Post by: Bentley on January 04, 2021, 01:20:07 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 04, 2021, 07:38:33 PM
Will you please post the recipe for the rolls. Those are exactly what I have been trying for years to duplicate and have failed every time. One more try can't hurt.
The recipe for hoagie rolls came out of Bread Illustrated which is an America's Test kitchen book. The recipe is like any other you will see. I've quickly learned with the new mixer that most of what I was making (and probably most people using kitchenaid or hands) was under mixed. Mix until it truly passes a window pane test. The dough literally comes out of my mixer in one long springy strand with a single pull, and is smooth and silky.
This random video looks like most of the dough I've made lately.
https://youtu.be/V3c_l1MkE0o
I typically work in grams but this book is not written that way which is super annoying, although I've made a ton of good recipes out of it.
27.5 ounces bread flour
4 tsp active dry yeast
1 Tbs salt
16 ounces water
3 Tbs olive oil
1 large egg
4 tsp sugar
Whisk flour, yeast, and salt together. Whisk the water, oil, egg and sugar together in a separate bowl.
Add wet to the dry. Mix until smooth and passes window pane. I usually mix about half the flour in first and get that nice and smooth before adding the rest.
Take out of the bowl and do a few slap and folds kind of like the video above to create a smooth ball. Let rise for an hour or so. Punch down. I made five 12 inch loaves. They were about 270 grams each. May go down to 250 next time.
Press each ball into a 4 inch square. Fold the top half down into the center of the square. Rotate 180 and do the same on the other side. Take the top again and fold all the way to the other side to make a cylinder. Roll the cylinder out with your hands to about 12 inches.
I bought these silicone inserts like we used to use when I worked at subway in highschool. They are awesome for this type of bread. Put them seam side down on whatever you are cooking on.
(https://i.imgur.com/rfWHE2fl.jpg)
Cover loosely with greased plastic wrap until well risen. If you poke one lightly the indentation should hold without bouncing back much or looking like it's going to want to fall.
I slashed down the middle before baking (not sure if that's necessary).
Bake at 350 for 30 to 35 minutes.
They come out super light and springy. After cooling you can pretty much flatten with your hands and it will spring back to full height.
I just made the recipe without any expectations of what it would be similar to. It is VERY similar to jersey mike's bread. I'm going to do some rosemary parmesan ones soon as that is what we usually get our jersey mike's on.
Let me know how it goes if you make them.
Post by: Kristin Meredith on January 04, 2021, 07:58:45 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 04, 2021, 08:06:37 PM
What is the window pane test?
When the dough is done mixing, you should be able to stretch a large hunk up with your hands like taffy. Gently start pulling that hunk apart until it's super thin and you can see through it like a window pane. If the dough tears, it's either under or over mixed. Usually under.
Not my picture. Just pulled from net
(https://i.imgur.com/YZKJclZl.png)
Post by: Bentley on January 04, 2021, 10:21:52 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 07, 2021, 07:52:27 PM
I would like to ask a couple of questions. When the dough is correctly "kneaded", how ever that maybe, i.e. hand, mixer...It should look and feel like the dough in the video? About how long are you kneading in the new mixer? No hand kneading at all?
I never seem to get the loaf forming correct either, but with my smaller trays, it will maybe be good practice for when the 12 inch forms get hear Sunday. What do you think, about 130g of dough? I see rise time, but for proofing, all I see is you need to be an Artisan baker to do it correctly. Any ball park on proof time?
In 61 years, I have never seen dough that looks like that video, I am looking forward to trying to accomplish that!
Had a Jersey Mikes #5 Super today, and for the 1st time ever, having a sandwich at Mikes was disappointing! Although, as I think about it as I type and look at their website, I believe I like the #13 Original Italian and I blew the order!
(https://i.imgur.com/MGhh18lh.jpg)
Post by: bregent on January 07, 2021, 08:17:59 PM
They work much better than the 'C' shaped hooks, but they only work on the KA Pro mixers - not the ones with the tilt up head like KSM.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 07, 2021, 08:32:59 PM
My mixer pretty much eliminates any need for hand mixing. If yours doesn't come out like that. I would rest 30 minutes. Do a couple slap folds like the video. Rest 30 again, and redo slap and folds. Each time you do it, it's strengthening the gluten. After 2 or 3 rest and folds, you should get there even if it doesn't come out of the mixer quite there.
I mix mine for maybe 4 minutes on low and 6 or 8 minutes on medium, but I don't know that it will translate to a kitchenaid. I take the dough temp with an infrared often and try to end around 74 degrees. This dough ended at 78 when it looked right. I believe if you stay under 80 you will be ok. It will rise faster the hotter it is at the end of the mix. My mixer actually creates alot of friction so I start with ice cold water. Water temp kind of just depends on your mixer but I would start pretty cold to give yourself extra mixing time without heating the dough too much.
The poke test is the best for proofing readiness. Maybe when they are an inch or inch and a half above the form in the center of the loaf is about what mine seemed to be. 130g sounds about right for that form. The recipe has alot of yeast, so maybe and hour or hour and a half at most.
I had seen commercial dough before and kind of had given up on it thinking I would ever achieve it. The mixer helps a ton but Ive seen tons of people do it by hand as well. Just more resting and folding.
Post by: Bentley on January 07, 2021, 09:02:04 PM
They work much better than the 'C' shaped hooks, but they only work on the KA Pro mixers - not the ones with the tilt up head like KSM.
Post by: BigDave83 on January 08, 2021, 10:49:04 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 08, 2021, 11:28:59 AM
Can I scale this recipe? The egg would be my issue I guess. I could convert or weigh all the other ingredients to grams.
Yeah. I always convert everything to bakers percentage. I forget the number but there is a standard gram conversion for a large egg. I'm sure it's not 100 percent accurate depending on the eggs but it's close enough for me.
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 11:51:10 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 08, 2021, 12:33:14 PM
Have you ever stored this dough for later use?
I freeze pizza dough for later use.
Good for several weeks.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 08, 2021, 01:12:42 PM
Have you ever stored this dough for later use?
Not this particular recipe. I've only made this once. I freeze the loaves after baking. What were you thinking of doing?
Like O2, I freeze dough balls for pizza so I would imagine it would be ok.
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 02:51:16 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 02:55:40 PM
Have you ever stored this dough for later use?
Not this particular recipe. I've only made this once. I freeze the loaves after baking. What were you thinking of doing?
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 02:58:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jP7ni6Eh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nbn8Okvh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 03:00:26 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/NEskVCTh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/NEskVCT)
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 04:01:22 PM
Time for more bread pudding!
(https://i.imgur.com/ne6D57Ih.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dxZWe0nh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xPBxZ0nh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KMfhWzJh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 04:23:12 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 08, 2021, 04:43:53 PM
Don't know if it will solve your problem or not...
In this article they are trying for the crispy crust, not a soft one, but explains how to make it soft.
"Once the bread is baked, turn off the oven. Transfer the bread from pan (or stone) to a middle oven rack. Crack the oven door open a couple of inches (a folded potholder works well here), and let it cool right in the cooling oven.
Your goal: avoid condensation.
How does this help keep bread and other baked goods crisp? As the bread (or crackers, or cookies) cools, any leftover moisture in its interior migrates to the surface. If that moisture reaches the surface and hits cool air – e.g., typical room temperature – it condenses on the outer crust, making it soggy. If it hits warm air (your still-warm oven), it evaporates – leaving the crust crisp."
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 08, 2021, 04:45:02 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 08, 2021, 04:49:16 PM
And how much time between those pictures and the pictures with the plastic off?
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 04:51:53 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 05:38:04 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 08, 2021, 08:03:03 PM
https://youtu.be/opJXyCWo6To
I wouldn't change a whole lot of variables if you think this is what you are after. I would just work on your mixing technique more than anything else.
Post by: Bentley on January 08, 2021, 08:46:36 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on January 09, 2021, 08:31:08 AM
My rolls came out the same way kind of course and crumbly, nothing mike Woman's bread when she made it. Hers was almost silky smooth from what I remember, she made rolls like in my thread, but hers would almost pull apart in thin sheets. It is hard to explain. It was great toasted, mine falls apart when I toast it.
Unfortunately by the time I was old enough and wise enough to pay attention to how she made her bread, she had switched to using the frozen dough because of her health issues.
I am going to try again sometime but knead it more and maybe more gently, thinking that the crumbly part comes form not developing a good gluten structure. I never tried the window pane I know mine would not have done that.
Post by: Bentley on January 09, 2021, 04:50:39 PM
Slap & Fail...Slap & Fail... (https://youtu.be/F7Ob_2UHNDA)
Post by: Bentley on January 09, 2021, 04:53:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/VKM3WP2h.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 09, 2021, 06:11:01 PM
The proofing picture looks way overproofed, which was also my hunch looking at the crumb in yesterday's photo. You really want to catch the dough on the way up as opposed to after the "balloon" has started to deflate. Yours looked like it reached it's peak and was on the way back down.
Post by: Bentley on January 09, 2021, 06:14:16 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 10, 2021, 10:28:51 AM
One more time with this recipe, then I am going to loosen up the mind and just try a white bread recipe and see if it is more what I am looking for! Since I basically want a giant hot dog bun!
Post by: WiPelletHead on January 10, 2021, 11:32:34 AM
https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/6620-yeast-types
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 10, 2021, 11:50:51 AM
http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm
Post by: Bentley on January 10, 2021, 01:54:53 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 10, 2021, 03:30:04 PM
Thank you for the links, but it is not about conversions for me. It is more about the recipe. To the best of my knowledge, Active yeast should be bloomed, well, maybe the reason this recipe comes out the way it does for FMT is that step must be removed. That is what I am trying to find out.
I followed the recipe by not blooming. I usually add the yeast to water in most recipes but I've done it both ways multiple times in many different recipes. I really don't think it makes much of a difference either way. I can't imagine you would get a vastly different outcome by doing it one way or the other.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 10, 2021, 03:34:49 PM
The dough will eventually get to the same point even if you use just a pinch of yeast. It may take 48 hours to get there, but it will get there. Obviously, there are other changes that occur during that time frame but ultimately I use an amount of yeast that I think will work best for when I will be home.
Post by: Bentley on January 10, 2021, 04:39:12 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 10, 2021, 06:53:19 PM
Now that I know what a correctly mixed dough looks like and believe I have a handle on rise and proof (Thank you FMT), will give the original recipe a try with the new bread forms and an egg wash!
(https://i.imgur.com/M7p7Ifeh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KTr3fGph.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ozo4cBVh.jpg)
Post by: BigDave83 on January 11, 2021, 08:08:25 AM
Post by: Bentley on January 11, 2021, 03:14:54 PM
Mixed dough (https://youtu.be/-qkToJQI7fo)
Post by: BigDave83 on January 11, 2021, 04:40:56 PM
I don't remember Woman slapping dough, but then I was not old enough to know I should be paying attention to her baking. I know she would make maybe 15 or 20 loaves at a time and gave most of it away. Maybe 4 loaves made the freezer and one for the counter.
I don't dig the kitchenaid out much usually once a year for cookies. But I have found it takes a lot of hand work out of the dough making.
Post by: Bentley on January 11, 2021, 05:34:22 PM
This concludes this portion of the Bread thread.
(https://i.imgur.com/V5eS1nAh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oTBbxkKh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uiEZlxEh.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 11, 2021, 05:40:45 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 11, 2021, 05:57:42 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on January 11, 2021, 06:05:31 PM
Out of curiosity, did it cost you less the $3.50 to make those six rolls?
I would say for the rolls I made I had $1-maybe $1.25 in them. It would have made 2 medium size loaves probably. Now if you put a value on your time, just go to the store and buy rolls. But if I am at home cooking other things it just fills the time for me, plus it smells good from the proofing of the yeast to the raise and of course the baking. Then fresh warm rolls are great reward. Even my poorly executed ones.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 11, 2021, 06:14:43 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 11, 2021, 06:26:53 PM
Out of curiosity, did it cost you less the $3.50 to make those six rolls?
I would say for the rolls I made I had $1-maybe $1.25 in them. It would have made 2 medium size loaves probably. Now if you put a value on your time, just go to the store and buy rolls. But if I am at home cooking other things it just fills the time for me, plus it smells good from the proofing of the yeast to the raise and of course the baking. Then fresh warm rolls are great reward. Even my poorly executed ones.
I have a looooong way to go before my break even point in bread baking. Just in the last month or so I've spent:
Mixer- $1300
Cart for mixer- $150
Restaurant supply (dough bins, full sheet pans, odds and ends)- $90
Dough molds- $40
Fibrament stone-$96
Proofing baskets- $88
Couche- $15
Specialty flours- At least $100
3 new bread books- $100
I'm sure I'm missing stuff, but I'd rather stop the list anyway...
Post by: ylr on January 11, 2021, 09:38:12 PM
I have a looooong way to go before my break even point in bread baking. Just in the last month or so I've spent:
Mixer- $1300
Cart for mixer- $150
Restaurant supply (dough bins, full sheet pans, odds and ends)- $90
Dough molds- $40
Fibrament stone-$96
Proofing baskets- $88
Couche- $15
Specialty flours- At least $100
3 new bread books- $100
I'm sure I'm missing stuff, but I'd rather stop the list anyway...
You sound like the guys in my area that hunt deer...... ;)
Post by: Bentley on January 11, 2021, 10:19:34 PM
Flour:.76¢
Yeast:.50¢
Egg.12¢
EVOO:.24¢
Salt:.02¢
Sugar:.04¢
Total:$1.68 + tax
Sorry, I do not have the IQ to figure out how many Kw it would take to pump up 16oz of well water, nor run an electric oven at 350° for 32 minutes.
Out of curiosity, did it cost you less the $3.50 to make thosesix[5] rolls?
Post by: Bentley on January 11, 2021, 10:22:11 PM
From the very small amount of crumb I can see in the last picture it looks like you got a nice airy texture. You look to be progressing nicely in your dough journey.
Post by: Bentley on January 11, 2021, 11:00:54 PM
Fibrament stone-$96
Post by: smokin soon on January 12, 2021, 01:01:46 AM
Bent's current quest for Hoagie Rolls no stone needed. Just gotta find what works for him.
Sandwich rolls in my world come on 2 versions.
Mine - Sourdoughs all the way. A long journey, but well worth it.
Wifey - Wonder bread clone with potato flakes, dried milk sugar and butter. If it calls for 2 tbsp. use 4.
It's all good, just takes time and patience.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 12, 2021, 06:08:54 AM
Lets see, how do I phrase this. Why is this necessary over say a tray in the oven? How does this enhance the bread baking performance? What makes cooking on a stone better then not cooking on a stone? And is it better for any dough or bread technique or recipe?Fibrament stone-$96
For most loaves and sandwich rolls like you seem to be interested in, it would probably be totally unnecessary.
For baguettes, sourdough, and "artisan" type bread it provides a more direct transfer of heat into the bread. That along with steam create the oven spring that helps give the crust the look and texture that most are striving for when cooking those breads.
Post by: BigDave83 on January 12, 2021, 08:07:37 AM
I have a looooong way to go before my break even point in bread baking. Just in the last month or so I've spent:
Mixer- $1300
Cart for mixer- $150
Restaurant supply (dough bins, full sheet pans, odds and ends)- $90
Dough molds- $40
Fibrament stone-$96
Proofing baskets- $88
Couche- $15
Specialty flours- At least $100
3 new bread books- $100
I'm sure I'm missing stuff, but I'd rather stop the list anyway...
You sound like the guys in my area that hunt deer...... ;)
I can understand this statement, we all probably can. When I used to shoot, I would go to a match with $2K+ worth of smallbore gun and $12 a box ammo to maybe win $10. To shoot pistol my box and guns were easy $7K, if I just shot some local matches you would get a $5 trophy for finishing in the top 3 of your class for the league. When I played with cars and hunted same thing. I had people that wanted me to get into Archery, I told them I would need to buy a larger house, because just like the target guns you need 4 or 5 of each then would have to make arrows and...
I can not imagine how much simpler life would be if I didn't go to excess when i would get into something.
Post by: Kristin Meredith on January 12, 2021, 09:07:59 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 15, 2021, 05:30:03 PM
Moist and tender with just the lightest crispiness to the exterior.
Will make good Cuban sandwiches some day. Was just trying to get the recipe down now.
As you can see, my forming of the loaves sucks.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 15, 2021, 06:09:00 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 15, 2021, 06:39:14 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 15, 2021, 06:56:36 PM
Now, show some sandwiches with that bread in the sandwich thread. Those look great. Is that a dowel that you had in the middle of each?Traditional Cuban bread calls for a piece of twine run the length of the loaf, or a metal skewer.
Since I didn't have metal skewers that long, I used wooden skewers.
Could have used a Lame and slashed them just as easily I guess.
Should have pushed them down in a little farther.
I have some Prime Rib roast in the fridge.
If it is thawed enough, will make a sammie for lunch tomorrow.
Glad someone else is posting in here! How long did you proof after placing in form?
Starter in fridge for 24 hrs.
Mix everything, then RT proof for 1.5 hrs
Punch down and then proof again for another hour.
Cut into pieces, then proof for 20 minutes.
Then into kitchen oven on a pizza stone at 400 for 20 minutes.
Too dang cold out or I would have done them in the Memphis.
I misted them with water to give them a little crispiness.
Post by: Bentley on January 15, 2021, 07:43:10 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 15, 2021, 08:59:31 PM
Here are 2 links that may give you some insight to the softness you are looking for. Both guys state that they like to leave in a plastic bag for a day before using to soften.
That actually sparked a memory from my Subway days. We would bake the bread, let cool fully, then stack in plastic bags to soften. I don't believe they do that anymore at subway. When we were super busy we would nearly run out of bread so we had to use it nearly fresh baked. It was much crispier on the day of the bake.
https://youtu.be/rR8oA5ACqPg
https://youtu.be/D9Vn2i6uwZY
Post by: Bentley on January 15, 2021, 09:20:14 PM
I must say, i am going to see if I can hunt down that glass cutter the guy used in the 1st video to score the bread before cooking, it looked very sweet!
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 16, 2021, 10:29:30 AM
Is it sourdough? Or do you just like to use starters for the flavor?
Not sourdough. Directions just say to make it with flour, water, and IDY.
Calls for making it 12 hrs ahead and leaving sit in a cool place.
I just made it about 20 hrs ahead and put in fridge, and it worked fine.
Didn't feel like making it late at night.
Recipe came from --> globaltableadventure.
Bentley, a regular double edged razor blade works great for scoring. Usually in most lame's.
I always had problems scoring until I found out the you have to do it fast.
If you drag it slowly, it just pulls the dough.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 16, 2021, 01:39:02 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 22, 2021, 11:58:04 PM
Tonight, I used "trash" flour to again try to mimick jersey mike's rosemary parm bread. For me, this is the pinnacle for sub bread especially for a cold/room temp sandwich.
Arguments could be made for better options for hot or wet subs, but no matter what this bread will become a staple to have on hand in my freezer.
For some reason, I'm thinking meatball subs tomorrow to see how this holds up for that type of application.
(https://i.imgur.com/vyDkPDXl.jpg[img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/5Fj4O8ml.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/s9FeN3Ul.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on January 23, 2021, 10:28:25 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 23, 2021, 10:46:54 AM
I tried the rosemary parmesan version of my accidental jersey mike's bread last weekend. I made the mistake of adding in some "artisan" flour to what was supposed to mimick a commercial product. Not a great idea.
Tonight, I used "trash" flour to again try to mimick jersey mike's rosemary parm bread. For me, this is the pinnacle for sub bread especially for a cold/room temp sandwich.
