people, as a percentage, were truly not in contact with anyone. That is why I have questioned these shut downs and were they really necessary or worth the destruction they have caused for the few that it truly sheltered. NYC is also shoulder to shoulder compared to the majority of the country and they were still using the subways as transportation. Some of those buildings hold more people than the majority of the towns in my area.
-
I go out every day.
As a part time driver - I get in about 10 hours a week.
When I'm not driving, I look for excuses to get out.
I'm a regular customer at Home Depot, Walgreens, & Wal-Mart.
I can't stand to just sit around the house and try to find something to keep me occupied.
Last Sunday morning I left home @ 5AM for Mears, Mi to take some photos with my drone. Lovely road trip. If anyone want to take a road trip, joust journey over to W.Michigan and I'll find us a picnic table. Probably JDMessner will join in.
-
Stats from MN:
534 total deaths as of yesterday. 434 of those (about 81%) are from people in nursing homes. 26 deaths yesterday. 25 of the 26 were people in nursing homes. Of the 26 deaths yesterday 10 were in their 90's, 9 were in their 80's, 5 in their 70's and two in their 60's. 68% of the MN deaths are from Hennepin County (Minneapolis metro). Of all the MN deaths only 15% required hospitalization (which means 85% did not).
I would guess these stats are very similar across the country.
So why are we under lock-down again?
Lock-downs will be lifted across the country NOT because of science and medical reasons but because of the huge budget shortfalls that the states are experiencing and when polling shows it may effect them come the November election. THEN the lock-downs will be lifted.
Al
-
ok I have a question, one I think we've danced around. I feel comfortable posting here whereas not on social media.
Stay at home and save lives.
OK does that imply I have a moral and civic obligation to do my best at social distancing? Sure.
(A) Does that mean if I unknowingly contract COVID and accidentally and unknowingly infect others that I am morally and maybe even legally responsible for their infection and potential death?
Honestly I don't think so. (B) I am not killing those potentially impacted folks, COVID is.
Does that resonate with anyone else? Assuming I am doing the best I can (or at least making an effort) during these unprecedented times?
(A) If you suffer a health issue while driving and accidentally and unknowingly injure someone, are you responsible? Sure. Who else could be considered responsible? Legally responsible? As in a lawsuit? I don't know of a precedent.
(B) A novel defense. "I didn't kill him, the bullet did."
Pellet Fan and friendly debates are my two favorite pastimes. This thread lets me combine the two. Yay! ;D
I appreciate the response, PF is indeed a place for friendly debates. But in the case of the gun, I would have pulled the trigger and the bullet would have killed. I'm responsible. In this (albeit theoretical) case I have done absolutely nothing but ... grocery shopping? And COVID maybe stowed away on me?
I really think there is something here, and I'm not sure I'm articulating myself properly. I am my brothers keeper. Great, but does that include responsibility for this microbe we call a virus? Unknowingly using me a vessel to infect others? I'd argue it's quite a bit different than the bullet killed defense.
-
But in the case of the gun, I would have pulled the trigger and the bullet would have killed. I'm responsible. In this (albeit theoretical) case I have done absolutely nothing but ... grocery shopping? And COVID maybe stowed away on me?
I don't believe that things just happen. I think, in every case, someone caused them to happen through action or inaction. Granted, the event may be unintentional. So now I have to decide if, in this case, there's a link between cause and accountability or blame.
I think that the Spanish explorers who unintentionally introduced mosquitoes to other parts of the world by transporting them in their water casks were to blame because they transported the stow-away larvae.
-
Interesting train of thought Paul. So should we not explore? Should we not be in space right now? We may be transporting things to other planets or the solar system by having craft in space.
-
Interesting train of thought Paul. So should we not explore? Should we not be in space right now? We may be transporting things to other planets or the solar system by having craft in space.
Yes, we might be. And we would be at fault if we didn't take the necessary precautions to not carry microbes to other planets.
It seems to me that I read that the plains Indians were susceptible to smallpox that was brought to them, initially by accident. Those settlers didn't plan to spread smallpox that they carried, but they did. I view them as being to blame for a smallpox epidemic.
-
Interesting train of thought Paul. So should we not explore? Should we not be in space right now? We may be transporting things to other planets or the solar system by having craft in space.
And we would be at fault if we didn't take the necessary precautions to not carry microbes to other planets.
But there were no precautions settlers could take via smallpox, there were no vaccines or knowledge of diseases and how they work. The only thing they could do is not come to America to start with. Same with space. What if we believe we are doing everything we can, but we still transmit something. We are humans, not perfect, so our knowledge is not perfect.
