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[Bentley]

I am just getting around to trying the recipe. I guess my problem is the starter is to be used for the fermentation? I have no 30 g of starter so I'm curious if I need to make a.. let's see this is somewhat of a starter in itself but like I said I'm assuming the starter is used for fermentation cuz I don't see any yeast. You can't do this recipe without the 30 g of starter? I guess you could put in yeast but it kind of defeats the purpose of sticking to the recipe.  Also, is the central milling high mountain closer to a AP or bread flour?

[Free Mr. Tony]

The starter is 50/50 water and flour.  You could put 1.5g of active dry yeast in with 225g water and 225g flour in the first step of the recipe (that is taking the 15g of water and 15g of flour in the starter and adding it to the recipe.

I have not done this but believe it should come out similar but possibly with shorter rise times as sourdough is typically slower to ferment.

The high mountain flour is a high gluten bread flour. Hi gluten will definitely help your structure, but also will make it chewy if you use too much.

[Bentley]

Confused.  Right now I have 210g water and 210g flour, and about 50 beads of yeast (did that cuz I knew I did not have starter and assumed it had yeast in it) sitting covered in a bowl.  Pretty sure that is getting thrown out.

I assumed 1st step was to put 30g of starter (I am also assuming this is a separate item from next 2), 210g water and 210g bread flour. 

I am also assuming you make the starter by taking 1.5g of active dry yeast in with 225g water and 225g flour?  It would sit how long?  You would then add 30g of that to the 210 water and flour?

No wonder my breads don't work, I have 15 times the yeast in them then is needed!

This is the basic recipe for 2 loaves at 780-800 grams a piece.

30 g starter
210g water
210g king arthur bread flour

Let sit until double, about 8 to 12 hours.  Add this to:

The starter is 50/50 water and flour. You could put 1.5g of active dry yeast in with 225g water and 225g flour in the first step of the recipe (that is taking the 15g of water and 15g of flour in the starter and adding it to the recipe.

[Free Mr. Tony]

The starter is just natural leavening (no commercial yeast), which consists of a 1:1 ratio of flour and water. It's acts as the yeast, just not in the same form.

What is 50 beads of yeast equated to?  A quarter tsp? A half tsp? 

You should be fine with what you are doing. Once that doubles, just add the rest of the ingredients to that mixture. If you used too much yeast it will just double faster. Not a big deal.

[Bentley]

Even less, a half a pinch!  So should the 50/50 be left uncovered?  If I am hearing right, this bread has no added yeast?  Just what falls out of the sky?  Just trying to get on the same page.

What is 50 beads of yeast equated to?  A quarter tsp? A half tsp? 

[Free Mr. Tony]

Even less, a half a pinch!  So should the 50/50 be left uncovered?  If I am hearing right, this bread has no added yeast?  Just what falls out of the sky?  Just trying to get on the same page.

What is 50 beads of yeast equated to?  A quarter tsp? A half tsp? 

I usually lightly cover the original mix with a lid, but it probably doesn't have to be.

This recipe has no added yeast. Just natural starter. The baguette recipe I use basically follows the same principal, and it uses commercial yeast. A pinch in the 50/50 first mix and then another pinch when you mix the rest of the ingredients in. I would try that if I were in your shoes. Just add a pinch when you mix the rest.

[Bentley]

One last thing, as late as it is.  Will the starter last till the morning (should it be refridgerated?), or if I mix it all now, can I put it in fridge and bake tomorrow?

[Free Mr. Tony]

One last thing, as late as it is.  Will the starter last till the morning (should it be refridgerated?), or if I mix it all now, can I put it in fridge and bake tomorrow?

It will be fine in the fridge. If it's not at its peak tomorrow it will just take a little longer to rise.

[Bentley]

Well, I decided to mix tonight.  It took about 20 minutes to get to 78°.  Was still wet, so I tried to do the slap kneading.  That seemed to help, I added a touch more flour in my slap kneading.  I did not get to the stage that guy does on youtube, but I got closer then I ever have.  Tried the window paine, it seemed to work.  We see if the fridge Richards me!

[Free Mr. Tony]

Well, I decided to mix tonight.  It took about 20 minutes to get to 78°.  Was still wet, so I tried to do the slap kneading.  That seemed to help, I added a touch more flour in my slap kneading.  I did not get to the stage that guy does on youtube, but I got closer then I ever have.  Tried the window paine, it seemed to work.  We see if the fridge Richards me!

I use the fridge all the time. You are simply controlling the fermentation with temperature. It typically develops a bit more flavor with time in the fridge as well.

[Bentley]

Maybe before I die I will get it.  It is like learning to play guitar, after so many attempts at getting the fingers to go to the correct position and it not happening, easier just to quit!

I realize these were not proofed in the bannetons, as I don't have any. I also do not believe that would have made a difference with this dough.  I have to believe this dough in simply not as firm as it is supposed to be.  This photo is an 815g loaf on a baking sheet after a 45 min proof.  Flattened, like the dough is not firm enough, ehh? I simply knew it was not going to come out the way I want, so it is being turned into sandwich rolls.  I am led to believe by the internet that bread dough is 13-14% protein.  I see that King Arthur Bread dough is 12.7% not sure if that could be making the difference.  It obviously does not in FMT loaves.  So I am missing a component of why my dough will not hold shape.  When I figure that out, I will be there I believe.

Is it a correct assumption that the more you work/knead bread the stiffer the dough will become?  Can a dough be over kneaded?  I guess my next batch will be a 40 minute knead to to get a baseline.

[Free Mr. Tony]

A strong gluten network is formed by mixing, which enables the dough to trap more gas and be generally firmer. You can overmix and break the gluten network, but it's far more likely that you would undermix rather than overmix. If you overmix, the dough will start tearing and it's pretty obvious that it happened. I did it on the first run with the new mixer because I was unprepared for how well it mixes dough.

[02ebz06]

To me, 40 minutes seems like it would be an awful long time to knead dough.

Bentley, I know you've been trying different types of bread, but I would suggest you try one and stick with it until you get your procedure down and are happy with the results.
When you can reproduce the results consistently, then try another type.
Just my 

[Bentley]

Will try more kneading on the next go round and see.  These will be turned into croutons.

[Bentley]

Kind of thought that is what I was doing...

I have the no knead down.  I have sandwich rolls down, at least for me.  They are not the quality of others on here, but I am happy with them. Those are about the only others I have tried.  Can't seem to get the "artisan" bread though...kind of like a biscuit for me.  I will just keep trying.

Bentley, I know you've been trying different types of bread, but I would suggest you try one and stick with it until you get your procedure down and are happy with the results.
When you can reproduce the results consistently, then try another type.
Just my