Arguments could be made for better options for hot or wet subs, but no matter what this bread will become a staple to have on hand in my freezer.
For some reason, I'm thinking meatball subs tomorrow to see how this holds up for that type of application.
Look really good!
Once I get my starter fully healthy ( a few days), will be making a couple loaves of San Francisco style (whatever that is).
I might have to try splitting the top just because it seems to spread the width of the loaf and I like that.
I've found that if you flatten the dough before you put it in the oven, that helps to spread it out some.
The trays tend counteract that though.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 23, 2021, 12:19:57 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 23, 2021, 09:21:51 PM
Tonight, I used "trash" flour to again try to mimick jersey mike's rosemary parm bread.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 23, 2021, 09:38:32 PM
So how is the rosemary applied?Tonight, I used "trash" flour to again try to mimick jersey mike's rosemary parm bread.
I just sprayed with water after slashing, and then sprinkled dried rosemary and medium grated parmesan over the top.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 24, 2021, 12:08:08 PM
That bread looks great. Please post pics of that meatball sub in the sandwich thread for everyone to salivate over.
Will do. Just got around to making the meatballs today so it may be today or sometime this week.
I did figure out last night that a long toasting in the oven does not do this bread any favors. I made a stromboli which I put open faced in the oven for about 7 or 8 minutes. It definitely takes away the characteristics that make me like this bread so much. The softness and springy nature is baked right out of it. I still prefer the turano style roll for toasted applications.
So, the meatball sub will more than likely be pre-toaster ovens Subway style. Piping hot meatballs and sauce placed on top of thin sliced cheese laying on untoasted bread. Then a heavy sprinkling of parmesan. The heat from the sauce should sufficiently melt the cheeses and I will still have the soft springy bread intact. I would think that the high gluten bread should hold up to the sauce pretty well without falling apart.
Post by: hughver on January 25, 2021, 05:13:58 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 25, 2021, 05:32:32 PM
My first attempt at Baguettes. I'll try a Po'boy sandwich later today
Look pretty good. :clap:
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 25, 2021, 05:46:04 PM
My first attempt at Baguettes. I'll try a Po'boy sandwich later today
Look pretty good. :clap:
+1 on that
Post by: Bentley on January 25, 2021, 11:24:57 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 26, 2021, 05:45:03 AM
My first attempt at Baguettes. I'll try a Po'boy sandwich later today
Looking good. What type of poboy?
Post by: hughver on January 26, 2021, 10:54:09 AM
Post by: bregent on January 26, 2021, 12:26:52 PM
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 26, 2021, 12:52:29 PM
Post by: bregent on January 26, 2021, 01:44:14 PM
Looks like I need some equipment to make bread when I retire.
The only equipment I used for the rye was a bowl, my hand, and a cast iron Dutch oven. I'm guessing you already have most of those :)
Post by: Bentley on January 26, 2021, 01:45:05 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 26, 2021, 01:47:51 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 26, 2021, 02:23:41 PM
Rustic light rye
Good looking bread! :clap:
I'll be making some Sourdough bread and Sourdough crackers tomorrow.
Looks like I need some equipment to make bread when I retire.
Just a mixer, a pizza stone (or steel), and the usual measuring and weighing equipment.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 26, 2021, 02:43:43 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 26, 2021, 02:48:54 PM
I think I have seen to many Prison Documentaries...
(https://i.imgur.com/M8Ch0wUh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jsjDQIsh.jpg)
Post by: bregent on January 26, 2021, 02:57:02 PM
Nice. I just made sourdough crackers for the first time over the weekend while making that sourdough rye loaf. They're really easy and very tasty.
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 26, 2021, 03:27:13 PM
Hope it works! Will try and go fast!
Those blades are a little thicker that the double edge razor blades, let us know how it works.
I just ordered a new lame, supposed to get here today.
Looks a little nicer than the one I have.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079G7WC79/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Post by: Bentley on January 26, 2021, 03:34:34 PM
Post by: hughver on January 26, 2021, 04:31:55 PM
Looks like I need some equipment to make bread when I retire.
I'm not a real bread maker, so far, the only thing that I use is an el cheapo ($49) bread machine. I've made some bread in it but mostly use it for mixing/kneading/fermenting the dough, I then shape and bake in the oven.
Post by: hughver on January 26, 2021, 05:46:35 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 26, 2021, 05:47:30 PM
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 26, 2021, 06:00:12 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 26, 2021, 06:15:06 PM
Rustic light rye
That looks xxxx near perfect.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 26, 2021, 06:18:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/r8w3XTEh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qIf71Zyh.jpg)
Structure looks good. Top looks fairly pale. Very similar to my overproofed first batch of the jersey mike's style. There are other reasons it would be pale, but overproofed is the likely culprit. All of the sugars that help color the bread are spent prior to baking I believe is the theory.
Your suspicion that you overproofed was probably correct. Nevertheless, your loaves are looking better and better.
Post by: Bentley on January 26, 2021, 06:18:40 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 26, 2021, 06:21:39 PM
I probably don't want to be screwing around with our Kitchen Aid so I would look at what FMT bought. I also need some of those things that form the rolls too for long hoagie rolls. Do they make similar forms for hot dog/sausage/brat and hamburger rolls?
They make all kinds of shapes. I may buy the hamburger bun form next, although hamburger shape is easier than hoagie so I don't know that it's needed unless you wanted super uniform buns.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 26, 2021, 06:25:29 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on January 26, 2021, 06:27:35 PM
Bregent, I love Rye toast especially with my eggs and sausages. I would be a toasting fool with that loaf.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 26, 2021, 06:35:06 PM
When are one of you guys going to make some bolillos for tortas? I loved those rolls I used to buy in Tecate on the way home from work.
Those types of rolls from a local latin grocery is one of the reasons I started researching bread more. I wanted to know how they made them almost weightless. I'm on my way with this mixer I think but haven't tried them yet.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 26, 2021, 07:03:03 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 27, 2021, 02:19:44 PM
Just can't get rise and color out of the loaves that I would like since we moved from Texas.
Taste great, just not happy with the way they look, but they will get eaten. ;D
Crackers have Rosemary in them and sprinkled with Cypress Sea Salt.
They came out good, and taste good too.
Post by: Peterwoody on January 27, 2021, 03:51:35 PM
Post by: bregent on January 27, 2021, 05:02:19 PM
Rise looks good, but color looks like over-proofing. What is your formula and workflow for that loaf?
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 27, 2021, 05:12:25 PM
O2, are you using active sourdough or discards to make the crackers?
Discard for the crackers. last fed 24 hrs ago.
>Just can't get rise and color out of the loaves that I would like since we moved from Texas.
Rise looks good, but color looks like over-proofing. What is your formula and workflow for that loaf?
Proofed overnight at RT (60f - 68f) about 13 hours.
I think I didn't compensate enough for the altitude.
Since I still have the starter out, I am going to make 2 more on Friday.
This time will raise oven temp from 380 to 385 (recipe called for 375) and IT from 195 to 200.
That should give it a little more color.
Still have starter out, so I will try again if that doesn't improve color.
Post by: bregent on January 27, 2021, 05:19:28 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 28, 2021, 04:23:14 AM
O2, are you using active sourdough or discards to make the crackers?
Discard for the crackers. last fed 24 hrs ago.>Just can't get rise and color out of the loaves that I would like since we moved from Texas.
Rise looks good, but color looks like over-proofing. What is your formula and workflow for that loaf?
Proofed overnight at RT (60f - 68f) about 13 hours.
I think I didn't compensate enough for the altitude.
Since I still have the starter out, I am going to make 2 more on Friday.
This time will raise oven temp from 380 to 385 (recipe called for 375) and IT from 195 to 200.
That should give it a little more color.
Still have starter out, so I will try again if that doesn't improve color.
Most of the recipes I've seen and/or use are way hotter than that. Usually 450-500. Many are preheat to 500, then reduce to 450 or 425. The color is a mystery. Otherwise nice looking bread. Did you get the color you wanted at the same temp at your previous residence?
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 28, 2021, 10:49:45 AM
Did you get the color you wanted at the same temp at your previous residence?
Yes, that was at near sea level in Texas. I'm at about 5600ft here.
Haven't made as much bread here as I did when I was in TX.
Need make more of an adjustment than I have for the altitude difference.
We'll see what tomorrows loaves look like.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 30, 2021, 12:03:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gOfcWsHl.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 30, 2021, 12:15:37 PM
Tried that sourdough bread again with no luck. Have no idea what happened.
Raised oven temp to 390f (from 375) and set thermometer to 200f (from 190).
Strangest thing, thermometer never alarmed.
Temp was stalled at 198.
Don't know if it was oven, probe, thermometer, or one of the mysteries of science.
Needless to say, was cooked to long and we ended up with 2 bricks.
Did have nice color though. ;D
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 30, 2021, 08:47:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EIzgI5Cl.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 30, 2021, 08:49:50 PM
Looks good to me!!!.
Tried that sourdough bread again with no luck. Have no idea what happened.
Raised oven temp to 390f (from 375) and set thermometer to 200f (from 190).
Strangest thing, thermometer never alarmed.
Temp was stalled at 198.
Don't know if it was oven, probe, thermometer, or one of the mysteries of science.
Needless to say, was cooked to long and we ended up with 2 bricks.
Did have nice color though. ;D
I've never cooked at high altitude. If you got the results you wanted before and that is essentially the only change, I guess I'd start researching or asking around for cooking advice from locals. That is crazy if that changes things to that degree.
Post by: bregent on January 31, 2021, 03:38:16 PM
>Temp was stalled at 198.
Not surprising since you are at 5600 ft and water boils around 201F at that elevation. I didn't realize you were that high.
You've may have seen this already, but here are some high alt baking tips: https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/learn/resources/high-altitude-baking
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 31, 2021, 03:53:55 PM
>Strangest thing, thermometer never alarmed.I understand changes are necessary for high altitude, but that doesn't account for IT staying at 198 for a long time.
>Temp was stalled at 198.
Not surprising since you are at 5600 ft and water boils around 201F at that elevation. I didn't realize you were that high.
You've may have seen this already, but here are some high alt baking tips: https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/learn/resources/high-altitude-baking
Should have climbed past the 200 at some point.
I did see a UFO just shortly before that. Hmmm
Post by: smokin soon on January 31, 2021, 06:07:18 PM
Post by: bregent on February 01, 2021, 01:04:51 PM
I'm at sea level and my breads never get above 209, so I don't thing anything strange is going on. As long as there is moisture, evaporative cooling will keep the bread at less than boiling point (201 at your elevation). I think the moisture in the outer layers of the loaf will evaporate sooner, so the center will be lower than boiling point. Salt and other dissolved solids will raise the BP, but not my much.
Post by: Bentley on February 01, 2021, 01:20:44 PM
Post by: bregent on February 01, 2021, 02:03:37 PM
I use a maintenance method that requires no regular feeding, no discarding, and is always ready to bake in 12 hours.
I maintain a stiff 66% hydration starter - made my mixing of 8 grams starter, 56 grams flour, and 37 grams water, for a total of 101 grams. This stiff starter will say healthy in the fridge for up to 4 months with no feeding, stirring, etc. It's really hands off.
When I am going to bake, I take about 8 grams of the starter and mix with 50 grams flour, 50 grams water. This is a levain. I put it in my proofing box (a cooler with a heating pad and temp controller) running at 80F and it is fully active within 12 hours, often less. I will typically make the levain at 9PM and then use it to make dough at 9am the next day.
Since I am only using 8 grams at a time, the 100g starter in the fridge will make about 10 loaves. When I get down to about 15 grams, I build the starter back up as in the first step.
The 100 grams of starter fits nicely into a 8oz ball jar. I use the same size for the levain as well. If you bake frequently, you can maintain a larger starter, or just rebuild more often. I've been using this method for over 2 years with starter that I've had for about 5.
Here's the levain after 10 hours.
Post by: bregent on February 01, 2021, 02:08:01 PM
Post by: hughver on February 01, 2021, 02:23:44 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 01, 2021, 02:32:28 PM
Big bakeries do things differently than the average home baker. I know they use various methods for maintaining their mother, but I've never worked in a bakery so I'll just tell you how I do it.
I use a maintenance method that requires no regular feeding, no discarding, and is always ready to bake in 12 hours.
I maintain a stiff 66% hydration starter - made my mixing of 8 grams starter, 56 grams flour, and 37 grams water, for a total of 101 grams. This stiff starter will say healthy in the fridge for up to 4 months with no feeding, stirring, etc. It's really hands off.
When I am going to bake, I take about 8 grams of the starter and mix with 50 grams flour, 50 grams water. This is a levain. I put it in my proofing box (a cooler with a heating pad and temp controller) running at 80F and it is fully active within 12 hours, often less. I will typically make the levain at 9PM and then use it to make dough at 9am the next day.
Since I am only using 8 grams at a time, the 100g starter in the fridge will make about 10 loaves. When I get down to about 15 grams, I build the starter back up as in the first step.
The 100 grams of starter fits nicely into a 8oz ball jar. I use the same size for the levain as well. If you bake frequently, you can maintain a larger starter, or just rebuild more often. I've been using this method for over 2 years with starter that I've had for about 5.
Here's the levain after 10 hours.
We don't bake that often (other than pizza), so I have stopped keeping started in the fridge.
I have a freezer full of dried starter.
It takes about 3-4 days to revive and get a good healthy starter.
Just takes a little planning.
If we get on a baking binge, we will just leave it on the counter and feed twice a day.
Post by: BigDave83 on February 01, 2021, 06:28:41 PM
I may do a search, but thought I would ask here also.
How is sour dough or bread with the starter different than yeast bread?
Sorry, I am a hick from the mountains of PA, don't know nothin bout this fancy stuff.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 01, 2021, 06:54:47 PM
reading through posts from today, and while I am here I figure i would just ask. What is starter, and how is it made or is it something like yeast that you buy and mix?
I may do a search, but thought I would ask here also.
How is sour dough or bread with the starter different than yeast bread?
Sorry, I am a hick from the mountains of PA, don't know nothin bout this fancy stuff.
Starter is simply flour and water mixed together. After a period of time the flour feeds off of natural yeast in the flour, on your hands, in the air etc. It takes maybe 10 days of regular feedings to get one to rise everyday like clockwork. I feed mine once a day equal parts flour and water.
Like stated above, there are other forms and hydrations for starter. It's basically a way to naturally leaven bread. It's been popular forever, but during the beginning of covid there was a surge in sourdough baking because of commercial yeast shortages.
Sourdough isn't necessarily sour either. Depending on many factors, it can taste pretty much just like any other bread. Or if you manipulate the variables you can get a tangy sour loaf.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 02, 2021, 11:56:05 AM
You add sour salt (citric acid) to the dough to enhance toe sour taste.
Post by: bregent on February 02, 2021, 12:26:31 PM
Just adding to what has already been stated - besides yeast, sourdough starter also contains various strains of lactic acid bacteria, which is what gives the bread its sourness. By controlling the feeding and fermentation temperatures, you can vary the amount of sourness.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 05, 2021, 01:28:50 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 07, 2021, 04:44:08 PM
Got a little overzealous with the new lame. ::)
Going to have to go back baking in my Pellet Grill, it give a better color.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 07, 2021, 05:07:45 PM
Made some Cuban bread for Cuban sandwiches later.
Got a little overzealous with the new lame. ::)
Going to have to go back baking in my Pellet Grill, it give a better color.
Looks like it expanded nicely. My oven has an issue that with covid delays may not be solved anytime soon so I tried to bake baguettes in my cheapo pellet grill last night. It was 9 degrees or so. Total disaster, and all in the garbage. At the moment, I wish I would have kept one of my nicer pellet grills for baking.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 07, 2021, 05:10:29 PM
Burger buns for tonight
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 07, 2021, 05:13:20 PM
Made some Cuban bread for Cuban sandwiches later.
Got a little overzealous with the new lame. ::)
Going to have to go back baking in my Pellet Grill, it give a better color.
Looks like it expanded nicely. My oven has an issue that with covid delays may not be solved anytime soon so I tried to bake baguettes in my cheapo pellet grill last night. It was 9 degrees or so. Total disaster, and all in the garbage. At the moment, I wish I would have kept one of my nicer pellet grills for baking.
Yeah, I used the oven for same reason, cold outside.
I have two 16x16 pizza stones that fit nicely in the Memphis.
I've got some starter brewing right now, so when it is ready, I will make some King Arthur's Extra Tangy Sourdough on the grill.
EDIT: Rolls look great!!! :clap:
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 07, 2021, 05:44:48 PM
Post by: hughver on February 07, 2021, 06:02:49 PM
Post by: Kristin Meredith on February 08, 2021, 05:09:16 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 08, 2021, 05:32:08 PM
Not exactly on point, but throwing it out there. Any of you folks familiar with the Numero Uno Romano Puff Balls? If so, do you have a recipe? I am willing to sell Bentley for that recipe.
Does he do windows?
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 09, 2021, 07:42:28 PM
Not exactly on point, but throwing it out there. Any of you folks familiar with the Numero Uno Romano Puff Balls? If so, do you have a recipe? I am willing to sell Bentley for that recipe.
I looked them up on Yelp. They look delicious. I've had similar items from various places over the years. The pool of butter is so good, but a bit frightening to look at.
Post by: Bentley on February 09, 2021, 11:04:50 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on February 10, 2021, 07:52:30 AM
http://foodfashionandflow.blogspot.com/2012/06/romano-bread-puffs-with-basil-garlic.html
Feel free to delete link.
I searched because it sounded interesting. I found this and some pictures but nothing of them cut or bitten in half.
They almost look like the chinese donuts only they have cheese instead of sugar. I use canned biscuits for them, I can go through 4 or 5 cans of them when we have a small gathering in the summer.
Post by: Kristin Meredith on February 10, 2021, 08:47:23 AM
Is this what you are talking about?
http://foodfashionandflow.blogspot.com/2012/06/romano-bread-puffs-with-basil-garlic.html
Feel free to delete link.
I searched because it sounded interesting. I found this and some pictures but nothing of them cut or bitten in half.
They almost look like the chinese donuts only they have cheese instead of sugar. I use canned biscuits for them, I can go through 4 or 5 cans of them when we have a small gathering in the summer.
That's not exactly how they look -- they are completely round and fried, but not sweet like like donuts. Bent has tried that recipe and it is not exactly like Numero Uno's. And they shake romano on them and the butter pool they come in is a butter-garlic-romano mixture -- just fabulous!
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Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 10, 2021, 10:21:32 AM
They almost look like the chinese donuts only they have cheese instead of sugar. I use canned biscuits for them, I can go through 4 or 5 cans of them when we have a small gathering in the summer.
This is how my mother made donuts. Canned biscuit dough. Used a cap or thimble to create the hole. Fried and shaken in a brown paper bag filled with sugar and/or cinnamon sugar. Fond memories.
I was a big kid and could polish off a can or so just on my own. I loved the donut holes especially.
Post by: BigDave83 on February 10, 2021, 11:54:50 AM
They almost look like the chinese donuts only they have cheese instead of sugar. I use canned biscuits for them, I can go through 4 or 5 cans of them when we have a small gathering in the summer.
This is how my mother made donuts. Canned biscuit dough. Used a cap or thimble to create the hole. Fried and shaken in a brown paper bag filled with sugar and/or cinnamon sugar. Fond memories.
I was a big kid and could polish off a can or so just on my own. I loved the donut holes especially.
I use the small biscuits not grands size, and just do them whole, then into a pan of sugar or sugar and cinnamon.
Had the bright idea of doing cinnamon rolls one time. What a mess. They unrolled the sugar and cinnamon just melted out.