Also, veneral disease was transmitted to Europe via native American tribes. In some cases, women may have slept with men willingly, in some cases I am sure it was rape. Are the women who transmitted the disease at fault, or the men who slept with them? If it was transmitted via consensual sex, does that make the woman native American responsible?
-
I am playing devil's advocate a bit but it seems to me, if you did not know the gun was loaded (you are a carrier of COVID-19 unknowingly), and you pull the trigger (choose to not wear a mask in public places with a high density of people), you are not responsible for the damage the bullet does (who you infect with the virus).
-
I am playing devil's advocate a bit but it seems to me, if you did not know the gun was loaded (you are a carrier of COVID-19 unknowingly), and you pull the trigger (choose to not wear a mask in public places with a high density of people), you are not responsible for the damage the bullet does (who you infect with the virus).
Ah but the rule is that the gun is always loaded!
-
I guess I am in the "assumption of the risk" category.
Unless you have been living in a cave somewhere, we as a society are pretty well informed about all aspects of COVID-19. We also have so many means of truly just staying in our bubbles if we so choose -- communication by phone and computer, home entertainment options (heck, I can take classes at Oxford University if I wish),drive-thru pharmacies, groceries either delivered or ordered on-line and brought to your car, doctors by computer consultation. You do not have to have any contact with anyone if you do not feel safe venturing out. So, if you venture out, you assume a certain risk. Again, I believe in a level of personal responsibilty for your own safety.
-
But there were no precautions settlers could take via smallpox, there were no vaccines or knowledge of diseases and how they work.
True. But as I wrote, "Those settlers didn't plan to spread smallpox that they carried, but they did." Since they spread the disease, I view them as being to blame for spreading it. Who else would you blame? Or don't you blame anyone?
So, I submit that space explorers will be at fault if they take a disease to another planet.
-
But there were no precautions settlers could take via smallpox, there were no vaccines or knowledge of diseases and how they work.
True. But as I wrote, "Those settlers didn't plan to spread smallpox that they carried, but they did." Since they spread the disease, I view them as being to blame for spreading it. Who else would you blame? Or don't you blame anyone?
So, I submit that space explorers will be at fault if they take a disease to another planet.
So I assume you are withdrawing the qualifier :"if we didn't take the necessary precautions" from your space answer? And I assume those native American women who gave Europeans veneral disease are also to blame for its spread.
And no, I don't blame anyone for the spread of disease. It is a disease, it does what it is suppose to do -- spread and harm. We are humans, we do what we are supposed to do -- live. I don't look for villians and victims in all aspects of life, especially naturally occuring ones. We have enough real manmade evil that we can confront and overcome as society to not voluntarily take on more blaming people for things that just arise as part of how society develops.
But it also raises interesting questions re "natural selection" and "survival of the fittest". I will claim virtual ignorance on these theories, but isn't a disease spreading and killing just that? So shouldn't scientists just say this is all part of how things evolve and develop -- it is biology (or whatever branch of science applies)?
-
I don't have a dog in this fight but, it's one thing to spread a disease when you don't know about it, it's another story if you know about it and still potentially spread it by disregarding safety measures. We all know about this disease and IMHO, we all should do everything that we possibly can to help keep it under control. :2cents:
-
I don't have a dog in this fight but, it's one thing to spread a disease when you don't know about it, it's another story if you know about it and still potentially spread it by disregarding safety measures. We all know about this disease and IMHO, we all should do everything that we possibly can to help keep it under control. :2cents:
I have to agree but at which point do we ascertain this is safe? If we could all get tested that might be one thing but it is potentially on the horizon, in the meantime we are wreaking havoc on so many people. Something has to give. Back to The Who’s on first.
-
I don't look for villians and victims in all aspects of life, especially naturally occuring ones. We have enough real manmade evil that we can confront and overcome as society to not voluntarily take on more blaming people for things that just arise as part of how society develops.
We may not have the same definition of naturally occurring. I believe that global warming has dramatically changed weather patterns. By extension I believe that a group of people who caused global warming and those who ignored global warming warnings are to blame when a tornado levels a city in a part of the country that hasn't previously had tornadoes. One person might say, "That's naturally occurring." I say, "Not in my view, those people changed the weather. It's no longer natural."
So, back to the heart of the discussion. I think that a person that spreads a disease by not taking known effective precautions can be blamed for the spread. You don't. I'm okay with that.
-
I don't look for villians and victims in all aspects of life, especially naturally occuring ones. We have enough real manmade evil that we can confront and overcome as society to not voluntarily take on more blaming people for things that just arise as part of how society develops.
We may not have the same definition of naturally occurring. I believe that global warming has dramatically changed weather patterns. By extension I believe that a group of people who caused global warming and those who ignored global warming warnings are to blame when a tornado levels a city in a part of the country that hasn't previously had tornadoes. One person might say, "That's naturally occurring." I say, "Not in my view, those people changed the weather. It's no longer natural."
So, back to the heart of the discussion. I think that a person that spreads a disease by not taking known effective precautions can be blamed for the spread.
You don't. I'm okay with that.
But are the precautions we are being told to take known effective precautions?
In my opinion they are not, Not when 2/3 of all new cases in New York are from people that are staying home and following the alleged effective precautions.
Not when you take into account the fact that from the beginning the CDC stated that wearing a mask would not slow the spread among the general public and only changed their stance when pressured to do so.
My workplace has mandated that we wear masks, not because it is an effective precaution but because the vocal majority of our customers think it is.
When I go places away from work I do not wear a mask unless the place I go mandates it. And in the few places that I have gone a vast majority of people are not wearing masks.
-
If in fact the primary method that the virus gets spread is from air borne particles from the mouth/nose, then it's only common sense that we wear mask both to protect us from others and to protect others from us. As for the stay-at-home infections, it just demonstrates how volatile this virus is. The virus didn't just hatch in their homes, someone unknowingly brought it in.
-
But are the precautions we are being told to take known effective precautions?
In my opinion they are not, Not when 2/3 of all new cases in New York are from people that are staying home and following the alleged effective precautions.
Not when you take into account the fact that from the beginning the CDC stated that wearing a mask would not slow the spread among the general public and only changed their stance when pressured to do so.
My workplace has mandated that we wear masks, not because it is an effective precaution but because the vocal majority of our customers think it is.
When I go places away from work I do not wear a mask unless the place I go mandates it. And in the few places that I have gone a vast majority of people are not wearing masks.
Of course it will not be effective if we don't comply. The reason 2/3 of new cases in NY are people who "suppose" to stay home is because they are not staying home. When people go out they are not wearing masks and/or staying 6 feet from people. You said it yourself you don't wear a mask unless it is mandated.
One thing about us Americans, we don't want to be told what to do no matter if it is good for us or not. I guess that is why we have the greatest number of case in the world. We have over 5x the number compared to the second worst which is Spain. :'(
-
Add the populations of the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy and you get about the same pop as the US. Then compare number of cases confirmed and number of deaths.
-
Well, the absolute safest method is to stay at home always -- don't go out, order by computer, have stuff delivered so I would think an awful lot of folks out there shopping in masks would just do that -- stay at home and you don't need to worry about waring a mask or worry about folks not wearing a mask. Or at least I wish the mask wearers would stay 6 ft away. But they seem to believe their masks make them invincible and they don't observe the 6 ft -- another reason I don't like masks. It is a prop that promotes a false sense of safety.
-
Not sure when this was actually recorded, but it just goes to show those we are to believe and trust to lead us down this road, truly have no clue.
https://youtu.be/jxqH4pAeuaQ
-
Add the populations of the UK, France, Germany, Spain and Italy and you get about the same pop as the US. Then compare number of cases confirmed and number of deaths.
OK let's look at Countries who are larger. In the US we have 330 Million people. In India there are 1.3 Billion and in China there are 1.4 Billion. We have 21x the number of cases to India and 15x to China. If based on the numbers we should have way less than both China and India.
Now I don't believe we should be on total lockdown, BUT we all need to work together to control the virus. If that is wearing masks, washing hands, using sanitizers, and/or staying 6 feet from others, we all can do this. That is if we want to.
-
Well, if you think that China is being honest about their cases, then you may also believe that they are being honest about human rights abuses.
With respect to India, have you ever traveled in the country? I have. The majority of people don't have running water or indoor plumbing. Do you think they are actually able to seek medical care when they can't afford to feed their kids and live in areas where the nearest doctor is a hundred miles away? Or accurately test and count the sick?
At least use countries which have the medical ability and political transparency to be truthful about results.
Again, if you want to be absolutely safe stay at home, there are plenty of mechanisms in place to allow one to do that in comfort.
-
Really does it matter what country we compare our numbers against? The fact is we have this virus in the US and we have to deal with it. Clearly some people in the US don't believe anything they are being told and will never believe anything unless the views are like theirs. I'm not saying you are this way.
Clearly some people want to do what they want. If the recommendation is to wear masks and social distance, people aren't going to do this. Heck we have people arming themselves with military gear demanding the country open back up. Hey only in America
-
Clearly some people in the US don't believe anything they are being told and will never believe anything unless the views are like theirs.
That is certainly true of a percentage and always has been true of a certain percentage. But I think the majority are perhaps just becoming much more wary of what "experts" and politicians are saying because they seem to change course a lot and be wrong a lot. And each side hates the other and uses any means, including public health, to strike at the other. And the media plays everything up to scare people because that results in a lot of clicks. So I just think people are being tired and wary of all of this.