Post by: Bentley on February 12, 2021, 02:39:36 PM
Maybe you bread people will tell me how the color is about a perfect as I could expect with no egg wash, no nothing!
(https://i.imgur.com/ZGWbMevh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/spvxz98h.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 12, 2021, 02:55:33 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 12, 2021, 03:00:15 PM
I've got some dough on the counter for Bolillo's that will go into the oven in about 90 minutes.
Hope they have as good a color as yours.
Making Sourdough and Rye tomorrow. And pizza, can't forget Saturday pizza day.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 12, 2021, 03:03:18 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing those bolillo rolls from 02 later today
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 12, 2021, 06:01:32 PM
Had no trouble getting dough to double in size. ;D
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 12, 2021, 06:12:40 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 12, 2021, 06:28:42 PM
that one in the middle on the left looks great...give me 12 of them to go please!
Guess you've figured out by now that I suck at shaping dough. :(
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 12, 2021, 07:13:26 PM
that one in the middle on the left looks great...give me 12 of them to go please!
Guess you've figured out by now that I suck at shaping dough. :(
No way. You are great. Just replicate that one in the middle left more often ;D
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 13, 2021, 09:38:47 PM
Pellet Grill definitely browns better than the house oven.
Made Sourdough and Rye.
Cut loaf is rye.
Post by: BigDave83 on February 13, 2021, 10:08:29 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 14, 2021, 05:39:49 AM
Neither rain, nor snow, nor dark will stop the bread making.
Pellet Grill definitely browns better than the house oven.
Made Sourdough and Rye.
Cut loaf is rye.
Those are beautiful loaves. Are you saying the ones on top are cooked on the grill and the bottom ones oven? Have you checked your oven? I would think if those are the same product there shouldn't be that much difference unless there was an oven issue.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 14, 2021, 07:24:22 AM
I had never made it although I was familiar with it. I made a test run yesterday. It turned out really well.
(https://i.imgur.com/ppD6SS8l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UNcvjHBl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VlgWPM3l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4Dnkidpl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MWyZB3yl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mMg0Tnzl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uDVOxRxl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/t8GpDJMl.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 14, 2021, 11:04:14 AM
Is the cart the home of your mixer, or do you just use it for transporting the mixer ?
I use a cart just for moving heavy appliances from closet to kitchen and back.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 14, 2021, 11:20:23 AM
Those are beautiful loaves. Are you saying the ones on top are cooked on the grill and the bottom ones oven? Have you checked your oven? I would think if those are the same product there shouldn't be that much difference unless there was an oven issue.
Both were done on the grill.
The Rye is the nice golden color. Lighter colored ones are the Sourdough. Hard to tell from pic, but they do have some color.
I think the reason they are lighter is because they were pretty sticky so I dusted them with flour when I put them in the banneton's.
Post by: Bentley on February 14, 2021, 12:07:54 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 14, 2021, 12:20:33 PM
All of those breads look great! FMT, that last bread, is it going to go better with pastrami or tuna salad?
Bentley, were you referring to my bread or Tony's ?
Tony's looks like an "eat as is" sweet bread.
If mine, still have some ham and Swiss, so ham and Swiss on rye, Tuna Salad (or Chicken Salad) does sound good too, and I was thinking patty melt.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 14, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
It is not overly sweet which I like, but as stated above it is a sweetbread that is probably best just consumed as is.
Post by: Bentley on February 14, 2021, 03:04:22 PM
Is the chocolate just tempered chips?
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 14, 2021, 03:50:45 PM
I kind of assumed it was a sweet bread...alas my humor...OK, didn't catch it. hahaha
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 14, 2021, 05:02:30 PM
Wow, that looks great! :clap:
Is the cart the home of your mixer, or do you just use it for transporting the mixer ?
I use a cart just for moving heavy appliances from closet to kitchen and back.
It lives on the cart. My pantry extends under my staircase, and is a pretty nice parking spot for the cart. It's from menards and works really well.
(https://i.imgur.com/PdQ71lcl.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 14, 2021, 05:30:44 PM
Wow, that looks great! :clap:
Is the cart the home of your mixer, or do you just use it for transporting the mixer ?
I use a cart just for moving heavy appliances from closet to kitchen and back.
It lives on the cart. My pantry extends under my staircase, and is a pretty nice parking spot for the cart. It's from menards and works really well.
Cool... I find that the older you get, the heavier things get. Carts are a blessing.
Post by: hughver on February 14, 2021, 05:44:37 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 14, 2021, 06:02:48 PM
Wow, that looks great! :clap:
Is the cart the home of your mixer, or do you just use it for transporting the mixer ?
I use a cart just for moving heavy appliances from closet to kitchen and back.
It lives on the cart. My pantry extends under my staircase, and is a pretty nice parking spot for the cart. It's from menards and works really well.
Cool... I find that the older you get, the heavier things get. Carts are a blessing.
That's for sure. I really thought that I wouldn't mind lugging it around when I saw the specs weighing in around 70 lbs. It didn't seem that bad, but after about a week I was exploring options. This works well.
I'm hoping at some point to convert a room in our house that shares the pantry wall into a butlers pantry. It is about a 10 x 11 room that I would like to install a bread oven, sink, butcher block island, shelving, etc. It will be really awesome if it ever comes to fruition.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 14, 2021, 06:05:15 PM
Since I've not had any luck with other breads, I decided to give Essene bread with dates and walnuts another try. This bread is not only very healthy, it has very few ingredients, it’s easy to make and taste good.
Looks good. You have a sliced pic?
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 14, 2021, 06:24:41 PM
That's for sure. I really thought that I wouldn't mind lugging it around when I saw the specs weighing in around 70 lbs. It didn't seem that bad, but after about a week I was exploring options. This works well.
I'm hoping at some point to convert a room in our house that shares the pantry wall into a butlers pantry. It is about a 10 x 11 room that I would like to install a bread oven, sink, butcher block island, shelving, etc. It will be really awesome if it ever comes to fruition.
That would be sweet!
I have a double door what used to be a coat closet in the hall just off the kitchen.
Since there is a coat closet by the front door, I converted the double door one into an appliance garage.
My cart is in there, so we just put whatever on the cart and take it to kitchen.
My panini press is the heaviest.
Post by: bregent on February 16, 2021, 07:13:41 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 16, 2021, 07:40:13 PM
My son had a craving for sausage and peppers, so I made some hoagie rolls from a recipe I found online. I wanted something that was airy, but had some chew. These were very quick and easy and turned out the way we wanted.
Boy that makes me miss baseball. I love going to baseball stadiums. Especially ones that I haven't been to before. I like to wander the halls between innings following the scent of griddled onions and peppers.
I've had good, bad, and in between. More often than not they aren't quite as good as you want them to be at the ballpark, but they sure do bring back some awesome memories by just seeing a picture of one.
My daughter and I would try to make a point to hit a baseball game most summers through her childhood years. She's in college now. I hope you and your son enjoyed them.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 16, 2021, 08:24:09 PM
FMT, the sausage at the Brewers stadium is very good. Also, several good sandwiches at the Pirates stadium too.
Post by: Bentley on February 16, 2021, 09:47:57 PM
Post by: bregent on February 17, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 17, 2021, 06:34:35 AM
That sandwich looks great.
FMT, the sausage at the Brewers stadium is very good. Also, several good sandwiches at the Pirates stadium too.
PNC in Pittsburgh is one of my favorite stadiums I've been to. One of the better food stops as well. I've been meaning to make it to Milwaukee for several years, but haven't got there yet. It's one of the few places within 5 hours from me that I haven't been to yet.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 17, 2021, 08:20:42 AM
That sandwich looks great.
FMT, the sausage at the Brewers stadium is very good. Also, several good sandwiches at the Pirates stadium too.
PNC in Pittsburgh is one of my favorite stadiums I've been to. One of the better food stops as well. I've been meaning to make it to Milwaukee for several years, but haven't got there yet. It's one of the few places within 5 hours from me that I haven't been to yet.
Milwaukee is also the easiest stadium to get in and out of from a driving standpoint that I have ever been at.
Wrigley Field has the smell of grilled onions underneath the seating area down in the "tunnel" where all of the food vendors are. That great smell doesn't seem to have a way to escape that area. Baltimore has the Boog Powell Baltimore pit beef sandwich although I have not had one yet.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 17, 2021, 10:43:54 AM
My son had a craving for sausage and peppers, so I made some hoagie rolls from a recipe I found online. I wanted something that was airy, but had some chew. These were very quick and easy and turned out the way we wanted.
Great looking rolls!!! I like the sausage and peppers too!
Post by: hughver on February 17, 2021, 12:43:15 PM
Since I've not had any luck with other breads, I decided to give Essene bread with dates and walnuts another try. This bread is not only very healthy, it has very few ingredients, it’s easy to make and taste good.
Looks good. You have a sliced pic?
No, when I removed it from the pan it fell apart, too moist. I made a few creative changes to the recipe and they did not turn out well.
Post by: Bentley on February 17, 2021, 08:58:37 PM
Post by: hughver on February 18, 2021, 09:41:17 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 21, 2021, 08:21:49 AM
I've had quite a situation getting a part for my oven that was needed for a couple months. I finally got that replaced this week which helped even out my oven temps, but a gas oven is still sub-optimal for sourdough baking.
(https://i.imgur.com/mw8FPPml.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Kc2ovhJl.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 21, 2021, 10:41:49 AM
Post by: Bentley on February 21, 2021, 12:50:41 PM
Post by: Bentley on February 22, 2021, 02:45:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kTDdMFNh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BH6oDYQh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uPgEqiXh.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 22, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
How big a dough ball was it for a loaf that size?
Post by: Bentley on February 22, 2021, 02:53:43 PM
How big a dough ball was it for a loaf that size?
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 22, 2021, 03:08:24 PM
My breads (and pans) are all relatively small. I need to increase recipe size as well for a pan that size.
tnx
Post by: yorkdude on February 22, 2021, 06:10:56 PM
I so badly want to be able to find one. Nothing fancy, just good ole white bread.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 22, 2021, 06:15:47 PM
I keep my recipes in spreadsheets so I can modify quantity easily.
This is a smaller loaf than Bentley's, but recipe can easily be modified.
Post by: Bentley on February 23, 2021, 12:07:07 AM
Bentley, is that a “simple†white bread recipe?
Post by: yorkdude on February 23, 2021, 05:59:30 AM
Post by: Bentley on February 23, 2021, 02:42:20 PM
Post by: yorkdude on February 23, 2021, 02:53:44 PM
No, it is close to it though. If you go to the KA site and search for King Arthur's Classic White Sandwich Bread it will come right up!Thanks I will look it up.
Post by: hughver on February 25, 2021, 09:03:17 PM
Post by: Bentley on February 25, 2021, 09:19:49 PM
Post by: yorkdude on February 26, 2021, 06:22:11 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 26, 2021, 09:20:12 PM
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CLuUrpKIvPK/?igshid=o9m0dg4teqeh
Post by: BigDave83 on February 27, 2021, 09:41:22 AM
Here is a good slap and fold video for dough consistency. You may want to mute but the content is solid.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CLuUrpKIvPK/?igshid=o9m0dg4teqeh
That is pretty nice. I can never get my dough to that consistency. It either sticks to me or the counter.
Post by: KeithG on February 27, 2021, 10:35:55 AM
Post by: jdmessner on February 27, 2021, 10:38:14 AM
I thought it was a little dense and dry, my wife thought it was great. Will increase the pecans and and cherries next time. I also plan to decrease the WW flour and increase the bread flour.
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Post by: 02ebz06 on February 27, 2021, 11:07:00 AM
I have been trying to avoid this thread for a while, since I've been trying to cut down on bread and carbs. However I did find a Lenten Fasting Bread that sounded good. I will end up making around 50 of these to give out during Lent. One batch makes 6 loafs that are 12 oz. It has whole wheat and bread flour, olive oil, maple syrup, oats, pecans, sugar, salt, and yeast.
I thought it was a little dense and dry, my wife thought it was great. Will increase the pecans and and cherries next time. I also plan to decrease the WW flour and increase the bread flour.
They look pretty tasty!!! :clap:
FYI - King Arthur has a Keto Flour. Only 4 grams of carbs per serving.
Not cheap though... About $13 for 16 oz.
Post by: Bentley on February 27, 2021, 02:27:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gQhCWsXh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hC1U6Ioh.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 27, 2021, 02:28:50 PM
Post by: Bentley on February 27, 2021, 02:57:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pIEw6Aeh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XI4VBh8h.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on February 27, 2021, 04:16:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Tkyqcclh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on February 28, 2021, 01:50:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZSlM9Sqh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on February 28, 2021, 01:54:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/i37QS3ph.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vclTgVSh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on February 28, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QfImnqmh.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 28, 2021, 02:17:44 PM
I'm glad I didn't have a drink in my mouth when I read your post about the pizza grass.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 28, 2021, 02:28:55 PM
Post by: Bentley on February 28, 2021, 02:46:51 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 28, 2021, 05:56:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vBFifFhl.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on February 28, 2021, 06:06:49 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 01, 2021, 10:58:15 AM
They do look good!
+1
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 03, 2021, 03:44:32 PM
Came out good.
Forgot to take a picture when I took them out of the grill, so last pic is after I misted with water and wrapped them.
Post by: jdmessner on March 06, 2021, 04:37:28 PM
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Post by: BigDave83 on March 08, 2021, 01:53:32 PM
Here is the recipe copied from below the video.
Ciao all this video is amazing, because i show you what you can really do with just one type of, dough recipe at home, i made an amazing pizza, perfect bread and a focaccia, this was made everything in one day, here is the recipe
(poolish) you need to prepare it day before
-400ml water
-400gr. flour
-5gr. fresh yeast - if you use dry go with 2.5gr.
5gr. honey
PIZZA DOUGH REciPE
-Poolish
-180gr. flour
-15gr. salt
and the link for the video: https://youtu.be/NWl_Nq7OTUI
Now to find the recipe I used to use to make the garlic butter for the bread.
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 08, 2021, 02:01:50 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 08, 2021, 06:48:21 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on March 08, 2021, 08:34:32 PM
I liked his videos much more when he wasn't a full time youtuber. Still informative but seem a little forced now.
I just started watching him, he seems to really be focused on building the subscribers numbers. still good to watch for someone like me that doesn't know how to make dough very well.
Post by: Bentley on March 16, 2021, 05:58:49 PM
I made the recipe cuz I needed rolls for a Cheese Steak after the meeting tonight. I think they maybe to soft. Will report back with the sandwich about 9pm!
(https://i.imgur.com/D1cY5m2h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/s0iCe43h.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 16, 2021, 06:08:05 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 21, 2021, 02:28:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/2YJbUS9l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y6626DBl.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 21, 2021, 03:00:36 PM
Might have to try adding cheese and jalapenos next time I make sourdough.
Guess green chilies would work too.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 21, 2021, 03:15:49 PM
can't wait to view the interior of those loaves
next you will need a bagel recipe
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 21, 2021, 03:40:55 PM
I'm surprised they didn't.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 21, 2021, 03:47:22 PM
Just noticed the finished loaves didn't keep the design of the banneton.
I'm surprised they didn't.
I used cold dutch ovens for the first and last time. Preheated works much better. It may have been a shaping problem as well.
Post by: Bentley on March 21, 2021, 05:02:52 PM
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 21, 2021, 05:05:38 PM
You will use a loaf of bread like that how?
Just pull off chunks and eat it. I think it would be great for a cuban sandwich or even a ham n cheese sandwich.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 21, 2021, 05:11:09 PM
You will use a loaf of bread like that how?
If you slice a full slice and cut it in half it makes great sandwich bread for a small sandwich and soup combo meal.
Tonight I'll make my wife a turkey sandwich with it. Since the bread is full of flavor the ingredients can be more simple. I'll toast lightly, add some mayo and tomato. A few slices of turkey, and it's a nice meal.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 21, 2021, 05:20:57 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 22, 2021, 07:23:05 PM
Looks like it may hold up well in a panini
Definitely good panini bread or cheese toastie with some crunch to it.
(https://i.imgur.com/qavqRoDl.jpg)
It doesn't look like alot of jalapenos but it actually has quite a bit of jalapeno flavor to it. The juice from the pickled jalapenos kind of spreads through the whole thing since it sat in the fridge for about 16 hours. .
Post by: bregent on March 23, 2021, 01:37:53 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 23, 2021, 04:37:32 PM
Semolina Rye Sourdough
Awesome. I've used both but not together. Sounds good.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 23, 2021, 08:39:19 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on April 05, 2021, 09:34:52 AM
Made up some bread using the pizza dough recipe I had used the other week. The GF had a birthday party she was to bring garlic bread to so instead of buying loaves I decided to try to make some. These were only about 300 grams each and about 14" long. I also made some pepperoni rolls, hard salami, sandwich pepperoni, mozzarella. Took one into her for lunch on Friday she said it was gone in no time. It was probably 12" or so and had more in it than the smaller one I show here. She liked it so much that she wanted to make more on Sunday. So that was Easter for us fresh bread and pulled pork. The garlic bread went over well also.
I didn't think they would fit on pizza stone so baked on an aluminum sheet pan at 450 10 minutes with some water on a sheet pan for steam, and then about 15 minutes with out the water pan. I didn't have my usual dough issues as i left the kitchenaid do all the work. I still have a long ways to go and a lot of learning and experimenting to do I believe.
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 05, 2021, 11:05:24 AM
Post by: Bentley on April 05, 2021, 12:37:51 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on April 05, 2021, 07:21:54 PM
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on April 05, 2021, 07:36:31 PM
Post by: WiPelletHead on April 05, 2021, 08:16:54 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on April 05, 2021, 09:27:09 PM
it really was close to what I was hoping for. I remember having bread at someone's house a long time ago. but it was very crusty and the inside was very airy for lack of a better term, and very soft. Sadly the baker is no longer with us, and I was to young to inquire about it.
The GF is more of a soft non crusty bread person, not to say she won't eat half a loaf of this though.
I did learn not to just turn the kitchenaid on and walk to far away as it is doing the kneading for me, I got to it before it worked its way off the edge of the counter.
Post by: elenis on April 10, 2021, 11:19:20 PM
Will you please post the recipe for the rolls. Those are exactly what I have been trying for years to duplicate and have failed every time. One more try can't hurt.
The recipe for hoagie rolls came out of Bread Illustrated which is an America's Test kitchen book. The recipe is like any other you will see. I've quickly learned with the new mixer that most of what I was making (and probably most people using kitchenaid or hands) was under mixed. Mix until it truly passes a window pane test. The dough literally comes out of my mixer in one long springy strand with a single pull, and is smooth and silky.
This random video looks like most of the dough I've made lately.
https://youtu.be/V3c_l1MkE0o
I typically work in grams but this book is not written that way which is super annoying, although I've made a ton of good recipes out of it.
27.5 ounces bread flour
4 tsp active dry yeast
1 Tbs salt
16 ounces water
3 Tbs olive oil
1 large egg
4 tsp sugar
Whisk flour, yeast, and salt together. Whisk the water, oil, egg and sugar together in a separate bowl.
Add wet to the dry. Mix until smooth and passes window pane. I usually mix about half the flour in first and get that nice and smooth before adding the rest.
Take out of the bowl and do a few slap and folds kind of like the video above to create a smooth ball. Let rise for an hour or so. Punch down. I made five 12 inch loaves. They were about 270 grams each. May go down to 250 next time.
Press each ball into a 4 inch square. Fold the top half down into the center of the square. Rotate 180 and do the same on the other side. Take the top again and fold all the way to the other side to make a cylinder. Roll the cylinder out with your hands to about 12 inches.