The masks are one example. For months, no need for these, these won't protect, don't hoard them, you don't need them. Now it is wear them, but they still won't protect you without social distancing, that is the real protector -- and by the way, we told you you didn't need them because we needed them for medical people and didn't want the public taking them. But now you can make or buy cloth ones, so yeah, we will now pretend we really care about your health.
And projections of illness and death are another example. I saw a good article yesterday. Gov Gavin Newsome, on March 18, told the federal gov't that within 8 weeks (i.e. May 13) they projected roughly 56% of Californians would be infected -- about 25.5 million people -- and they would have 255,000 deaths. That was with a shut down and masks and social distancing, etc. I am sure he had experts providing him with those numbers. As of this morning, May 11, Calif has 66,680 cases and 2,745 deaths. And this type of over estimation is happening every place. Folks aren't stupid and they begin to wonder whether their leaders and experts are just this out to lunch or are they trying to manipulate them. Either scenario does not built confidence. And I think sometimes leaders overstate to either give dramatic emphasis or to scare folks into compliance, but you face a backlash -- which is what I think is happening now.
And the media really stokes the fire. Nearly all across the board, the majority of deaths (nearly 85%) are in the old and sick -- mainly over 70 with major health issues. Nursing homes are hotbeds and just devasted. But we rarely hear that 75% of the cases in Virginia are in nursing homes. Instead they deliberately pick up and run with stories of younger people who have died -- and at least two of the stories involving teenagers have now been shown to not be true and they did not die of COVID-19.
We, as a nation, did not have a lot of trust in our political leaders -- of either party -- before this happened. And yeah, it is easy to pile on the President and I would be the first one to agree that a lot of his policies are bad and dangerous -- but I started believing that in May 2019 when he dismantled the CDC pandemic unit and I did not hear an uproar from the other side of the aisle or a call for an investigation or other review. And the House Intelligence Comm gets much of the same info about threats, like this virus, as the President does. So where were they in Nov and Dec 2019? Oh, I forgot, they were concentrated on holding an impeachment proceeding that everyone knew had no chance of being "won" instead of focusing on protecting the country. And Nancy Pelosi was touring SF Chinatown restaurants on Feb 24 encouraging folks to come out and support those businesses. She now tries to back peddle saying she was only doing it to combat the President's rascism towards the Chinese and that everyone knew the virus was dangerous and sprending at that time and she is critical of Trump for not taking action earlier. Huh? Just admit that you didn't think this was that big a deal either Nancy and you were still trying to strike back from the impeachment loss. To do what you are doing just makes people doubt you more.
So yeah, I don't trust any of them, including experts who may have their own agendas because they hate Trump and hate the cuts he made to important depts and they are humans with their own biases. Sorry, being a doctor or in public health doesn't make you an angel. So I will continue to do my own research. But I think they should all pay attention to the fact that they are all losing standing in the view of a lot of Americans.
-
Alabama is opening up more and more. Below is what opened today. It is time. Beaches, hotels, businesses were opened a week ago.
"Gov. Kay Ivey announced the loosening of restrictions last week. Businesses including restaurants, hair salons, bars, breweries and gymnasiums can reopen Monday with rules including crowd limits and cleaning requirements."
-
I have said it before, masks are not mandatory in Texas. I went into 2 businesses this weekend. I picked up takeout at a local restaurant that I really like and 2 out of 4 employees were wearing masks. The last time I was there, everyone wore a mask. This time the "bosses" chose not to, but the grunt workers in the kitchen wore theirs. I also had some speakers installed in my daughter's car. 3 employees and 3 customers in the building. I was the only one wearing a mask correctly. One other customer had his mask over his chin, but not covering his nose or mouth. I guess it is time to give up on the masks. It appears San Antonio, Texas is "ready"...
-
So yeah, I don't trust any of them, including experts who may have their own agendas because they hate Trump and hate the cuts he made to important depts and they are humans with their own biases. Sorry, being a doctor or in public health doesn't make you an angel. So I will continue to do my own research. But I think they should all pay attention to the fact that they are all losing standing in the view of a lot of Americans.
You can believe as many or as little number of people you want. The fact of the matter is we have the virus here in the US. That's not political, made up, or fantasy. Either we try to control it or not. I'm in the try and control it camp. I'm also in the camp where I hold the medical professionals at the highest level. Being on the front line of this pandemic put you in a special category in my eyes. Maybe in your eyes they aren't angels, but in my eyes they are.
-
I whole heartily agree with triplebq. Even though this topic seems to be heading in that direction, the virus doesn't have a party affiliation, it attacks all races and genders. I spent a number of years in cooperate management and one thing that I learned is, don't shoot the messenger, in this case the doctors etc. are the messengers that we need to listen to. In my opinion, if we as a country do not attack this virus with a united effort, it's defeat will be a long way off. You can't effectively wage a war with 50 different game plans on interconnected similar battle fields.
-
But which Doctors do you listen to?
-
Any person trained in the medical profession knows more than I do, but I'd believe the one with the most likelihood of getting it right. If you want the the best chance at survival, I don't believe that ignoring them is an option. :2cents:
-
Do medical malpractice for a while. Have bad faith cases where doctors lie under oath to win and then admit it after the fact -- and not in just one, singular instance. Maybe it taints a person's perception, I will freely cop to that. They are human, they make mistakes, they do things wrong, they have biases -- oh, did I mention they are human?
-
The problem is the expert doctors that everyone is to believe don't seem to have a clue, they go back and forth on what helps and what does not. So how would a person actually filter through and figure out what is actually the truth? Not to mention that for every doctor that tells you one thing you will find another doctor to state the exact opposite. It seems to be a poke and hope situation at best.
I think that this year is going to be pretty much messed up for the entirety and into the next, and not 100% because of the virus, but because we are having our minds conditioned to our current lifestyles becoming the "New Normal". We already have people saying that the 2020-2021 school year may not happen. I do believe that yes there is illness, but I am not convinced it is as bad as those in charge and the media make it out to be. The numbers that come in are no where in line with what they have been telling us they would be, and they are already planting the seeds in our minds that we are going to go through this again this fall and again next spring.
I do believe that the elections for the year need to be delayed, we are moving primary dates I say just move the main elections off until next year, they seem to have enough issues with in person voting and accurate counts,, i can not imagine how you would get n accurate mail in count.
-
I do believe that the elections for the year need to be delayed, we are moving primary dates I say just move the main elections off until next year
Don’t count on that, it would be extremely cumbersome to say the least. Would require changing a federal law, getting it through Congress, signed by the president and through all the inevitable court challenges.
-
they are already planting the seeds in our minds that we are going to go through this again this fall and again next spring.
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
-
they are already planting the seeds in our minds that we are going to go through this again this fall and again next spring.
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
What is sad that even if you do learn from it, we have no choice our leaders will make the choice for us. We elect them to be our voice and they do as they want.
-
We elect them to be our voice and they do as they want.
I'm not very bright but I'm sure that it's better than not having them elected.
-
they are already planting the seeds in our minds that we are going to go through this again this fall and again next spring.
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
People actually have tp know history, and know it accurately, for that statement to have any effect.
-
Most people can remember back to this past April.
-
>And projections of illness and death are another example. I saw a good article yesterday.
>Gov Gavin Newsome, on March 18, told the federal gov't that within 8 weeks (i.e. May 13)
>they projected roughly 56% of Californians would be infected -- about 25.5 million people --
>and they would have 255,000 deaths. That was with a shut down and masks and social distancing, etc.
>I am sure he had experts providing him with those numbers.
Those were the estimates if nothing had been done - the worst case scenario that was modeled before any closures. He didn't just pull the numbers out of thin air but should have given more context.
-
Would we have adopted these stay at home policies if 90% or those dying were under the age of 6?
I believe the stay at home policy was put in place to protect everyone regardless of the age of those dying. Not sure why it would be otherwise.
Do you feel if kids under 6 were the ones dying we wouldn't have a stay at home order?
-
Most people can remember back to this past April.
Well, when I studied history, a minimum of 60 years had to pass to actually be considered history. It gave people time to reflect and study and consider actions and not be swept up in the emotions and feelings of the moment -- perspective you know versus something like hysteria.
-
Yes. You come in contact with a lot of kids under 6 on a day to day basis, work, shopping, socializing?
Do you feel if kids under 6 were the ones dying we wouldn't have a stay at home order?
Sorry but this blows my mind that one would think if the kids were the ones dying from the virus, we wouldn't have a stay at home order.
-
History: "the whole of time before the present, and all things that happened in that time"
-
History: "the whole of time before the present, and all things that happened in that time"
Guess it is the difference between a defintion and serious study of the subject. But definitions do have to simplify things for people, so I can see that.
-
You did not answer my question.
Yes. You come in contact with a lot of kids under 6 on a day to day basis, work, shopping, socializing?
Do you feel if kids under 6 were the ones dying we wouldn't have a stay at home order?
Sorry but this blows my mind that one would think if the kids were the ones dying from the virus, we wouldn't have a stay at home order.
Sorry but my response is as stated. Me being in contact with kids daily doesn't change my thought at all.
-
I have a question I am perplexed by and will try not to be too long winded.
I keep hearing about lack of testing.
I live in the Ozarks of rural Arkansas.