I bought these silicone inserts like we used to use when I worked at subway in highschool. They are awesome for this type of bread. Put them seam side down on whatever you are cooking on.
(https://i.imgur.com/rfWHE2fl.jpg)
Cover loosely with greased plastic wrap until well risen. If you poke one lightly the indentation should hold without bouncing back much or looking like it's going to want to fall.
I slashed down the middle before baking (not sure if that's necessary).
Bake at 350 for 30 to 35 minutes.
They come out super light and springy. After cooling you can pretty much flatten with your hands and it will spring back to full height.
I just made the recipe without any expectations of what it would be similar to. It is VERY similar to jersey mike's bread. I'm going to do some rosemary parmesan ones soon as that is what we usually get our jersey mike's on.
Let me know how it goes if you make them.
I have been following along and the idea of being able to make Jersey Mike's type bread at home finally made me decide to give it a whirl. I bought the Bread Illustrated book you pulled the recipe from because this thread has greatly increased my knowledge of bread so I figured I have a ton to learn. I used Active Dry yeast which is think is part of the problem with my bread and I am not a super shaper, but this was my first attempt.
(https://i.imgur.com/Jdn4Pxn.jpg)
Those are after it proofed and I tried to score it.
(https://i.imgur.com/8KYi6yI.jpg)
After it baked.
(https://i.imgur.com/OntHM7J.jpg)\
The crumb picture.
My guess is I didn't let it rise enough? I have one of the KitchenAid Pro ones with the spiral dough hook and I was able to get the window pane test to work after mixing thanks to all I read as others did their bread journeys. It reminds me more of a French baguette inside though with a soft crust rather then what I was trying to go for, but thanks to you guys I at least finally tried. I am happy to finally have figured out how to do the images so now when I make things that actually turn out well I can take pictures.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on April 11, 2021, 06:57:08 AM
I would say you are probably correct on the under proofed comment. If you used the same dough amount as I did they should nearly fill up the mold when proofed, and start to touch when they spring in the oven.
A couple more attempts and you should nail it.
Here is a repeat picture of my rosemary parm bread for rising reference. By the way, I always use active dry yeast in my non sourdough bread.
(https://i.imgur.com/vyDkPDXl.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 11, 2021, 12:02:06 PM
Looks like you had the same issue I do, getting top to brown.
I think I will try an egg wash or coat top with melted butter next time.
Post by: elenis on April 11, 2021, 10:07:41 PM
That looks pretty good considering it's the first time with a recipe. It takes awhile to get the feel right. I've made hundreds of bread products, and still am not quite there with the feel.
I would say you are probably correct on the under proofed comment. If you used the same dough amount as I did they should nearly fill up the mold when proofed, and start to touch when they spring in the oven.
A couple more attempts and you should nail it.
Here is a repeat picture of my rosemary parm bread for rising reference. By the way, I always use active dry yeast in my non sourdough bread.
(https://i.imgur.com/vyDkPDXl.jpg)
Do you bloom the yeast then before adding or do you just have to extend the rise times? I just tossed it in with the dry ingredients for my attempt. It tastes good and I certainly did not expect it to turn out like you made it the first time, but I certainly wanted it to.
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 14, 2021, 04:54:50 PM
Recipe was to make 9 dinner rolls, but I made 6 burger buns instead.
Pretty close to Wonder Bread softness Bentley.
Had sliced it and put butter just to eat warm, then realized I should have taken a picture of the crumb.
So, the line across the second picture is butter.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on April 14, 2021, 05:30:34 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 14, 2021, 06:10:25 PM
Very nice looking buns. Care to share which recipe you used?
Thanks
It's about 7 pages so I won't put it in here. Not as scary as it sounds.
So if you Google "cleobuttera ultra fluffy milk bread rolls" the first hit should be it.
Near the bottom of the Notes section is says "Mostly adapted from King Arthur Flour"
So, I'm guessing King Arthur has what she started with and adjusted.
Post by: Bentley on April 14, 2021, 06:51:40 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 14, 2021, 06:54:10 PM
Went with burger buns first. Baby steps.
Real nice oven spring.
Post by: BigDave83 on April 14, 2021, 07:41:58 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 15, 2021, 12:21:07 PM
Those are nice rolls, hope you get try them out on some burgers.Chopped Brisket sandwich today...
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 19, 2021, 05:06:04 PM
Very good flavor. Crispy crust, soft center.
Post by: Bentley on April 20, 2021, 02:18:27 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 20, 2021, 02:48:06 PM
Tried another Bun recipe today.
The recipe makes 9 buns, heat oven to 400, put buns in, and reduce to 375.
Bake for 17 minutes.
Also says brushing butter on top is optional.
So, the 5 buns (in one bun ban) on the right were brushed with melted butter, right four (in another bun pan) were not.
Half way through the bake, the pans were swapped top to bottom, bottom to top, and rotated front to back.
So this was the result: The ones brushed with butter did not brown on top, and were over done on the bottom.
Ones without the butter came out perfect.
The two in the center front are flipped over.
Pretty strange...
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on April 20, 2021, 03:30:06 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on May 29, 2021, 10:39:44 PM
This is an "everything" sourdough.
(https://i.imgur.com/lL7flWCl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Zv3bTbcl.jpg)
This is a dill and white cheddar version. I haven't cut this one open yet.
(https://i.imgur.com/NbLg64fl.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on May 29, 2021, 10:50:44 PM
Post by: Darwin on May 29, 2021, 11:14:03 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 30, 2021, 12:53:15 PM
Need to start making some more Sourdough.
Post by: Kristin Meredith on July 01, 2021, 10:04:58 AM
https://www.crateandbarrel.com/kitchenaid-bread-bowl-with-baking-lid/s425203?utm_source=fbig&utm_medium=paid-social&utm_campaign=cb-kitchen-acq-non-promo&fbclid=IwAR0rcfc5TQ-RgVk0036NgAi8oQCZMf-3VWlxlqF8dcrqK39ibdq2zlcXGyg
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 01, 2021, 10:46:39 AM
Glad I don't have a Kitchenaid mixer or that would be one more thing I'd buy. ???
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on July 17, 2021, 06:49:14 PM
Anyone have this or seen it in operation?
https://www.crateandbarrel.com/kitchenaid-bread-bowl-with-baking-lid/s425203?utm_source=fbig&utm_medium=paid-social&utm_campaign=cb-kitchen-acq-non-promo&fbclid=IwAR0rcfc5TQ-RgVk0036NgAi8oQCZMf-3VWlxlqF8dcrqK39ibdq2zlcXGyg
If I still used the KitchenAid that would definitely be something I would give a try.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on July 17, 2021, 06:53:39 PM
The new recipe produces much better toast and an overall better texture. This was some of the best oven spring I've had to date.
(https://i.imgur.com/wxG4Y1Wl.jpg)
Post by: Chris__M on July 18, 2021, 03:42:27 AM
This was my Christmas present to myself in 2020, and I love it. I have the Mockmill 100, which is capable of milling 100g of grain a minute. A Mockmill 200 exists, but I would say that the model I have is absolutely fine for a hobby baker. For an idea of size, here's mine, next to my bread maker.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Using the breadmaker, which is limited in its proving times, I've so far made excellent bread with a 50%/50% mix of my own milled wholewheat, and supermarket white bread flour. Baking by hand (and I tend to use my grill as a bread oven), I've been making very decent 100% wholewheat loaves.
It will also mill other grains, of course, and even lentils and other legumes. The one thing you need to avoid is anything oily, as that can gum up the works and require cleaning. Spices too, although subsequent flour may be tainted (or flavoured, depending on your outlook).
It is a real milling action using ceramic milling stones, and the fineness of the milling is completely adjustable.
I'm kind of embarrassed that I don't have many pictures of my bread. Next time I do some baking, I'll take some snaps.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 18, 2021, 09:38:14 AM
Lots of people on the PM forum use the MockMill, but don't see what the benefit is over just buying flour.
Post by: Chris__M on July 18, 2021, 10:38:39 AM
Variety of flours - both type of grain used, but also fineness of milling.
Grain lasts longer than flour without losing quality, hence bulk buying is more feasible.
Fun. ;)
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 18, 2021, 11:32:14 AM
Fun.
Variety of flours - both type of grain used, but also fineness of milling.
Grain lasts longer than flour without losing quality, hence bulk buying is more feasible.
Fun. ;)
Gotcha...
Where do you buy the grain ?
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on July 18, 2021, 11:47:18 AM
Post by: Chris__M on July 18, 2021, 11:51:19 AM
Gotcha...
Where do you buy the grain ?
The last lot was online, due to the lockdown. In fact, that proved to be a good exercise, and I found a particularly good company who also did all manner of dried fruits and other such things (in England, of course, so not much good for you guys).
But under normal circumstances. I live in a little market town that borders a fair-side city (Peterborough) on one side, and a lot of rural countryside on the other. Farmshops a-plenty, a couple of which stock both flour and grain.
URLS, just in case another Brit comes along. ;)
https://www.buywholefoodsonline.co.uk/
https://hodmedods.co.uk
Post by: Chris__M on July 18, 2021, 11:57:34 AM
Although had been looking at the Mockmills for a good while, the thing that decided me, at the end of last year, was because there was a lot of panic buying going on, and a couple of times the supermarkets were out of Bread flour.
This irked me somewhat, as I've been baking bread for a while, and I'm pretty sure that many folk who cleared the shelves had never done so before, and probably have bags and bags of that flour even now.
I quickly established that the shortage was not flour itself, but flour packaged for domestic use. It was quite possible to order flour in sacks. But I used this as an excuse to order grain instead and get my Mockmill.
Soon after Christmas, the flour situation righted itself (all those people discovering making bread is too much trouble for them), but I'm content with what I have.
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 18, 2021, 12:33:57 PM
Gotcha...
Where do you buy the grain ?
The last lot was online, due to the lockdown. In fact, that proved to be a good exercise, and I found a particularly good company who also did all manner of dried fruits and other such things (in England, of course, so not much good for you guys).
But under normal circumstances. I live in a little market town that borders a fair-side city (Peterborough) on one side, and a lot of rural countryside on the other. Farmshops a-plenty, a couple of which stock both flour and grain.
URLS, just in case another Brit comes along. ;)
https://www.buywholefoodsonline.co.uk/
https://hodmedods.co.uk
Oh yeah. I forgot where you live. Hahahaha
Post by: Bentley on July 18, 2021, 05:37:46 PM
The bacon was just pulled from the Memphis Pro and is in the freezer right now preparing for slicing, and the tomato's are almost ready, so I figured two great slices of sourdough for a BLT for late lunch tomorrow would be Sweet!
If I can pull off a loaf anything like the ones I see in this thread tomorrow I will be ecstatic!
(https://i.imgur.com/Yrfv9ZNh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/D7HTKDoh.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on July 18, 2021, 06:11:33 PM
Split the baguette, topped with sliced fresh mozzarella, a handful of basil, a few sliced tomatoes, a bit of olive oil, and fresh ground pepper. Drizzled a bit of balsamic vinegar over the top.
It's amazing how good a sandwich can be with a few simple fresh ingredients.
Post by: Bentley on July 19, 2021, 01:04:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rUAyqJAh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GbYZaR4h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/p7MqudVh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on July 19, 2021, 01:08:02 PM
Obviously I cannot do that, any suggestions on how to cook this? Times, temperatures?
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 19, 2021, 01:37:25 PM
I just bake them right on a pizza stone in house oven or on the Memphis.
Should be fine like that.
You can use parchment paper if you like.
I think the benefit of the Dutch Oven is it has walls to keep the dough from flattening out, so it will be taller when it is done.
Post by: Bentley on July 19, 2021, 03:27:04 PM
Post by: Bentley on July 19, 2021, 04:16:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lbU6Kv0h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GGJPx6yh.jpg)
Post by: Kristin Meredith on July 19, 2021, 04:17:35 PM
Post by: Bentley on July 19, 2021, 04:21:58 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 19, 2021, 04:23:43 PM
Maybe has something to do with the Dutch Oven. Dunno...
The steam helps to make a crispy crust.
I'd check at 20 minutes and then start checking IT for 195ish.
Or, just stick a Maverick or Smoke probe in and have it alert you at 195.
Bread can be done anywhere from 190 up.
EDIT: Looks like my post is a wee bit late. Hahahaha
Post by: Bentley on July 19, 2021, 04:43:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gOfcWsHl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gS4OuCch.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wxG4Y1Wl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ad74zU0h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YvVjUDJh.jpg)
Post by: BigDave83 on July 19, 2021, 04:44:20 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 19, 2021, 05:37:35 PM
And if I can get my loafs to have the finish like some of these I will know I have arrived! The Lahm I am not good with! I would also like mine to be larger like thses, so I will have to work on that!
I've found that you need a fast swipe with the Lame.
Slow just drags in the dough and makes it ragged.
It does take practice.
Post by: Chris__M on July 19, 2021, 06:11:46 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on July 19, 2021, 10:15:50 PM
The preheated dutch oven traps steam and that is how you get the really good oven spring. An electric oven sprayed with water can have the same effect or a hotel pan over a stone.
Because I have a gas oven which is vented my only option for oven spring is the dutch oven or hotel pan. I preheat my two dutch ovens and spray the bread with water after dropping in the dutch oven. I then also spray the hot lid of the dutch oven before enclosing and baking covered at 475 for 20 minutes.
I then uncover and bake for 15 minutes more still in the uncovered dutch oven. I have gotten really good results this way.
I have a dedicated bread oven (nero400) on order that is supposed to be here end of August or beginning of September. Hoping to ditch the dutch oven method when it arrives.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on July 19, 2021, 11:43:22 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 20, 2021, 10:54:21 AM
I have a dedicated bread oven (nero400) on order that is supposed to be here end of August or beginning of September.
I looked up that oven and it is pretty big and heavy. Weighs 274 lbs, also requires 240V/20A circuit.
You must be planning on some serious bread making.
Seriously though, it looks like one sweet oven! Has steam capability.
I'd have to have it on a dedicated cart to use it my kitchen, then find someplace to store it when not in use.
When I get to my 2nd round of house upgrades, I'm thinking of replacing my ovens with Miele ovens. They have steam capability.
That's a few years away though.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on July 20, 2021, 04:09:13 PM
I have a dedicated bread oven (nero400) on order that is supposed to be here end of August or beginning of September.
I looked up that oven and it is pretty big and heavy. Weighs 274 lbs, also requires 240V/20A circuit.
You must be planning on some serious bread making.
Seriously though, it looks like one sweet oven! Has steam capability.
I'd have to have it on a dedicated cart to use it my kitchen, then find someplace to store it when not in use.
When I get to my 2nd round of house upgrades, I'm thinking of replacing my ovens with Miele ovens. They have steam capability.
That's a few years away though.
Long story that I will try to make short. We had a workshop in our garage that we had to convert to a finished room because our granddaughter came to live with us for a year.
The room sits directly behind our pantry. I am planning on turning that 11 x 10 room into a butler pantry of sorts.
I've attached the proposed floorplan for reference.
(https://i.imgur.com/V2Jqq0Jl.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on July 20, 2021, 04:43:42 PM
Get a fridge with freezer, your mixer(s), a few bowls & utensils in there, and you will have a self-contained baking room.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on July 20, 2021, 04:47:00 PM
Nice!!!
Get a fridge with freezer, your mixer(s), a few bowls & utensils in there, and you will have a self-contained baking room.
Hot/Cold water and a big sink to clean large items in would be a good idea too.
I'm still trying to figure out how you get into the room. Looks like you need to walk through the pantry
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on July 20, 2021, 05:18:20 PM
Nice!!!
Get a fridge with freezer, your mixer(s), a few bowls & utensils in there, and you will have a self-contained baking room.
Hot/Cold water and a big sink to clean large items in would be a good idea too.
I'm still trying to figure out how you get into the room. Looks like you need to walk through the pantry
Water is my only real issue. Actually the drain is the issue. I could get water over there from behind the fridge but I don't have a drain. We are on a slab so it would be very costly.
Access is through the pantry. That is what I like about it. Kind of hidden away and no one would know it's there. Also, there are 2 high windows so it doesn't feel like a dungeon.
Post by: Bentley on July 20, 2021, 05:37:15 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on July 20, 2021, 07:00:39 PM
I say walk in fridge and freezer..
I've been looking around for under counter fridge options. I don't really need a freezer. A proofer would be nice as well. I believe there is a proofer/fridge combo popular in bread circles but the name escapes me at the moment.
Post by: Bentley on July 23, 2021, 05:51:41 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on July 23, 2021, 06:30:11 PM
When you all are making the loafs of Sourdough, do you recall what the weight of the raw dough is? Is there a standard? Also, how can you make the loaf higher? Mine seem to spread out, am I over/under proofing? I like this Alton no kneading recipe, but I am not sure if I need one of those proofing bowls.
The raw weight depends on the size of loaves you are making. With my medium size bannetons I like to make about 700 g loaves.
The spreading could be due to under mixing and/or flour used. The mixing makes the gluten network. The protein content in the flour among other things dictate how much mixing is needed to provide the strength needed for your dough to stand up.
If you are using decent bread flour, I'd try to do a few rounds of stretch and folds by hand in 30 minutes intervals after your initial mix in the mixer and see if that improves your results.
Post by: Bentley on July 23, 2021, 06:37:15 PM
Was kind of wondering if the proofing bowls were used to make the loaf go up more then out?
Post by: bregent on July 23, 2021, 07:35:59 PM
Seems that no matter ho much weight the raw dough is it spreads out to much. This is no knead, so I am assuming you get what you get. I wonder after the 19 hour fermentation, instead of just slapping a few times and making into ball, I could work it with the hook for 10 minutes or so and see if that will make it "firm" up?
Was kind of wondering if the proofing bowls were used to make the loaf go up more then out?
Are you using a Dutch oven to bake in, or baking directly on a stone?
I had great success using the classic Jim Lahey no-knead formula from the NY Times. The long fermentation times should provide plenty of gluten formation, but they don't really give you a strong dough that holds it shape well without a Dutch oven.
I haven't used that method for the past two years and instead use the Tartine method of stretch and folds. I still use a Dutch oven to develop a good crunchy crust, but the dough would hold it's shape well without it. I typically make sourdough, but you can make yeast bread with this method as well.
Post by: Bentley on July 23, 2021, 08:23:02 PM
Post by: bregent on July 23, 2021, 09:07:16 PM
I like it because it doesn't have a long handle that could get in the way in the oven or counter and storage. It was only $30 when I got it in 2016 - prices have soared.
Here's a SD loaf just out of the oven that my niece helped with:
Post by: BigDave83 on July 24, 2021, 08:22:54 AM
There is an Amazon Basics version that looks pretty much the same, i didn't check the weights of each, but it is only 42 bucks.
https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Quart-Enameled-Dutch-Enamel/dp/B000N4WN08/ref=sr_1_5?crid=21A06MUGUH0K&dchild=1&keywords=dutch+oven+cast+iron&qid=1627129109&sprefix=dutch+oven%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-5
https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Enameled-Covered-Dutch-6-Quart/dp/B073Q9WV8S/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=21A06MUGUH0K&dchild=1&keywords=dutch%2Boven%2Bcast%2Biron&qid=1627129311&sprefix=dutch%2Boven%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzTTMxM1lWWTJBTE4wJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjIyOTc5N1c4U1cyTFYzQUsmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDM0NjYxMjM5NUI1WTEwWUZTTlUmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1
Post by: bregent on July 24, 2021, 01:15:32 PM
Post by: Bentley on August 05, 2021, 01:33:29 PM
Loaf of Sourdough being baked in it right now.