There are two drive through testing sites, one 15 minutes from me, one 45 minutes from me.
Friday May 1st, I drove past the one 45 minutes from me, a nurse was sitting at a table, no cars in lot.
Due to my line of work, and having been in and out of downtown New Orleans twice since March, I have
been distancing myself from friends that I normally check in on (elderly) when at home, and feel guilty about it.
So when I passed back by the testing place on my way home, nurse was at table, no cars in lot, I stopped.
I asked is this for anyone or do I have to be referred by Dr.? She says no it's for anyone. Asked if I am having any symptoms.
I say no, but am concerned due to being in and out of New Orleans and around a lot of people. I would like to be tested.
A minute later a Dr. comes out, asks me pretty much what I had already stated, I get swabbed. (OUCH!)
Monday morning I get a call, I am negative for Covid, Pneumonia, Flu and a couple other things.
Where is this lack of testing?
Or is it people not taking the initiative to be tested?
As I said, I'm perplexed.
And this is only one thing that disturbs me on this whole "pandemic".
-
In Virginia, at present, you have to go to a doctor to be tested and I understand that you either have to present with symptoms or have some other reason (like your N. O. trip) in order for doc to test because we still face a "rationing" of tests. May have something to do with our population size, I am not sure.
They also had problems in the state getting the lab results -- took a long time, got backed up, etc. They still have folks in the hospital presumably suffering from COVID-19 and are waiting for their test results. I don't know why there is a difference from state to state.
-
Same thing here in Manhattan or Topeka KS.
Symptoms or they won't test, that was as of this morning?
-
I am sorry, but if the picture in the link below is accurate as to how far into your nasal cavity they have to swab, I ain't getting tested unless a need arises.
https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/coronavirus-testing.html
-
You don't want to answer the question, that is fine.
I did answer your question. I'm in contact with my kids daily. This is what I wrote
"Sorry but my response is as stated. Me being in contact with kids daily doesn't change my thought at all."
-
I am sorry, but if the picture in the link below is accurate as to how far into your nasal cavity they have to swab, I ain't getting tested unless a need arises.
https://health.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/coronavirus-testing.html
The new tests now available or soon to be only require saliva. And are said to be reliable.
-
Do the tests which say if you are positive also indicate whether you have had it in the past -- i.e. you would not test positive for an active case but you would show you have had it? I would be more interested in knowing if I have had it - because if I have, it was a sleeper virus for sure.
-
The test I took does not tell you if you have had it.
And the picture does not do the what it feels like justice :D
Felt like they were hitting my brain and have to hold it there.
-
The President will be within 10 miles of my house on Thursday to visit a medical equipment distributor.
-
I am sorry, but if the picture in the link below is accurate as to how far into your nasal cavity they have to swab, I ain't getting tested unless a need arises.
I was tested using a nasal swab for RT-PCR. The picture seems off. The swab is around 6 or 7 inches long. They made me tilt my head as far back as I could and then they inserted it all the way through my nasal cavity and into the upper part of my throat. Then while rotating it, they slowly removed it.
Not really painful, but definitely made me uncomfortable.
In my case, the results came back negative, but I am still fighting the symptoms.
-
Do the tests which say if you are positive also indicate whether you have had it in the past -- i.e. you would not test positive for an active case but you would show you have had it? I would be more interested in knowing if I have had it - because if I have, it was a sleeper virus for sure.
Kristin,
The RT-PCR (nasal swab) tests report if you presently have it, but not if you've had it in the past.
To check if you've had it in the past, it is a simple finger prick and the blood drop is sent out for antibody testing.
-
No. I said "You come in contact with a lot of kids under 6 on a day to day basis, work, shopping, socializing?
Not sure how clearer I can make this for you. Yes I come into contact with kids under 6 on a day to day basis. Not sure why that is so hard to understand.
-
Thanks for the various responses on the testing. I would be interested in an antibody test just out of pure curiosity, but have not heard about those being given in Virginia yet.
-
I just ordered some Steelers, Mets, and Flyers face masks as it looks like this is going to be a while before we will be allowed in public without them and I will have them in case I need them in the Fall/Winter again. If I am going to have to wear one, I may as well be sporting my favorite teams.
-
My wife is going into surgery tomorrow (elective, nothing serious) and she was required to be tested for coronavirus yesterday. All she did was go to a drive through and spit into a cup that looks like a pee cup.
-
I just ordered some Steelers, Mets, and Flyers face masks as it looks like this is going to be a while before we will be allowed in public without them and I will have them in case I need them in the Fall/Winter again. If I am going to have to wear one, I may as well be sporting my favorite teams.
As of tomorrow it is my understanding that masks are suggested not required. But then I am in Somerset county we move to yellow, which oddly enough doesn't seem a whole lot different than red.
-
My wife is going into surgery tomorrow (elective, nothing serious) and she was required to be tested for coronavirus yesterday. All she did was go to a drive through and spit into a cup that looks like a pee cup.
That sounds a whole lot better than that diagram. I am not in a category to be concerned about the virus, but I sure would be concerned about that test up the nose!
-
I just ordered some Steelers, Mets, and Flyers face masks as it looks like this is going to be a while before we will be allowed in public without them and I will have them in case I need them in the Fall/Winter again. If I am going to have to wear one, I may as well be sporting my favorite teams.
As of tomorrow it is my understanding that masks are suggested not required. But then I am in Somerset county we move to yellow, which oddly enough doesn't seem a whole lot different than red.
We are still in red in Lehigh County for at least another two weeks, and yes, yellow is not much different than red IMO either.
-
Am I the only one in the country that didn't know that coronavirus and covid-19 were not the same thing? It seems that the terms are used interchangeably but I read that (novel) coronavirus is normally a mild flu like virus that when infected, can cause covid-19, an upper repertoire disease. ???
-
I thought coronavirus refered to a whole category of viruses including SARS and MERS and COVID-19 was a referance to this specific virus.
-
Am I the only one in the country that didn't know that coronavirus and covid-19 were not the same thing? It seems that the terms are used interchangeably but I read that (novel) coronavirus is normally a mild flu like virus that when infected, can cause covid-19, an upper repertoire disease. ???
If a person contracts the novel corona virus (SARS-CoV-2), the result is the disease called COVID-19. That is what I have read anyways.
-
I thought coronavirus refered to a whole category of viruses including SARS and MERS and COVID-19 was a referance to this specific virus.
I believe that "coronavirus" is the category that that family of respiratory viruses belong to. Covid 19, Sars and Mers are the specific viruses in that category. So you are correct (if I am). In fact if I am correct, many of the common "colds" are in the same general category but just aren't as virulent. Also, if I am correct, then why have we not had a effort to provide vaccines for the common "cold". Probably because it is not a threat, and because these viruses mutate so often as to not make a vaccine worth the effort it would take to update it so often. All of this is my opinion.
-
I found this on the internet at CDC.gov. "On February 11, 2020 the World Health Organization announced an official name for the disease that is causing the 2019 novel coronavirus outbreak, first identified in Wuhan China. The new name of this disease is coronavirus disease 2019, abbreviated as COVID-19." ???
-
I found this on the internet at CDC.gov. "On February 11, 2020 the World Health Organization announced an official name for the disease that is causing the 2019 novel coronavirus outbreak, first identified in Wuhan China. The new name of this disease is coronavirus disease 2019, abbreviated as COVID-19." ???
Yes, COVID-19 is the disease caused by the virus. Much like AIDS is the disease caused by Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)
-
Based on where we are now with relation to the current information, the slow re-opening etc. Has anyone's opinion changed ?
-
I doubt it. I'd venture 1/2 the people that are regular posters here are nearing retirement age or older, and as such, are more susceptible to CV. It falls in line with the poll where about 1/2 the people are ready to get back to some type of normalcy and the other 1/2 are not.
My opinion has not changed, but I voted yes anyway.
-
Mine hasn't changed.
Every time I go out I see people not social distancing and not wearing mask. I will let others venture out first and be very careful where I go. I will still do restaurant pickup, eat in the car at times, do grocery pickup from Walmart, etc.
In my area where I live we have seen a spike in the numbers (as we start to open), but that is to be expected in my opinion. As soon as those start to even out a bit I will reaccess.
-
We went for a mid-afternoon meal at a seafood restaurant here in Tulsa. Our first meal outside of our house (except for one at our kids house last week). Everyone working was masked and gloved, and the tables were appropriately spaced. No condiments on the tables, but they were brought in sterile packets when requested. We kept our own masks on until seated. Only a couple of other customers at 3 pm.--all seated far from us. Great meal of grilled salmon, hush puppies, slaw and beans.
Plan is now to investigate before we eat out for places like this one. ???
-
I am ready, but unfortunately some doctors are not. Not to overshare too much, but a year and a half ago, I had a growth which appeared fairly suddenly on my calf. I thought it was some type of big mole or maybe a cyst and wasn't too bothered, but Bentley said I should have it checked out. It turned out to be cancer, a Squamous Cell Carcinoma. It was about 2 mos from discovery to removal; it was outptient, but they took a good sized divet from my calf and I still have an indentation. I was lucky that it was still in the early stages because I guess it can get nasty if it goes untreated. So I also had to be examined for other skin cancers and two basal cells carcs were discovered and removed.