(https://i.imgur.com/RPXsyYNh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/INtCyqth.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JkDmgvuh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on August 05, 2021, 02:08:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/2nqeTcMh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3vWn4V9h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5rNpnzfh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on August 05, 2021, 02:53:08 PM
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on August 05, 2021, 06:36:25 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on August 05, 2021, 07:30:14 PM
With a gas oven, the only way to trap steam is an enclosure like a hotel pan or dutch oven. The dutch oven was a game changer in my current setup.
Post by: bregent on August 05, 2021, 08:09:12 PM
It's nearly impossible to get enough moisture for a good crust in a household oven without using a Dutch oven or similar to trap steam. Steam from water pans mostly go out the vent.
Bentley, if you do decide to proof in the Dutch oven be sure to add plenty of flour or it will stick. One of the advantages of adding dough to preheated cast iron is that flour is not really needed.
I'm not sure how big of a loaf that was, but for a 950 gram loaf I bake at 450 for 20 minutes covered, then about 20 minutes more uncovered. If you haven't already, test the oven temp with a 3rd party therm.
Post by: Bentley on August 05, 2021, 08:59:44 PM
Kristin wants dinner rolls for a friend on Saturday, so I hope this recipe will work. Do you all have any idea how many grams a dinner roll is?
Post by: BigDave83 on August 05, 2021, 09:19:42 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on August 05, 2021, 09:22:27 PM
FMT - all household ovens, even electric, are vented.
It's nearly impossible to get enough moisture for a good crust in a household oven without using a Dutch oven or similar to trap steam. Steam from water pans mostly go out the vent.
Bentley, if you do decide to proof in the Dutch oven be sure to add plenty of flour or it will stick. One of the advantages of adding dough to preheated cast iron is that flour is not really needed.
I'm not sure how big of a loaf that was, but for a 950 gram loaf I bake at 450 for 20 minutes covered, then about 20 minutes more uncovered. If you haven't already, test the oven temp with a 3rd party therm.
Good to know. From most of what I have read people seemed to be happy with electric ovens. I didn't realize they were also vented.
Post by: Chris__M on August 06, 2021, 09:10:22 AM
However, as a result of some of the posts here, I've just picked up this 5 quart Overmont CI Dutch Oven. Much reduced on Amazon UK, and now out of stock, suggesting I got the last one! :D
Like the Lodge one, the lid will lie flat, so can also be used as a useful shallow dish. Looking forward to trying it out.
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Post by: bregent on August 06, 2021, 12:15:26 PM
For large slices, you need good height but you probably also want to make a somewhat oblong loaf, to get the most uniform slices. Round loaves give you more varied slices. My DO is round, but I proof in an oblong banneton and get a good amount of sandwich slices per loaf. Here are some examples
Post by: Bentley on August 06, 2021, 12:21:02 PM
Post by: bregent on August 06, 2021, 01:12:40 PM
My issue is knowing when it has proofed enough, then if I handle it it deflates. I have not over come those issues yet, so the reason why I want to proof in what I cook in is to lessen steps!
If it's deflating that could be a sign of over-proofing, but I think it's just as likely that the dough is not strong enough. Not sure if you already mentioned it in this thread, but what is your recipe and workflow for this bread? What flour are you using?
Post by: Bentley on August 06, 2021, 01:44:30 PM
I must say it is a great bread with AP, but I certainly slipped up on the flour. Will get Bread and try it. I have also wondered if I put it in the KA and kneaded it for about 10 minutes if it might work the gluten in the flour and create a stronger dough. That would defeat the no knead, but I could careless about that.
Post by: bregent on August 06, 2021, 02:16:26 PM
I see his recipe calls for kosher salt by volume, but he doesn't specify which brand. The two major brands differ greatly by volume. I'd suggest weighing the salt, and it really doesn't matter which type - kosher, table, sea, etc. Just don't use iodized. For that recipe you probably want around 9 grams.
Post by: Bentley on August 06, 2021, 04:17:54 PM
Post by: Bentley on August 07, 2021, 12:35:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JLpwaefh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Naqe3QJh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on August 17, 2021, 11:49:08 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on August 17, 2021, 12:26:00 PM
Got Bread flour, so will be curious to see if the loaf "stand up" better now. And I guess I have been saying "proofing", was watching a show on TV and they called it proving so I guess I should be saying "proving"!
Most of the European books/people seem to say proving. I think proofing is still the widely accepted American term.
Bread flour should help with strength, but the mixing is still the most important factor. I learned pretty fast with the new mixer what I had been doing wrong for so long.
Post by: bregent on August 17, 2021, 01:12:16 PM
I think Bentley is making no-knead bread, right?
Post by: Bentley on August 17, 2021, 03:15:42 PM
Post by: Bentley on August 18, 2021, 05:58:21 PM
Finally had the guts to cook it the entire 30 minutes in DO w/lid on and then the 15 with it off. Does not look the worse for wear! BLT tomorrow for lunch!
(https://i.imgur.com/VSalqBFh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XPOGtqph.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on August 18, 2021, 06:02:48 PM
https://wallys-deli.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/60978_Allentown-Menu-color-2017-Lamninated-1.pdf
Post by: Bentley on August 18, 2021, 06:06:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pbxAYK5h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6YvhWXZh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on August 27, 2021, 04:35:27 PM
I may have over kneaded it, they said not to do to much as you did not want any real gluten formation. Might give it one more try and cut the kneading in half. I do think it wil be a good French Toast bread.
(https://i.imgur.com/EF02ZMeh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y5SgA7Uh.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on September 05, 2021, 01:36:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pCTZlRZl.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on September 05, 2021, 02:24:13 PM
Post by: Bentley on September 05, 2021, 02:39:27 PM
Post by: yorkdude on September 05, 2021, 05:06:47 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on September 05, 2021, 06:20:48 PM
I make some sourdough crackers with Rosemary in them and they are very tasty, so I'm sure those are. :clap:
Post by: yorkdude on September 19, 2021, 09:06:13 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on September 19, 2021, 11:12:36 AM
When we stop for bagels I always get the cheese & green chili one.
Post by: Bentley on September 19, 2021, 02:06:57 PM
Post by: yorkdude on September 19, 2021, 02:15:01 PM
It is not a heat resistant cheese is it? Now does it not melt when it bakes?I don’t really know much about cheese other than we eat a lot of it. Our SIL, is the refridgeration, maintenance lead at Alma cheese. We ate plenty before he worked there and even more now.
A very constant supply to say the least.
Post by: BigDave83 on September 19, 2021, 07:56:23 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on September 20, 2021, 08:09:11 PM
Zucchini Bread
Post by: Bentley on September 20, 2021, 09:40:46 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on September 21, 2021, 08:24:50 AM
My banana nut bread will crown like that. I have come to learn that it is from over mixing and not waiting about 20 minutes to put in oven after putting in pan!
Thank you I will try that. I just figured it was because I upped the amount of baking powder and soda in it after my first attempt. I do put it in the pans and into the oven right away. I had thought about baking at a lower temp next time maybe also. But will try the 20 minute rest instead. I do not remember if my banana bread does that or not. I will no doubt be making some of it in the next week or so.
Post by: 02ebz06 on September 21, 2021, 11:30:14 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 15, 2021, 11:11:35 AM
It's slightly bigger than I imagined, but built better than I thought it would be. It's a solid unit.
(https://i.imgur.com/63X74i7l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FSIqeFml.jpg)
Post by: yorkdude on October 15, 2021, 08:19:30 PM
The new bread oven came a couple days ago. I still have to get an extra 220 outlet installed so it will be a little bit before I start baking in it.Uh…..you dont mess around, not even a little bit.
It's slightly bigger than I imagined, but built better than I thought it would be. It's a solid unit.
(https://i.imgur.com/63X74i7l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FSIqeFml.jpg)
Nicely done.
Post by: 02ebz06 on October 20, 2021, 05:49:34 PM
The new bread oven came a couple days ago. I still have to get an extra 220 outlet installed so it will be a little bit before I start baking in it.
It's slightly bigger than I imagined, but built better than I thought it would be. It's a solid unit.
Nice unit!!! Will have to Google it.
Post by: Bentley on October 20, 2021, 05:51:07 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 20, 2021, 09:05:25 PM
Bentley, it is a sealed unit but no built in steam production. They sell heavy duty narrow trays that are supposed to work well. I'm going to experiment some when I'm up and running. Most people seem to use one of those commercial pressure sprayers and just give it a good once over before closing the door for the first 20 minutes.
I'm looking forward to giving pizza a go. It's supposed to get to 570+ which should be perfect for my style pizza.
Post by: hughver on October 21, 2021, 11:48:45 AM
Post by: BigDave83 on October 22, 2021, 08:28:20 AM
As I mentioned in an earlier post, While in the hospital bored to tears, I bought an Anova steam oven. I have not tried bread yet but Zucchi bread is on the agenda for today or tomorrow.
Will be waiting to see your thoughts. I have a Breville smart oven it has quite a few years on it and the convection fan is making noises. I was thinking of the Anova for a possible replacement.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 22, 2021, 09:05:38 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on October 22, 2021, 12:14:54 PM
I believe I'm going to leave it in the garage for now until I figure out a more permanent place. I can have a 220 installed next to the electrical panel so it should be easy. They are supposed to do it this week. We will see.
Bentley, it is a sealed unit but no built in steam production. They sell heavy duty narrow trays that are supposed to work well. I'm going to experiment some when I'm up and running. Most people seem to use one of those commercial pressure sprayers and just give it a good once over before closing the door for the first 20 minutes.
I'm looking forward to giving pizza a go. It's supposed to get to 570+ which should be perfect for my style pizza.
Looked over the specs. Nice oven.
Requires 240v/20a which would be OK for me as I had an outlet put in kitchen when it was remodeled.
Looks like a nice cart and you need it with it weighing 274lbs.
I found this interesting:
"The oven comes with stand, steam trays and baking trays if required"
So do you just tell them they are required and they "give" them to you ?
Couldn't find price, guess you have to call to get that.
Anxious to see how it works for you.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 22, 2021, 06:26:59 PM
I believe I'm going to leave it in the garage for now until I figure out a more permanent place. I can have a 220 installed next to the electrical panel so it should be easy. They are supposed to do it this week. We will see.
Bentley, it is a sealed unit but no built in steam production. They sell heavy duty narrow trays that are supposed to work well. I'm going to experiment some when I'm up and running. Most people seem to use one of those commercial pressure sprayers and just give it a good once over before closing the door for the first 20 minutes.
I'm looking forward to giving pizza a go. It's supposed to get to 570+ which should be perfect for my style pizza.
Looked over the specs. Nice oven.
Requires 240v/20a which would be OK for me as I had an outlet put in kitchen when it was remodeled.
Looks like a nice cart and you need it with it weighing 274lbs.
I found this interesting:
"The oven comes with stand, steam trays and baking trays if required"
So do you just tell them they are required and they "give" them to you ?
Couldn't find price, guess you have to call to get that.
Anxious to see how it works for you.
The stand is 675. Not sure how much the steam trays are. Rofcos are about 70 a piece so I bet they are close to that. The oven was 3400 plus 400 shipping or so.
Post by: 02ebz06 on October 22, 2021, 07:12:05 PM
Did you get the stand or do you have one ?
Not something you want to carry around...
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 23, 2021, 03:01:04 AM
Wow, pretty price add-ons.
Did you get the stand or do you have one ?
Not something you want to carry around...
I didn't get the stand. I will probably just get a stainless steel table to put it on for now. I went to the restaurant supply store I buy alot of stuff from last weekend . They usually have all kinds of tables for decent prices. They had nothing because of supply chain issues.
The original plan was to turn a room in the house into sort of a butlers pantry which would have had a spot for the oven, but we are considering moving so I'm holding off on blowing up that room that nearly no one would want for that purpose.
Post by: 02ebz06 on October 23, 2021, 11:25:55 AM
Wow, pretty price add-ons.
Did you get the stand or do you have one ?
Not something you want to carry around...
I didn't get the stand. I will probably just get a stainless steel table to put it on for now. I went to the restaurant supply store I buy alot of stuff from last weekend . They usually have all kinds of tables for decent prices. They had nothing because of supply chain issues.
The original plan was to turn a room in the house into sort of a butlers pantry which would have had a spot for the oven, but we are considering moving so I'm holding off on blowing up that room that nearly no one would want for that purpose.
Oh yeah, I remember you talking about the Butler Pantry idea.
Are housing prices crazy by you like here.
All prices paid are above asking price. My Real Estate friend told me she had one house that had 22 offers on it.
I'd like to sell mine, but have no place to go.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 23, 2021, 02:10:11 PM
Wow, pretty price add-ons.
Did you get the stand or do you have one ?
Not something you want to carry around...
I didn't get the stand. I will probably just get a stainless steel table to put it on for now. I went to the restaurant supply store I buy alot of stuff from last weekend . They usually have all kinds of tables for decent prices. They had nothing because of supply chain issues.
The original plan was to turn a room in the house into sort of a butlers pantry which would have had a spot for the oven, but we are considering moving so I'm holding off on blowing up that room that nearly no one would want for that purpose.
Oh yeah, I remember you talking about the Butler Pantry idea.
Are housing prices crazy by you like here.
All prices paid are above asking price. My Real Estate friend told me she had one house that had 22 offers on it.
I'd like to sell mine, but have no place to go.
Prices are inflated all around, but the market has cooled some. If it's a nice house in a desirable area it usually sells quickly at asking price. We don't typically have the 20 offer stuff. Maybe 2 or 3 people interested at once.
We currently live in a villa now in the suburbs where yard, landscape, snow etc are taken care of. They don't usually move as fast because it's an older crowd and the fees for the maintenance. They are still in demand though and getting top dollar.
Our downtown area is hot and there is a historical district within walking distance of all the new downtown stuff. We are thinking of buying an old home in that district. Most were built late 1800s to early 1900s. The first house we bought when we got married was built in 1920 and we've always missed it.
We've built 5 houses and are done with that so this is attractive to us at the moment.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 27, 2021, 07:30:40 PM
I heated to 475 and turned the unit off. A couple hours later the stones were still over 400. Several hours later they were at around 350. The next morning they were still around 150. I wasn't expecting even close to that retention.
(https://i.imgur.com/0h2gH0ul.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/271hD1Al.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on October 28, 2021, 10:45:03 AM
Post by: Bentley on October 28, 2021, 11:42:04 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 28, 2021, 04:48:17 PM
Where are, and how many heating elements are there?
4 elements total. One below and above each stone, and they each can be controlled independently.
First batch this afternoon. Pretty happy considering it's a new oven. I will make some adjustments next time, but certainly is promising.
(https://i.imgur.com/M6I7bV0l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/63ziPXql.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on October 28, 2021, 07:05:34 PM
Post by: yorkdude on October 29, 2021, 04:52:21 AM
Post by: Bentley on October 29, 2021, 10:17:14 AM
Lastly would you post the recipe for those loafs here and I will try and make them and see if I can get mine to stay tall like those.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 29, 2021, 05:18:15 PM
If your loaves are flattening out they just aren't strong enough. If you are using bread flour then that shouldn't be the issue. It just needs more mixing. If you are doing the no knead recipe, I'm not sure where the dough develops it's strength (time?). I know pro bakers that have made a living with it (Jim Lahey) so it's obviously possible.
Mine are proofed in 10 inch oval bannetons from central milling. Flipped out on either parchment paper or the peel. Slashed, sprayed with water, and launched to the stone. You can be fairly rough with them and they stay firm and sturdy.
You can learn alot about dough in this channels videos. This guy kind of yammers on many times but is a wealth of info for new bakers. They started in a garage a few years ago knowing nothing about baking and now have just recently moved to a brick and mortar after being forced out of their garage. If you go back in their videos it is actually a pretty awesome story. Most of them are long form like an hour or so unlike most fast and furious channels and they are very informative. At the 1:15 mark or so of this video you can see him flipping out the bread. It looks very similar to mine in the way he flips it. The bannetons are the same as well. I don't use liners though.
https://youtu.be/0S2vlh9_Fhc
I will post the recipe in a little bit.
Post by: Bentley on October 29, 2021, 05:51:08 PM
Post by: bregent on October 29, 2021, 06:19:00 PM
Yes, time is correct. Dough with long fermentation times do need need mixing because the gluten develops over time. I also don't use a mixer for my sourdoughs - I use only 3-4 stretch and folders over the course of about 4 hours. The dough is very strong and will hold its shape for freeform loaves.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 29, 2021, 06:40:50 PM
You knead/mix dough to a temperature?
With this mixer yes. I start out with cold water and cold flour if possible. The mixer heats up the dough some and if it's gets too hot the gluten network breaks. I mix to 78F on the infrared gun and that is typically perfect.
Post by: Bentley on October 29, 2021, 08:52:14 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 29, 2021, 09:04:26 PM
I figured that the dough was not firm enough. I have been using bread flour, but did not notice a lot of difference. But maybe King Arthur in not a quality bread flour. Will try and use the temperature tip on the kneading, it is as good a place as any to start.
I've made loaves with 100% king arthur bread flour. It is perfectly fine to use and can bring good results. Have you done the window pane test? Also, if you watch enough videos bread guys will just pick a portion of the dough and give it a solid wiggle. If it stretches along with the back and forth of the wiggle without tearing that is a good sign.
After I mix, I wet my hands and hand scrape the dough from the bowl. I can pick up the entire batch (sometimes up to 7 or 8 pounds) and it will just come out of the bowl in one giant stretchy mass. That is kind of what you are looking for.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 29, 2021, 09:17:07 PM
30 g starter
210g water
210g king arthur bread flour
Let sit until double, about 8 to 12 hours. Add this to:
440 g water
175 g king arthur all purpose
175 g central milling beehive all purpose
175 g king arthur bread flour
175 g central millings bakers craft bread flour
50 g central milling high mountain
24 g kosher salt
Mix. Autolyse 30 minutes. Add salt. Mix to 78 degrees. Room temp bulk ferment until doubled or stick in fridge for 24 hours or so. If refrigerated let sit out for an hour or so. Pre-shape to rectangle shape. Wait 15 minutes. Final shape and place in rice floured bannetons. Let rise until doubled and pillowy.
Bake 475 covered or steam for 20 minutes. 15 minutes uncovered.
Note:. It's basically a 50/50 mix of bread and all purpose. I wouldn't sweat too much over the brand.
Post by: Bentley on October 29, 2021, 11:08:23 PM
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on October 30, 2021, 02:37:27 AM
My biggest concern making bread is that I have no experience but yet would want to buy the high end equipment that you have.
I may invest in your equipment after I retire.
Show us a pizza in that oven and I may be hooked.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 30, 2021, 05:17:20 AM
FMT. you make it look so easy.
My biggest concern making bread is that I have no experience but yet would want to buy the high end equipment that you have.
I may invest in your equipment after I retire.
Show us a pizza in that oven and I may be hooked.
Thank you. Just like BBQ it is daunting until you do it over and over and over. Once it becomes second nature, it starts to seem easy.
I made a very small pizza with a piece of leftover bread dough I had. I was impressed with it. I think it will make a great pizza oven. I will definitely show some pics when I make a normal batch.
I tend to go a bit overboard with equipment, but I've also enjoyed working with almost everything I've purchased so it's worth it to me. The spiral mixer was something I should have purchased 10 years ago.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 30, 2021, 06:56:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qJdbxlxl.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on October 30, 2021, 07:34:53 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on October 31, 2021, 05:43:10 AM
They look like they cooked well. From what I know of the baguette (and this knowledge is based only on the ones I have had in France), you just need to reduce the diameter!
What are they in France? I saw some info that says 2 inches after I saw your message. These are about 3 inches.
Post by: Bentley on October 31, 2021, 12:30:41 PM
Post by: Bentley on November 05, 2021, 10:03:02 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 05, 2021, 12:07:58 PM
I have not done this but believe it should come out similar but possibly with shorter rise times as sourdough is typically slower to ferment.
The high mountain flour is a high gluten bread flour. Hi gluten will definitely help your structure, but also will make it chewy if you use too much.
Post by: Bentley on November 05, 2021, 01:31:39 PM
I assumed 1st step was to put 30g of starter (I am also assuming this is a separate item from next 2), 210g water and 210g bread flour.
I am also assuming you make the starter by taking 1.5g of active dry yeast in with 225g water and 225g flour? It would sit how long? You would then add 30g of that to the 210 water and flour?
No wonder my breads don't work, I have 15 times the yeast in them then is needed!
This is the basic recipe for 2 loaves at 780-800 grams a piece.
30 g starter
210g water
210g king arthur bread flour
Let sit until double, about 8 to 12 hours. Add this to:
The starter is 50/50 water and flour. You could put 1.5g of active dry yeast in with 225g water and 225g flour in the first step of the recipe (that is taking the 15g of water and 15g of flour in the starter and adding it to the recipe.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 05, 2021, 04:15:43 PM
What is 50 beads of yeast equated to? A quarter tsp? A half tsp?
You should be fine with what you are doing. Once that doubles, just add the rest of the ingredients to that mixture. If you used too much yeast it will just double faster. Not a big deal.
Post by: Bentley on November 05, 2021, 04:17:47 PM
What is 50 beads of yeast equated to? A quarter tsp? A half tsp?
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 05, 2021, 05:14:13 PM
Even less, a half a pinch! So should the 50/50 be left uncovered? If I am hearing right, this bread has no added yeast? Just what falls out of the sky? Just trying to get on the same page.What is 50 beads of yeast equated to? A quarter tsp? A half tsp?
I usually lightly cover the original mix with a lid, but it probably doesn't have to be.
This recipe has no added yeast. Just natural starter. The baguette recipe I use basically follows the same principal, and it uses commercial yeast. A pinch in the 50/50 first mix and then another pinch when you mix the rest of the ingredients in. I would try that if I were in your shoes. Just add a pinch when you mix the rest.
Post by: Bentley on November 05, 2021, 05:57:52 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 05, 2021, 08:16:43 PM
One last thing, as late as it is. Will the starter last till the morning (should it be refridgerated?), or if I mix it all now, can I put it in fridge and bake tomorrow?
It will be fine in the fridge. If it's not at its peak tomorrow it will just take a little longer to rise.
Post by: Bentley on November 05, 2021, 10:08:10 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 06, 2021, 04:11:09 AM
Well, I decided to mix tonight. It took about 20 minutes to get to 78°. Was still wet, so I tried to do the slap kneading. That seemed to help, I added a touch more flour in my slap kneading. I did not get to the stage that guy does on youtube, but I got closer then I ever have. Tried the window paine, it seemed to work. We see if the fridge Richards me!
I use the fridge all the time. You are simply controlling the fermentation with temperature. It typically develops a bit more flavor with time in the fridge as well.
Post by: Bentley on November 06, 2021, 12:21:20 PM
I realize these were not proofed in the bannetons, as I don't have any. I also do not believe that would have made a difference with this dough. I have to believe this dough in simply not as firm as it is supposed to be. This photo is an 815g loaf on a baking sheet after a 45 min proof. Flattened, like the dough is not firm enough, ehh? I simply knew it was not going to come out the way I want, so it is being turned into sandwich rolls. I am led to believe by the internet that bread dough is 13-14% protein. I see that King Arthur Bread dough is 12.7% not sure if that could be making the difference. It obviously does not in FMT loaves. So I am missing a component of why my dough will not hold shape. When I figure that out, I will be there I believe.
Is it a correct assumption that the more you work/knead bread the stiffer the dough will become? Can a dough be over kneaded? I guess my next batch will be a 40 minute knead to to get a baseline.
(https://i.imgur.com/mwfVYdGh.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 06, 2021, 12:29:43 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 06, 2021, 01:16:51 PM
Bentley, I know you've been trying different types of bread, but I would suggest you try one and stick with it until you get your procedure down and are happy with the results.
When you can reproduce the results consistently, then try another type.
Just my :2cents:
Post by: Bentley on November 06, 2021, 01:17:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8oPxPPUh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on November 07, 2021, 06:34:37 PM
I have the no knead down. I have sandwich rolls down, at least for me. They are not the quality of others on here, but I am happy with them. Those are about the only others I have tried. Can't seem to get the "artisan" bread though...kind of like a biscuit for me. I will just keep trying.
Bentley, I know you've been trying different types of bread, but I would suggest you try one and stick with it until you get your procedure down and are happy with the results.
When you can reproduce the results consistently, then try another type.
Just my :2cents:
(https://i.imgur.com/XjRawZ1h.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on November 07, 2021, 08:02:13 PM
Very crusty, maybe a tad to long in the heat. It certainly seems like it will be good sandwich bread, i will put it through the slicer. And I will try to make a starter again and start all over again later in the week!
(https://i.imgur.com/kUzn3SGh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0lpsBR6h.jpg)
Post by: BigDave83 on November 07, 2021, 09:12:46 PM
Most I have read or watched on YT were several day events, before you get something that you can use.
Here is one I was thinking of trying when I get around to it.
https://melissaknorris.com/podcast/5-tips-on-how-to-get-started-with-sourdough/#wprm-recipe-container-27737 She also has a video of it on YT,
2 others I had seen on YT were Brian Langetstrom and Joshua Weissmann.
Would sourdough make for a good garlic bread?
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 08, 2021, 06:08:50 AM
I have got several starters going over the years, and they almost always take about 2 weeks to get moving. The simplest I can make it is take 100g water and 100g unbleached flour (as stated above it will not work with bleached flour) and mix together. Let it sit for 8 hours or overnight. In the morning, take 50g of that mixture, add 100g water and 100g flour. Mix. Do that again in the evening. Then morning, then evening. And so on for about 2 weeks.
You will see varying level of activity here and there throughout the process, and then one day it will just kind of take off. It will start doubling every 6 to 8 hours. At that point, you can just feed it once a day (doesn't really matter when or even if you forget for a couple days). You now have an established starter that will raise bread consistently.
A tip for less hassle with the cleanup. Go to Gordon food service or restaurant supply store that sells the plastic deli containers and lids. You can get a bunch of them for not much money. Use a fresh one every time you feed the starter. Just throw the used one in the dishwasher. So many people try to use glass jars for their starter and it is a mess.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 08, 2021, 06:20:19 AM
Would sourdough make for a good garlic bread?
Sourdough starter can make any kind of bread. It's not really sour at all unless you manipulate the process to make it sour. If you use starter at its peak with room temperature rises the bread won't taste a whole lot different than using commercial yeast.
You can use starter off peak or long fridge fermentation times to get a more sour flavor if that is what is desired.
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 08, 2021, 11:43:42 AM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My understanding is the yeast come from the flour and air.
Here is one I was thinking of trying when I get around to it.
https://melissaknorris.com/podcast/5-tips-on-how-to-get-started-with-sourdough/#wprm-recipe-container-27737 She also has a video of it on YT,
Yeast does comes from the air.
And I'm guessing that depending on where a person lives live may have a lot to do with the amount in the air.
Instead of going through all the water/flour and twice daily feedings for a month to maybe get a colony growing, why not start with an established colony?
I dry the discards, grind it in a coffee grinder, put it in packets and freeze it.
Then, when I want to make sourdough bread I take a packet out of the freezer and in 3-5 days I have starter ready to go.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 08, 2021, 12:05:03 PM
I add Sour Salt (Citric Acid) to give mine a more sour taste.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------My understanding is the yeast come from the flour and air.
Here is one I was thinking of trying when I get around to it.
https://melissaknorris.com/podcast/5-tips-on-how-to-get-started-with-sourdough/#wprm-recipe-container-27737 She also has a video of it on YT,
Yeast does comes from the air.
And I'm guessing that depending on where a person lives live may have a lot to do with the amount in the air.
Instead of going through all the water/flour and twice daily feedings for a month to maybe get a colony growing, why not start with an established colony?
I dry the discards, grind it in a coffee grinder, put it in packets and freeze it.
Then. when I want to make sourdough bread I take a packet out of the freezer and in 3-5 days I have starter ready to go.
I have mine dried like this as well. Between the 2 of us we should be able to get you something in the mail that will be up and running as soon as you add water.
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 08, 2021, 12:54:36 PM
I have mine dried like this as well. Between the 2 of us we should be able to get you something in the mail that will be up and running as soon as you add water.
Anybody that wants a starter, PM me with your address and I'll get in the mail to you.
Post by: Bentley on November 08, 2021, 02:12:30 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 08, 2021, 03:29:31 PM
I wish I had understood the recipe. I also think that King Arthur could be a little less ambiguous. I also looked at a couple of videos that took days to make the starter. No issue with that, just wish I had know it. I think I will buy a little whole wheat flour tonight and start on the process. I understand the concept of wild yeast in the air, i do not understand how it gets into the starter as every video I looked at had a top on the starter, so I have no idea how it is getting in. So we will take a rest from baking and work on a starter!
I've seen quite a lot of information that points to the yeast getting started from the flour rather than what is in the air. I'm sure the air also contributes but the flour has what it needs either way. I keep a loose lid on mine but don't close it all the way. Once you get it going that could be an explosion. You can also use cheesecloth on top.
Give it a full two weeks at least before becoming discouraged. All mine have been nearly 2 weeks on the nose before becoming reliable.
Also, you don't need to use whole wheat flour. Mine is just King Arthur bread flour.
Post by: Bentley on November 08, 2021, 04:30:24 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 08, 2021, 06:08:26 PM
It appears it will be a 2 week process. I just wanted to have some whole wheat in the loaf.
You will use a small amount of starter per loaf. You can add whatever flour you would like to the actual dough. A whole wheat starter will add very little whole wheat flour to the final product. That being said a whole wheat starter will work great.
Post by: Bentley on November 10, 2021, 02:47:43 PM
For some of you this is info you have known for years, for those like me, maybe interesting. Just so you have an idea of this starter, start off with 50g of water and flour. Today I added another 50g of both water and flour. Tomorrow I will have 200g of starter I will add 100g of both water and flour. Day 4 is where it gets interesting for me and I have questions for you guys that are old hat at this starter stuff.
So it appears when I get to day 4 I will have 400g of starter and I will start "discarding" starter (the King Arthur recipe is making more sense now). I will take 150g of starter and add 150 g of water and flour and discard the rest of the starter. 1st question, will there be anyway to tell if the discard at day 4 would be viable to use in a loaf, or am I best this early in the process to put it down the drain for the microbes in the septic? 2nd question, do you all average in that 150g range on what you use as feed?
He goes on to do the 150g of starter, water and flour, for the next 3 days. He says it can be used by day 8, but you probably need to go another 7 days before you have a strong starter.
A couple of final questions, in say an 800g dough loaf, about how many grams of starter will you use? The answer to this next question will have significance on the previous questions I guess. How often do you all feed your starter if you are only baking say a couple of loafs a week?
Have not seen much activity in 1st 24 hours, but I am going to attribute that to room temperature, will see if we have some bubbles tomorrow after 24 hours at 70°.
(https://i.imgur.com/I6xjVf7h.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 10, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
1st question, will there be anyway to tell if the discard at day 4 would be viable to use in a loaf, or am I best this early in the process to put it down the drain for the microbes in the septic?
2nd question, do you all average in that 150g range on what you use as feed?
1st answer: For "most breads" they call for "fed starter" which means you have fed it within the last 12 hours.
Ideally you want the starter just near the peak of it's rising before it starts falling.
Doesn't mean you can't use it if it isn't, just results may not be as good.
2nd answer: I use less, 40-50 grams. Once it starts getting active, you start increasing the amount so you can get to the amount the recipe calls for.
For discards, we make sourdough pancakes and sourdough crackers (KA recipe, we like them with Rosemary in them).
Post by: Bentley on November 10, 2021, 03:32:23 PM
2nd answer: I use less, 40-50 grams. Once it starts getting active, you start increasing the amount so you can get to the amount the recipe calls for.
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 10, 2021, 04:21:02 PM
That is like this recipe in the beginning. It was 50g of each the 1st 2 days. In the video, his is very active in the 1st 24 hours, no so much in day 2,3 & 4, then in day 5 very active. But by that time he on day5 he is up to the 150g of starter. This person is the 1st to say that ambient temperatures will effect it and that don't be worried if it basically stalls!
It does take longer with the colder temp.
I have a proofer I use to keep temp in the 70's.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 10, 2021, 09:13:40 PM
Honestly, it doesn't matter nearly as much to get it going as most people make it out to be. Just feed it twice a day with a 50/50 flour water mix and you will eventually have a solid starter.
I wouldn't use it after day 4. I almost guarantee that you will be disappointed. I wouldn't use it until it consistently doubles in size. It's not going to raise bread until that happens. If it won't raise itself, it won't raise a loaf.
Post by: bregent on November 11, 2021, 12:55:28 AM
Post by: Bentley on November 11, 2021, 09:58:00 AM
Post by: Bentley on November 11, 2021, 05:16:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RYgPHvih.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CHsedkAh.jpg)
Day 3, now moving to 1qt jar, 200g starter, 100g water and flour. Once again, I am getting a big head, and I have done nothing!
(https://i.imgur.com/F6eLBuOh.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 11, 2021, 05:47:03 PM
You might not want to put that top for the jar on tight though.
The cheesecloth should be sufficient.
Post by: BigDave83 on November 11, 2021, 05:58:11 PM
I am assuming it became very active last night in the oven with the light on. Keeps it right around 70°.
(https://i.imgur.com/RYgPHvih.jpg)
Day 3, now moving to 1qt jar, 200g starter, 100g water and flour. Once again, I am getting a big head, and I have done nothing!
It's Alive!!
I have never done one, but from what I have seen and read it looks like you are on the right path now.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 11, 2021, 06:17:43 PM
I have had some that got a bit active at the beginning (not as much as yours though) then die back down for awhile.
Post by: Bentley on November 11, 2021, 07:11:09 PM
The cheesecloth should be sufficient.
Post by: Bentley on November 11, 2021, 07:27:33 PM
I've never had one do that after 3 days. If it doubles again with the next feeding or two I guess I would give it a try for some bread.
Post by: Bentley on November 11, 2021, 07:35:01 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 11, 2021, 08:14:35 PM
Am I correct in assuming that the less handling and kneading before baking will make for the slices with the huge holes in them? That is really not what I am looking for as I get angry when the butter or Russian dressing falls through. :pig:
The big holes are a due to hydration and shaping. I wouldn't say knead time has as much to do with it.
Post by: Bentley on November 11, 2021, 09:20:29 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 12, 2021, 05:57:20 AM
Is there a way to avoid them?
What is the recipe that you plan on using? I think most of the huge hole bread is very high hydration. If you stay in the 70% range I think you will be fine. There are also a ton of shaping videos on YouTube. Try searching for sourdough stitching or something like that. It is a shaping technique.
Post by: Bentley on November 12, 2021, 10:26:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/28Kvxvyh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pNsbvm1h.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on November 12, 2021, 10:28:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/RYgPHvih.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/28Kvxvyh.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 12, 2021, 12:56:21 PM
So here is my starter tale...
The dried starter I took out of the freezer was the first starter I have ever had. Bought it from KA.
Looked on the bottom of the jar and it had a date of 3/26/12. It's been in my freezer for over 9.5 years!!!
So wasn't sure what the outcome would be.
All the pics below were taken in the morning before being fed.
Starter was fed morning and night with a 1:1:1 ratio of starter:flour:water.
Day 1: 2 pics - Starter with 20g of each.
Day 2: Just a couple tiny bubbles.
Day 3: Some bubbles in morning, and rose about 50% by night feeding time. Put the mark on the jar.
Day 4: EUREKA!!! More than doubled overnight.
I was amazed how healthy this starter got in 4 days for being 9.5 years in freezer.
Well feed it a few more days before splitting it out for bread, pancakes, and crackers.
Probably Monday will be bread making day. Plan to make 4 loaves.
One thing I noticed, it had a different aroma than the starter I have been using.
Don't know it that is due to the age or if it smelled like that 9.5 years ago when I first used it. Maybe why I didn't use it after that. :o
Guess I will see if that affects the products any.
Post by: Bentley on November 12, 2021, 01:33:02 PM
Post by: Bentley on November 12, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
I see that Vital Wheat Gluten flour is 75% protein. I know there are some good math folks on this site. If I have a recipe that calls for 375 grams of flour that has a 12.7% protein content, how many grams of Vital Wheat Gluten flour do I have to add to get to 14%.
I would get a problem like this in math class and just accept the Zero! :pig:
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 12, 2021, 03:00:42 PM
https://foodgeek.dk/en/vital-wheat-gluten-calculator/
That's a pretty handy tool.
I plugged in the numbers:
Post by: Bentley on November 12, 2021, 04:28:32 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 12, 2021, 04:54:15 PM
Post by: Bentley on November 12, 2021, 06:32:48 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 12, 2021, 06:57:34 PM
It just drags and pulls the dough if you do it slow.
Post by: Bentley on November 12, 2021, 07:18:40 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Luc2P8oh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nk5BQjEh.jpg)
Supposed to look like this. We are not there yet, but I am encouraged!
(https://i.imgur.com/OaUsmqy.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 13, 2021, 05:46:56 AM
Do you have an electric oven? Did you cook directly on a stone, or in a dutch oven? Did you spray water on it or use steam at all?
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 13, 2021, 10:57:48 AM
We will be making sourdough pancakes tomorrow as well.
Post by: Bentley on November 13, 2021, 01:41:09 PM
Do you have an electric oven? Did you cook directly on a stone, or in a dutch oven? Did you spray water on it or use steam at all?
(https://i.imgur.com/PwBPPPuh.jpg)
The starter discard made into an overnight sponge. Will mix rest of ingredients in tomorrow!
We will be making sourdough pancakes tomorrow as well.
(https://i.imgur.com/HssMMqIh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on November 13, 2021, 01:43:30 PM
Should your started lean to the runnier side?
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 13, 2021, 04:02:17 PM
Most of mine don't do much leading up to takeoff. Several days of just more of the same. About day 11 or 12 you start to get a feeling it's about to blow.
Post by: Bentley on November 15, 2021, 02:48:53 PM
One more week, then I will try a loaf. Am I correct in assuming I would want to feed the starter the night before, then use it in the morning, or when it is the most active?
(https://i.imgur.com/glUf0HQh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sV7evCKh.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 15, 2021, 07:57:50 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 16, 2021, 11:30:33 AM
Yes. Typically 6 to 12 hours after feeding. It still works fine if it's not at its peak, it just takes longer to rise. If you like an actual sour flavor, you would be better off using it after it starts it's fall after peaking.
I add Sour Salt (Citric Acid) to the recipe to get the extra sour taste.
Post by: Bentley on November 16, 2021, 05:25:34 PM
Post by: Bentley on November 16, 2021, 05:28:05 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 16, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
Others have made them - Google "sourdough hoagie roll recipe"
EDIT: here are some sourdough buns just posted today on the PM forum.
Wasn't Norm (norcoscia) on the PH forum ? He is the one that posted these.
Post by: Bentley on November 16, 2021, 10:14:46 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 17, 2021, 12:20:25 PM
So will sourdough start work well to make sandwich rolls? Think Hoagie or Amoroso type.
Sourdough starter works in any product that you would like to make. It's just replacing the commerical yeast with starter to create the same product. The formula will change, but the end result shouldn't.