So, I now have to go every 6 months for skin check-ups. My 6 mo appt was supposed to be this morning. The doctor's office called yesterday and canceled and said they don't know when she will be back to seeing patients, but they will call. So, hope nothing is growing, but who knows. I may survive the COVID-19 outbreak, but die of a skin cancer that wasn't caught in time because doctors didn't want to practice in this environment.
I am grateful that my GP doesn't feel this way, because yesterday I had to go in because I had a red spot on my back and Bentley thought he removed a tick from my clothing about 4 days ago, but could not be sure. My GP wanted me in immediately -- bless her! Turns out there was a tick attached to me in the center of that red spot and I have all the classic signs of Lyme disease so went on an immediate treatment plan. So many things can happen to us in life, I figure I just need to live.
-
Sorry to hear that, do they think that they caught the lyme disease early enough? I obviously have heard of it but zero experience and as far as I know, no one I know has had it.
-
Sorry to hear that, do they think that they caught the lyme disease early enough? I obviously have heard of it but zero experience and as far as I know, no one I know has had it.
It seems to be within the first 4 to 5 days, so they were happy with that and I am hopeful for a very good outcome because of early intervention. I am grateful to a doctor who is physically having office hours because I don't know how else she could have seen a small tick in my body.
-
I have had 2 virtual doctor visits and 2 in office visits (blood draws). My eye doctor just sent out an email saying they are now open. They have implemented procedures to help mitigate the virus. I think this is going to be the norm for a while.
-
Best of luck to you in staying healthy, Kristin!
I was supposed to have a regular 6 month checkup with my doctor tomorrow. They called yesterday, and I postponed it until August. I feel no different then I did when I was there six months ago and do not need any prescription refills at this time so I didn't see the need to risk going to the office.
-
It was a different experience. You had prelim stuff over the phone, then had to sit in your car where a staff member came out and "checked you in", then sit in your car until they were reday to put you in the exam room. Limited contact with folks for sure.
-
We went to our local Costco (The Woodlands, Houston) earlier today. The checkout lines extended from the checkout to the rear of the store and people had carts loaded as if the world was coming to an end. Our needs were not overly critical so we backed out of there. We have been trying to work out why the craziness today as our son went yesterday and said the checkout was a breeze.
-
I'm about to head to our local grocery store, Weis, in about an hour. Hopefully, it is not pandemonium like you had at Costco in the Houston suburbs.
-
Bentley, that was our best guess. Can't blame people for wanting to get some normalcy back into their lives and Memorial Day is as good a day as any to start.
-
I was scheduled to have cataract surgery the same week that all elective surgery was cancelled here in Virginia. When I got the call cancelling the surgery I was pretty mad (I had waited 2 months to get a surgery date). But once I started seeing all the Covid-19 cases being reported in James City County I was actually relieved that I had not gone into the hospital. Two months later I am ecstatic that I am having one eye fixed tomorrow and the second one in two weeks. I don't think there is much risk in a hospital setting now and I really want my eyesight back. The hospital protocols are really strict-my wife has to wait in the parking lot until I am released. Only patients are allowed into outpatient surgery.
-
those hospital protocols seem to be the same protocols for all types of doctors offices and eye doctors here in PA too
was surprised out how out of stock the grocery store was in just about every aisle and type of food
-
I am ready, but unfortunately some doctors are not. Not to overshare too much, but a year and a half ago, I had a growth which appeared fairly suddenly on my calf. I thought it was some type of big mole or maybe a cyst and wasn't too bothered, but Bentley said I should have it checked out. It turned out to be cancer, a Squamous Cell Carcinoma. It was about 2 mos from discovery to removal; it was outptient, but they took a good sized divet from my calf and I still have an indentation. I was lucky that it was still in the early stages because I guess it can get nasty if it goes untreated. So I also had to be examined for other skin cancers and two basal cells carcs were discovered and removed.
So, I now have to go every 6 months for skin check-ups. My 6 mo appt was supposed to be this morning. The doctor's office called yesterday and canceled and said they don't know when she will be back to seeing patients, but they will call. So, hope nothing is growing, but who knows. I may survive the COVID-19 outbreak, but die of a skin cancer that wasn't caught in time because doctors didn't want to practice in this environment.
I am grateful that my GP doesn't feel this way, because yesterday I had to go in because I had a red spot on my back and Bentley thought he removed a tick from my clothing about 4 days ago, but could not be sure. My GP wanted me in immediately -- bless her! Turns out there was a tick attached to me in the center of that red spot and I have all the classic signs of Lyme disease so went on an immediate treatment plan. So many things can happen to us in life, I figure I just need to live.
Kristin, sorry to hear about your recent health issues. Wishing you all the best for recovery, and a brighter future.