If you use a young starter (fed say 4 to 6 hours ago) it will most likely taste nearly identical to commercial yeasts. The more mature starter you use along with extended rise times will develop that additional flavor that some people desire.
Post by: Bentley on November 17, 2021, 06:41:52 PM
So I am coming to the end of the 14 days of getting the starter active. What now?
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 17, 2021, 07:00:01 PM
I am getting ready to put loaf #2 in the oven and will also have a sourdough pizza crust for tonight. Will post pictures later in each thread.
So I am coming to the end of the 14 days of getting the starter active. What now?
I just use 50g discard, add 100g water and 100g flour once daily and bake away.
Post by: Bentley on November 17, 2021, 09:08:36 PM
I think I am way to low on the loaf with the cut for the 2nd time, but I still do not think the dough is at a stage when it is as firm as I see in the youtube stuff. Will now really wait till say 14 before I try again! I guess getting a little closer, but noting like the youtube video that I am going off. This is supposed to be a no knead.
Any reason for the cracks in the top?
(https://i.imgur.com/gbNGPhTh.jpg)
Post by: BigDave83 on November 18, 2021, 08:30:40 AM
This is a great lesson you are giving, I like that you, much like myself, are impatient and want to try to get this made.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 18, 2021, 09:51:03 AM
So say you want to bake a loaf on Friday. I would take the starter from the fridge on Wednesday. Feed it once on Wednesday and once on Thursday and you should be good to go for Friday.
As far as the cracks, are you using a convection oven with the fan on? If so, try it with the fan off. The fan forms crust on the bread prematurely and then it blows out. You could also try cutting a little deeper with the lame and also a bit higher as you and Dave both mentioned.
Post by: Bentley on November 18, 2021, 12:29:59 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 22, 2021, 02:30:45 PM
Sourdough blueberry pancakes with made with Starter discard.
Will probably make the bread and crackers the Monday after Thanksgiving.
Haha, I was hungry and started eating before I thought to take a picture.
Post by: bregent on November 22, 2021, 11:41:37 PM
>getting the starter active. What now?
I would highly recommend the starter maintenance technique that I use. After 25+ years of sourdough baking, I have found nothing that is easier or more reliable. I've been using this method now for about 3 years now and it works great 100% of the time. It requires NO FEEDING or DISCARDING, and is ready to go whenever you need it. The starter is stored in the fridge, and from a 100 gram starter I can make about 12 large 1000 gram loaves. The starter will last about 4 months in the fridge with absolutely no feeding.
The basic gist is that you make a stiff starter from whatever seed you have. The timing of the build is important, but not difficult and takes only about 10 hours. Once that stiff starter is created, store it in the fridge. When you want to bake, take about 6 grams of it and build a levain the night before you are baking. 10-12 hours later you are ready to make dough with it.
Here's a picture of the starter I have on hand - I keep it in a small jelly jar:
I'll post more details tomorrow - gotta go do some holiday meal shopping now.
Post by: Bentley on November 25, 2021, 10:27:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/83ZfkVCh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/drOd3Yuh.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 26, 2021, 11:23:15 AM
I see crumbs, so looks like a nice crispy crust.
00 flour requires high heat to brown. Typically used for Neapolitan pizza which bakes at 850-950f.
Adding sugar or Diastatic Malt Powder will help with browning.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on November 26, 2021, 11:32:49 AM
I made 36 dinner rolls, and 12 sandwich rolls for Thanksgiving. They were proofing a bit slower than anticipated and ended up slightly dense from a bit of underproofing. They were still good, but not my best work.
Post by: Bentley on November 26, 2021, 01:16:58 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 30, 2021, 07:33:19 PM
Made some sourdough crackers as well.
At start the two loaves on left were on top rack, one on right on the bottom.
At 10 minutes, swapped shelves and rotated, and placed temp probe in one on the bottom.
At the 20 minute mark, noticed single loaf on top[ was much browner. Put a probe in it and it was at 198f.
Removed it from oven. The two on the bottom took another 7 minutes to finish, but not as brown as the single one.
I guess I will need to swap and rotate every 5 minutes or so to get color even on all loaves.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 01, 2021, 04:57:55 PM
Post by: Darwin on December 01, 2021, 05:40:14 PM
Home made spicy Cheese-Its :cool:
Nice loaves guys!
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on December 01, 2021, 09:16:41 PM
Post by: Darwin on December 01, 2021, 09:40:04 PM
I was always a Cheese Nips versus Cheez-Itz guy. I can't even find Nips in stores anymore. I wonder if they discontinued them.I forgot about them. Google found this.
“As of 2020, Cheese Nips have since been discontinued by Nabisco. They are still sold in Canada by Christie's as Ritz Cheese Nibs as of 2021.“
Post by: Bentley on December 03, 2021, 05:33:50 PM
How to shape a high hydration sourdough bread without sticking your hands - Coil folding Technique (https://youtu.be/ryO2QPdFORM)
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 03, 2021, 05:47:57 PM
I try to stay no higher than 60-62% hydration.
At 80%, I'm not sure why his hands aren't a sticky mess.
Post by: BigDave83 on December 03, 2021, 06:00:06 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 03, 2021, 06:12:40 PM
Post by: bregent on December 03, 2021, 06:44:16 PM
Post by: Bentley on December 03, 2021, 08:27:39 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 04, 2021, 10:47:32 AM
I love bagels and should make them more, but it's hard to do that when there is an Einstein Bagels less than a 1/4 mile from our house. ::)
Post by: bregent on December 04, 2021, 07:06:36 PM
Post by: Darwin on December 05, 2021, 10:59:58 AM
Post by: hughver on December 06, 2021, 01:30:25 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 06, 2021, 01:40:28 PM
Are the slightly green spots nuts ? Pistachios maybe ?
Post by: hughver on December 06, 2021, 02:07:49 PM
Looks great!
Are the slightly green spots nuts ? Pistachios maybe ?
No, pecans. not sure why they appear green.
Post by: Bentley on December 07, 2021, 04:55:45 PM
I should have taken a few more photos of the process. It is supposed to be about a 20x12 rectangle, as you can see it is not. You then cut it into thirds, lay them one on top of another, cut into smaller section again. You put pan vertical and then lay the slices in the pan.
(https://i.imgur.com/W9LQRL3h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iJvomrHh.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 07, 2021, 06:03:26 PM
I'll have to see if I can find a recipe I saved somewhere. You take a par baked sourdough round loaf. Cut through part way in a crisscross pattern, drop in tons of butter, garlic, and cheese between the cuts. Then grill it the rest of the way to finish the bread and melt all the stuff. It looked terrific.
Post by: BigDave83 on December 07, 2021, 06:21:54 PM
Did it turn out as you hoped?
Post by: Bentley on December 07, 2021, 06:25:10 PM
Post by: Bentley on December 07, 2021, 09:16:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aLMdfATh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Hjndt4Uh.jpg)
Post by: Darwin on December 07, 2021, 09:45:30 PM
Post by: hughver on December 08, 2021, 12:03:25 PM
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on December 08, 2021, 12:26:33 PM
Post by: Bentley on December 08, 2021, 01:02:20 PM
Amazing Pull Apart Garlic Bread Layered with Garlic Butter & Cheese (https://youtu.be/zMWk5B2Z528)
That's my kind of bread! I'll have to try it. Is "milk and bread yeast" dough have a further definition?
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 10, 2021, 06:50:47 PM
Post by: Bentley on December 10, 2021, 07:37:11 PM
Post by: Bentley on December 11, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/380i5h8h.jpg?1)
Post by: Bentley on December 11, 2021, 01:37:14 PM
There is a reason they are Artisans! I have to find out if you can bake an 80% hydrated dough, what it would be used for or if I need to add some more flour and see about using it that way!
High Hydration Dough (https://youtu.be/82Xhz_tPDJ4)
Post by: BigDave83 on December 11, 2021, 06:21:00 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 11, 2021, 07:29:42 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 12, 2021, 07:38:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nlHsfMnl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YAn7stVl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3S7RCOpl.jpg)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 13, 2021, 05:12:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rydjdwEl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ig3ImxZl.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 13, 2021, 05:21:56 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 13, 2021, 07:08:28 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 14, 2021, 12:31:20 PM
https://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm
Post by: Bentley on December 17, 2021, 03:59:32 PM
Ok, enough about me, they do not seem to like white bread, so I made some sourdough wheat!
(https://i.imgur.com/InWUkZ6h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y3Lk3Fth.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 17, 2021, 04:03:50 PM
Losing weight can be depressing when you think you lost some weight, and find out you gained some.
Post by: BigDave83 on December 17, 2021, 04:35:01 PM
Bread looks pretty good!
Losing weight can be depressing when you think you lost some weight, and find out you gained some.
Just tell yourself you gained muscle mass since it is heavier than fat.
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 18, 2021, 03:11:05 PM
Should have read it a little closer.
Uses scalded milk, says to "cool" after.
I spaced out and missed that, so in doing so I may have committed genocide with the yeast.
Rose very little.
Tastes OK, but not the result I was expecting.
I do like the bread I have made from the KA Seeded Rye recipe better, though.
Going to make some of that today (or maybe tomorrow).
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on December 18, 2021, 06:11:20 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 18, 2021, 07:10:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/4ory7kbl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/l0jcUMbl.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on December 18, 2021, 08:19:40 PM
Post by: Bentley on December 19, 2021, 10:37:12 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 19, 2021, 10:45:12 AM
You can always turn them into sandwiches (Hoagie, Grinder, Sub, etc.)
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 19, 2021, 10:47:20 AM
Much better results than the other recipe. Nice an soft, and rose nicely over top of pan.
Making 2 more loaves today.
I see Ham and Swiss Cheese on Rye in my near future.
Post by: Bentley on December 22, 2021, 12:45:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LflzdNOh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on December 22, 2021, 01:08:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZgVNpggh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on December 22, 2021, 01:41:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8qlQYveh.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on December 22, 2021, 01:50:10 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on December 22, 2021, 06:51:35 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 01, 2022, 06:42:23 PM
Brushed with butter, then sprinkled Parmesan Cheese on top.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 01, 2022, 06:54:55 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 01, 2022, 07:06:38 PM
Turned/swapped trays at 5 minutes.
At 10 minutes they were still all white.
Set timer for three minutes (I thought), but had an extra zero in it (30:00).
I was wondering why the alarm hadn't gone off, went to check. and that is what they looked like.
I need to discipline myself to stay right there and turn/swap trays every 3-4 minutes.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 01, 2022, 07:15:24 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 03, 2022, 06:46:21 PM
The first are bread-like and these are more cracker-like, and are crunchier.
On the left have pretzel salt on them. and on the right have sesame seeds on them.
If you haven't figured out by now, I suck at shaping them. ::)
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 04, 2022, 05:07:03 PM
The stick breads like baguettes are the trickiest to shape for me as well. I'm getting better at it each time, but it's definitely still a weak point in my bread game.
I'm still trying to dial in the right temp settings on my new oven. These were probably the best color wise to come out of it yet. The stones get significantly hotter than the oven set temp so I've had to adjust down quite a bit from my normal cook temp in a traditional oven.
(https://i.imgur.com/8tPaECol.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 04, 2022, 05:54:38 PM
I'll be making baguettes in a couple of weeks.
Will be my turn to host poker night, so thought I'd server subs with homemade baguettes.
Only made them a couple times, and they turned out great.
Hopefully I will be able repeat that.
Making some more bread sticks right now. Third recipe.
I think everybody must be snoozing. Yours is the first post today.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 04, 2022, 07:45:17 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 04, 2022, 08:03:03 PM
Got one player who's a purist though, only deals 5 card stud. I find it boring Haha
So here are the third batch of bread sticks, from third recipe.
I like these the best, nice and soft.
The 2nd batch, the crunchy ones were good too.
They have butter with Italian seasoning spread on top.
Post by: Bentley on January 19, 2022, 08:16:09 PM
Off to make a tuna fish sandwich!
(https://i.imgur.com/VTOx76Zh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dSecV0Gh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QQU0zvuh.jpg)
Post by: BigDave83 on January 19, 2022, 08:44:44 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 19, 2022, 08:58:51 PM
Do you have rice flour? It works wonders for sticking issues and you wouldn't have to have so much on the exterior as I assume that excess is to avoid sticking issues.
Post by: Bentley on January 19, 2022, 10:07:18 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 20, 2022, 11:54:34 AM
Maybe a little less flour on the outside ?
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 20, 2022, 12:02:56 PM
Glad I did the practice run, as these turned out ugly.
Recipe called for 68% hydration, so a wet dough.
Everything was great until I went to slash them.
Could not get the Lame to go through the dough no matter what I did. The dough just stuck to it.
In the process, it deflated the dough in places.
For Saturday, I am going to add some more flour and do more of the stretch and folds (this was recommended by a PM forum member).
So, hoping Saturdays will look better.
These were delicious, so glad about that.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 20, 2022, 01:01:25 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 20, 2022, 01:16:54 PM
I've found if you spray the lame with Pam it helps sometimes.I tried vegetable oil. It just came right off as soon as lame was in the dough.
I think all the breads I've made have been about 60% hydration, and had good results with the lame.
We'll see what happens Saturday with additional flour.
Also, I have noticed that I have had to add flour to most bread recipes since I started using KA Sir Galahad AP flour.
Maybe it doesn't absorb as much as previous flour (GM All Trumps I think).
Haven't checked the specs for absorption rate. Guess I should.
Post by: Bentley on January 20, 2022, 02:54:06 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 20, 2022, 03:01:13 PM
Recipe said 1 hr for the first three and 1.5 hrs for the one in the pan.
Finding I need longer to get any kind of rise in cold weather.
Post by: Bentley on January 23, 2022, 01:21:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/C7wT7USh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on January 23, 2022, 01:29:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qzjPLIsh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NJhK9jdh.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on January 23, 2022, 01:32:20 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on January 23, 2022, 02:02:41 PM
My first question/suggestion is how do you slice with the lame? My guess from the look is that you are holding it almost completely perpendicular to the top of the loaf and slicing straight down the middle. If so, try holding the blade more parallel with the loaf and slice on a curve instead of a straight line.
(https://i.imgur.com/AwuaOCal.jpeg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 23, 2022, 02:23:19 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 23, 2022, 02:42:02 PM
I guess I am much more a Rye with caraway seed guy then just Rye flour. This loaf just tastes like whole wheat bread. So, my next quest is to get caraway seeds. I think I will even grind up some and add that along to the flour with the whole seed. I think I may also be looking for a touch of ground coriander too! Really disappointed in the flavor, but to be expected when the essential ingredients are left out!
Post by: BigDave83 on January 23, 2022, 04:50:38 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 23, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 26, 2022, 12:11:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/2dnUsX2h.jpg)
Post by: Bentley on January 26, 2022, 03:01:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/H5oQBaBh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RrVX0Syh.jpg)
Post by: BigDave83 on January 27, 2022, 07:11:20 PM
I found a recipe in one of Woman's old tablets that was hand written out.
3 1/2 C flour (I used AP)
1 t salt
1 1/3 C warm water
2 t sugar
2 t yeast (I used regular active dry)
1 egg (I only buy Jumbo eggs)
I Bloomed yeast in water with sugar added egg and then mixed it with the flour and salt turned out on table and kneaded until I got it to smooth out. Left raise for 2 hours, divided up and then left in a warm oven for an hour. Baked 375 for about 20 minutes. Internal temps were in the 204 area.
Not sure why it turned out the way it did. The rolls were 70 to 75 grams each. Regular Wonder bread rolls are 53 grams by the package. I thought these would be larger, but they were about 3" diameter.
Advice on what I may have not done correctly. I did mix this by hand because I was to lazy to dig out the KA stand mixer.
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 28, 2022, 11:21:20 AM
Surprised they weren't browner with an IT of 204.
Maybe need to bake at a higher temp ? ? ?
Post by: Bentley on January 28, 2022, 11:40:15 AM
Post by: BigDave83 on January 28, 2022, 01:30:11 PM
The rolls did surprise me in that they were not bigger. They were smaller diameter than a normal roll/bun, but weight wise were close 1.5 times what they list.
The bread we cut later on it isn't pretty but tasted good was kind of chewy which I like.
Weather is to be kind of xxxxxx here tomorrow, so maybe I will try again. The GF wants banana bread made. So most everything will be out and dirty anyways.
Post by: BigDave83 on January 29, 2022, 08:55:56 PM
Found a different recipe in Woman's old recipe tablet. No eggs in this one, but it did want lard, I thought I had some but ended up not and used crisco. I will pick up a tub of lard next time I am out at the Amish store.
This was good, little chewy, definitely not Bentleys wonder bread. Broke out the stand mixer today and left it do the heavy work. About 10 minutes on speed 2. Used 1/4 steam pans that were 4" high, little over an hour in the oven with the pilot light heat for first rise, then once in the pan back in for about 40 minutes. Baked this at 425° for 30 minutes internal was 201° I liked this better than my last attempt.
Had 3 brown bananas so made up some small loaves of bread from them also.
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 30, 2022, 10:50:15 AM
I made some dough balls and put them in the fridge Friday. Will be making Hoagie rolls with them tomorrow.
Hope I can shape them better that the Baguettes I made.
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 31, 2022, 02:47:41 PM
Came out pretty good.
Slashing, no so much.
Post by: BigDave83 on January 31, 2022, 03:29:25 PM
Post by: Bentley on January 31, 2022, 03:53:41 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 31, 2022, 03:58:08 PM
Those are nice rolls, look like they could also make some nice garlic bread.
Your house maybe, but not in mine! Can't stand garlic. Tastes and smells bad. :puke:
I've turned around and walked out of Italian restaurants when garlic hits you in the face as soon as you enter.
=====================================================================================
They look like they would hold a Cheese Steak very well!
Yup, Cheese Steak, Hoagie/Sub, French Dip, etc. Lots of varieties of sandwiches.
Post by: Bentley on February 01, 2022, 05:03:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dcKBkArh.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 01, 2022, 05:40:42 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on February 01, 2022, 08:12:29 PM
I would like to try to make something like that. Looks like it would go good with some beef stew.
Post by: Bentley on February 01, 2022, 09:48:33 PM
Looks like you had the slashing figured out on that loaf. Nice!
Banneton to peel to stone, no pot or pan.
That looks good, did you bake in a pot or just on a sheet pan?
(https://i.imgur.com/OaUsmqy.jpg)
Post by: bregent on February 01, 2022, 10:30:01 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on February 02, 2022, 06:57:47 AM
Banneton to peel to stone, no pot or pan.
That looks good, did you bake in a pot or just on a sheet pan?
(https://i.imgur.com/OaUsmqy.jpg)
[/quote]
Now I need to buy more stuff, a Banneton, a lame, and make starter, I have a stone.
My problem is I don't eat that much bread anymore. But who knows maybe I will give it a shot some time. I had seen where people make starter and dry it out then just rehydrate and feed it when they are planning on making bread, that would probably be the way I would have to do it, as opposed to feeding it every day or so.
I have learned that when most people say easy, it is easy to them, they have enough practice under their belt that it actually is easy to them.
Post by: BigDave83 on February 02, 2022, 07:03:19 AM
Banh Mi Rolls. Occasionally use these for Banh Mi, but usually for cheese steaks or sausage and peppers. Tonight, it's for boudin style sausages. They are super light and airy, so you get filling, instead of a big mouthful of bread in every bite.
Those look very good, would you share your recipe for that?
Growing up Woman made some of the softest and smooth bread I had ever seen, no idea how she did it. But I would like to find a soft bread recipe. Everything I make is kind of hard on the outside and chewy inside.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 02, 2022, 10:19:41 AM
lots of rise, but no fermentation I guess, the gas bubbles are just not present!Maybe you are proofing too long and the yeast is running out of food.
I believe the flour in Britain must be a higher protein content. He makes it appear that his is almost 14%. The best I can do is about 12%. I have tried to supplement and raise the content with Vital Wheat Gluten and I do not believe that is working.
14% is where the Caputo 00 pizza flour is. It needs high temps to bake and brown.
12% is fine for bread flour.
======================================================================================================
I had seen where people make starter and dry it out then just rehydrate and feed it when they are planning on making bread, that would probably be the way I would have to do it, as opposed to feeding it every day or so.
That is what I do, I have a bunch in the freezer.
Just put a piece of parchment paper on a baking sheet, spread the starter on it thin, put in oven with the light on until it drys.
Then grind it up ( I use a coffee grinder), and put in freezer.
If you use it often enough you can put in a jar.
I don't, so I vacuum seal it in small 10 or 20g packets.
===========================================================================
Rolls look great Bob! :clap:
Post by: bregent on February 02, 2022, 11:33:14 AM
I had seen where people make starter and dry it out then just rehydrate and feed it when they are planning on making bread, that would probably be the way I would have to do it, as opposed to feeding it every day or so.
You don't need to feed a starter every day, or even every week. I have posted about this many times, but I keep my starter in the fridge for up to 4 months with NO feeding. When I want to bake I take out a small amount, make a levain the night before with some flour and water, and 10-12 hours later it's ready to go. Let me know if you want more info and I'll find one of the threads where I posted the details.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 02, 2022, 11:49:12 AM
I keep my starter in the fridge for up to 4 months with NO feeding.I don't know how it can last that long without mold growing in the jar.
I ran into that problem when I just left one jar in there and fed it weekly, which is why I switched to drying it.
It really doesn't take any longer to get it up to baking potential.
Post by: bregent on February 02, 2022, 11:49:35 AM
Banh Mi Rolls. Occasionally use these for Banh Mi, but usually for cheese steaks or sausage and peppers. Tonight, it's for boudin style sausages. They are super light and airy, so you get filling, instead of a big mouthful of bread in every bite.
Those look very good, would you share your recipe for that?
Growing up Woman made some of the softest and smooth bread I had ever seen, no idea how she did it. But I would like to find a soft bread recipe. Everything I make is kind of hard on the outside and chewy inside.
Well, the outside of these are crispy but thin. I've gone through several different recipes for these rolls but the one I've settled on is from a YouTube video and is the best and the fastest I've found.
Not sure how Bentley feels about posting links to YT videos, so just search for Banh Mi Recipe from Aimee's Cooking.
Post by: Bentley on February 02, 2022, 12:18:15 PM
Post by: bregent on February 02, 2022, 12:41:01 PM
I keep my starter in the fridge for up to 4 months with NO feeding.I don't know how it can last that long without mold growing in the jar.
I ran into that problem when I just left one jar in there and fed it weekly, which is why I switched to drying it.
It really doesn't take any longer to get it up to baking potential.
With a thick starter (66% hydration) you won't get any mold in the fridge. Dried starters have always taken me at least 2 days to get fully active. With the method I'm using now it reaches peak activity within 12 hours so I find it requires less planning ahead. But drying is a great option if it works for you.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 02, 2022, 01:13:18 PM
I keep my starter in the fridge for up to 4 months with NO feeding.I don't know how it can last that long without mold growing in the jar.
I ran into that problem when I just left one jar in there and fed it weekly, which is why I switched to drying it.
It really doesn't take any longer to get it up to baking potential.
With a thick starter (66% hydration) you won't get any mold in the fridge. Dried starters have always taken me at least 2 days to get fully active. With the method I'm using now it reaches peak activity within 12 hours so I find it requires less planning ahead. But drying is a great option if it works for you.
So that's the trick... Have always use 100% hydration.
Do you bump it up to 100% when you go to use it ?
I think most recipes assume that.
Post by: Bentley on February 02, 2022, 03:55:15 PM
Post by: bregent on February 03, 2022, 11:18:52 PM
So that's the trick... Have always use 100% hydration.
Do you bump it up to 100% when you go to use it ?
I think most recipes assume that.
Correct, the starter that I store in the fridge is 66%. When it's time to bake I remove a small amount (about 10gr for a 500 gr loaf) and make a starter with 50 grams flour and 50 grams water.
Post by: Bentley on February 28, 2022, 03:27:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ffF8AXzh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qN9nSmxh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Z4TfBtVh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Brj2IDih.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BK4qm2hh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KW8V5g1h.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on February 28, 2022, 03:41:04 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 28, 2022, 03:59:07 PM
What kind of flours did you put in it ?
Post by: Bentley on February 28, 2022, 05:00:12 PM
Post by: yorkdude on February 28, 2022, 06:05:29 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on February 28, 2022, 06:23:28 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on February 28, 2022, 07:16:22 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on March 03, 2022, 05:35:19 PM
The video that went with it came out much nicer than mine did, it looks soft on the video but mine is anything but. Very hard exterior the inside is not to bad. Had 3 tablespoons of sugar in the recipe. It does have a sweeter taste to it. I have it in a bag trying to get the outside softened a bit.
2.5 C flour
3 T sugar
1 T baking soda
1 t salt
1 C milk
0.25 C olive or canola oil. I used olive.
Mix well rest for 15 minutes. The video had rolls instead of loaves.
Form and bake at 350 I went 35 minutes internal was 201
Recipe was on Youtube Channel Savor Easy.
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 03, 2022, 06:05:00 PM
Three tablespoons of sugar does seem like a lot though.
Did you brush Garlic butter on surface ? Before or after baking ?
Post by: BigDave83 on March 03, 2022, 08:54:38 PM
Looks like a simple/easy to make a loaf or rolls.
Three tablespoons of sugar does seem like a lot though.
Did you brush Garlic butter on surface ? Before or after baking ?
I split them and made my spread then wrapped in foil and put in the oven.
The other liked it, it was okay, but not what I was expecting. It did remind me of beer bread when I was in that phase. It was crumbly and with the butter spread it kind of fell apart a little more. I probably messed it up when I made it. I may try again with less sugar.
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 04, 2022, 03:19:30 PM
I found it informative.
Post by: Bentley on March 05, 2022, 10:46:32 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 05, 2022, 11:03:06 AM
Post by: BigDave83 on March 05, 2022, 09:48:31 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 06, 2022, 12:29:14 PM
When looking at baguettes I always though they were scored on a 45 degree angle.
Little did I know that happens during the bake.
Post by: Bentley on March 06, 2022, 05:45:46 PM
Introduction to tangzhong (https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2018/03/26/introduction-to-tangzhong)
Post by: Darwin on March 06, 2022, 06:51:42 PM
Post by: Bentley on March 08, 2022, 02:10:22 PM
I haven’t test but I think it extends shelf life as well as texture.
Post by: Bentley on March 08, 2022, 05:16:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DnsUcSsh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KKE1dPFh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BuctGuGh.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 11, 2022, 07:09:46 PM
Post by: Bentley on March 11, 2022, 09:39:02 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 12, 2022, 12:14:42 PM
-dedicated flour freezer- done
-proofing fridge- ready
-Oven on stand-done
-Dedicated table for mixer, slicer, grinder, etc-getting there
-old kitchen cabs/dishwasher hooked up-waiting for plumber
-replace curtains with wood dividers-in progress
-butcher block island for bread and pizza prep- ordered
(https://i.imgur.com/ybpFAl0l.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fuONuR5l.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zdmmS05l.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zFPrmW4l.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7lL1OMul.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y5DNSAgl.jpeg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 12, 2022, 12:34:29 PM
I have all my other ingredients and flour all packed in one freezer. Would love to have another one, but wife would kill me.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 12, 2022, 01:56:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JYBynLwl.jpeg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 12, 2022, 02:14:15 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on March 12, 2022, 02:17:06 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 12, 2022, 02:44:47 PM
When we left our last house, buyers wanted our fridge. I said OK I didn't like it anyway, planning on buying a new one for this house.
Well, Seller of this place left the fridge. Hahaha
Worked of over a year, then died and bought the new one then.
Post by: BigDave83 on March 12, 2022, 04:22:29 PM
Post by: Bentley on March 12, 2022, 04:36:11 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 12, 2022, 04:44:17 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 13, 2022, 08:56:44 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 13, 2022, 08:57:50 AM
Beautiful work area. Probably room to put a curing chamber in to make your own salamis, and prosciutto and other dry aged/cured things.
I've always wanted to do something like that. I know they make temp and humidity controlled countertop cabinets that would be great for that. Good idea.
Post by: Bentley on March 13, 2022, 04:22:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iWdciY4h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Wfy3xGyh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XJrivdGh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HIfOJxTh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V5D4F2Yh.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 13, 2022, 04:53:59 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 13, 2022, 04:58:04 PM
Looks like they came out great though.
I have a bun pan that is only about 3/4" deep.
Can't recall if I've ever used it yet. Haha
Post by: Bentley on March 13, 2022, 05:05:20 PM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 13, 2022, 07:25:04 PM
Post by: Bentley on March 13, 2022, 08:24:47 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on March 14, 2022, 07:28:53 AM
Post by: Bentley on March 14, 2022, 11:36:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8RQRSkfh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EakX1cfh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/17brvy5h.jpg)
Post by: BigDave83 on March 15, 2022, 07:12:20 AM
Post by: Bentley on March 15, 2022, 09:56:11 AM
I cant find dark rye in Mayberry! I guess the molasses would make it look pumpernickel enough, but to me the flavor would be different!
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 15, 2022, 11:08:59 AM
EDIT:
I've been using the KA Seeded Rye Sandwich Bread recipe which is very good.
I will have to compare it to the Caraway Rye recipe and give it a try next time.
I think we can make very good tasting bread but it is not what our brain thinks it should be.
We've have store bought bread for so many years with the preservatives in them that add to the flavor and texture, and that is something we cannot produce at home.
Trying to find the perfect taste we want might be impossible.
Post by: BigDave83 on March 15, 2022, 10:12:17 PM
Post by: WiPelletHead on March 16, 2022, 06:42:20 PM
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Post by: 02ebz06 on March 16, 2022, 06:50:05 PM
Don't think I've ever eaten it either.
Will have to look into it.
Thanks for posting.
Post by: Bentley on March 16, 2022, 09:29:31 PM
Post by: WiPelletHead on March 16, 2022, 09:50:48 PM
If every there was a bread that yearns for butter or soup to dip in, that bread is it!
Never tried making Soda Bread. Looks good.
Don't think I've ever eaten it either.
Will have to look into it.
Thanks for posting.
The nice part is that it so easy to make. 4 ingredients, no mixer and no rising.
Post by: BigDave83 on March 17, 2022, 07:46:10 AM
Is it a hard bread through out or just very crusty? I imagine putting it in a bag would soften the crust.
Post by: BigDave83 on March 17, 2022, 08:07:24 AM
So I ask those that are far more knowledgeable. What flours would be the best to buy? I have usually just bought regular AP flour, Gold Medal or even store brand. Never bought King Arthur as growing up I always heard Woman say how she never got good results with it. I never paid much attention but I assume everything I have bought has been bleached. So bleached or unbleached? I read unbleached has a shorter shelf life.
When we go to Gordons I always see the large bags 25 and 50#. So I may end up there if they seem to be good types to keep. I have a chamber sealer so vac sealing will not be an issue. No mylar bags only clear ones, so to protect from the light I had thought about putting it in brown paper bags before sealing. Then I could find a place to put it, maybe some sort of plastic bin or bucket.
Here is a link to the Flour selection at Gordons. If anyone has input I appreciate it, and alternative places I should look. Thank you.
https://gfsstore.com/?ps=flour
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 17, 2022, 11:01:02 AM
Have not tried it, but the Primo Gusto High Gluten Unbleached would probably be good to.
Wish I had a Gordon's here. the local Food Service Warehouse that I can buy from has a limited selection of flour.
As for storage, freezing is absolutely the best way. I have a freezer dedicated to pizza/bread making supplies.
I have a 50lb. bag of flour in there now.
For small 5lb bags of flour like Rye, Pumpernickel, Wheat, etc. I use containers I* got from The Container Store.
They have a nice tight seal. See bottom of picture.
Even if you don't plan on storing in the freezer, you should put it in the freezer for about 3 weeks to Kill any organisms/bugs in it.
Many people put flour in zip-lock bags and then store in the freezer.
I think 5-8 months is the shelf life of flour.
A whole lot longer if kept in freezer.
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on March 17, 2022, 11:51:57 AM
I would highly recommend central milling. I really like the flavor I get with their bakers craft plus bread flour as well as the beehive all purpose. I buy large quantities of both and often mix them 50/50 for many recipes.
The central milling flour isn't that expensive itself but shipping is typically almost as much as the flour. If you buy the big bags and have a distributor close you can pick up for free from them. I've never tried that option yet though as the closest one is in Indianapolis. They have a locater on their website.
Post by: Bentley on March 17, 2022, 12:42:27 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 17, 2022, 12:54:39 PM
No wonder my bread sucks, I do not have the ability to store the flour in a freezer!
I assume you are being facetious. ;D
Post by: Bentley on March 17, 2022, 03:11:44 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 17, 2022, 03:28:10 PM
I go through 50lbs in 8 months, and it is not in the freezer.
Post by: Bentley on March 17, 2022, 04:33:09 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on March 19, 2022, 08:38:18 PM
There was not any fats in this, other than the olive oil I put in the bowl and rubbed on top when I proofed. It proofed for slightly over and hour, punched down and balled again and back in the gas oven with the pilot light, for another 40 minutes. then made in to rolls about 115gr each. Left to raise in the pan for another 35or so. 425 oven for about 30 minutes. Internal temp was 205ish.
Recipe was called Waterford Irish Blaas I think, from Bigger Bolder Baking on YT.
Need to find a soft roll recipe. Probably something with milk in it I am thinking.
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 20, 2022, 11:08:41 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 12, 2022, 07:12:46 PM
These are Crusty European Style Hard Rolls . This is a KA recipe.
Post by: Bentley on April 12, 2022, 10:40:03 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 13, 2022, 09:12:28 AM
Post by: Kristin Meredith on April 13, 2022, 10:21:38 AM
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on April 13, 2022, 11:14:14 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 13, 2022, 11:28:38 AM
Post by: Free Mr. Tony on May 23, 2022, 05:59:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/z6jrQocl.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XHviUE1l.jpeg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on May 23, 2022, 06:41:39 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 23, 2022, 06:49:22 PM
I "should" make some again, but it's hard to do when Einstein's Bagels is only 1/4 mile from our house.
I need to try making Green Chili Cheese. That' is my favorite at Einstein's.
Post by: yorkdude on May 24, 2022, 04:22:50 AM
Post by: Bentley on May 26, 2022, 03:15:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XTkhTQJh.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 26, 2022, 03:48:06 PM
I really like the KA Seeded Rye Sandwich Bread recipe.
Post by: Bentley on May 26, 2022, 04:55:47 PM
Post by: hughver on June 27, 2022, 11:59:56 AM
Post by: Kristin Meredith on June 27, 2022, 03:12:28 PM
Post by: hughver on June 28, 2022, 10:57:29 AM
Post by: Bentley on September 16, 2022, 02:51:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/VFXM72ch.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0CJNr06h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ynyMvmOh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DvL5kPVh.jpg)
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on September 16, 2022, 03:54:17 PM
Post by: Bentley on September 16, 2022, 04:33:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/zg0KJwkh.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on September 16, 2022, 05:16:31 PM
Post by: Darwin on September 16, 2022, 07:05:57 PM
Post by: yorkdude on September 17, 2022, 04:41:25 AM
Post by: BigDave83 on October 01, 2022, 09:39:57 PM
The browner one was cooked in the counter top convection oven and the other 2 in my regular oven. Then brushed with some honey butter I threw together.
1.5C Corn Meal ( I used some ground at a local festival)
1.5C AP Flour
1/3C Sugar
1t salt
2t Baking Powder
1t Baking Soda
1.5C Buttermilk
2 Eggs
2-3T Olive Oil
The Jalapeno is as above with some Chipotle powder, 1 fair sized Jalepeno also some jarred jalapenos chopped,and a can of creamed corn.
The convection oven ran at 380 the regular oven at 400 for about 35 minutes.
It went over very well she said. I took it to her about 20 minutes after being pulled out of the oven so it was still hot.
Post by: BigDave83 on November 24, 2022, 04:41:28 PM
this was a double batch of dough.
6 Cups Flour, I used 3 each AP and Bread flour.
3 Teaspoon Salt
2 cups of milk Used 2%
1 Tablespoon dry yeast
4 Tablespoons sugar
1 cup oil Used olive. I may cut that back some next time.
warmed the milk to around 110° added the sugar and yeast to bloom. then added the oil. mixed this into the flour and salt. mixed well then left sit for about 20 minutes before coming back to knead. covers and put in the gas oven with the pilot light heat for an hour. Took out and turned out on table and cut it up, the rolls 50 grams each give or take 5. Back in the oven for an hour, took out and turned oven on to 350 they took about 20 minutes and were 207 internal. took a stick of butter and rubbed the tops when they came out. These were very soft, people seemed to really like them.
Post by: Bentley on November 24, 2022, 06:07:19 PM
Post by: urnmor on November 24, 2022, 06:38:28 PM
They are great looking dinner rolls!I definitely agree
Post by: 02ebz06 on November 24, 2022, 06:41:22 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on December 26, 2022, 03:52:02 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on December 26, 2022, 06:51:58 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 19, 2023, 03:01:44 PM
Came out great, so will be good to repeat then.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on January 19, 2023, 03:09:43 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 19, 2023, 04:51:40 PM
I can't wait to see pictures of your final Cuban sandwich on the homemade rolls.
If I remember. :( There will be guests over (poker night) so will be busy.
Post by: urnmor on January 22, 2023, 08:43:55 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 25, 2023, 07:06:14 PM
Made some Portuguese Rolls today. These are pretty tasty.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 15, 2023, 11:22:35 AM
Trial run to get a loaf that will be used for Pastrami sandwiches next week.
I added Vital Wheat Gluten to the recipe and it really made a difference.
Gave it some structure, so it will hold together for sandwiches.
Used a 4-1/2 x 8-1/2 pan. was a little small so will use the 5-1/2 x 9-1/2 pans next week.
Also cooked a little longer than I should have, so top is a little too brown.
Recipe called for IT of 195F, but it stalled at 192.7.
I should have pulled them out then, buy let them go another 5 minutes.
Never did get to 195 when I pulled it.
Taste great, that is important.
Going to make another couple loaves of Rye bread tomorrow and a loaf of Vollkornbrot (Pumpernickel)
Post by: BigDave83 on February 15, 2023, 01:19:37 PM
Can't wait to see your pics and maybe process for the PN bread, I have never tried to make it.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 15, 2023, 01:59:09 PM
It is a 2 day process.
Starter and Soaker portions are done today, tomorrow make the bread.
You need a few special items for it: Pumpernickel flour (obviously), Rye Chops, Sunflower seeds, and a 13" Pullman pan.
Will be first time making it, but King Arthur has some pretty good recipes, so confident it will be good (unless I screw up).
Here is the recipe/process --> https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/vollkornbrot-recipe
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 16, 2023, 03:49:46 PM
Now onto making the Jewish Rye bread.
Post by: yorkdude on February 16, 2023, 05:43:22 PM
Absolutely fails!
On a different note, rye or pumpernickel as toast, heck yeah!
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 17, 2023, 11:46:45 AM
Came out good.
Called for scoring the top. but I think it would look better without doing it.
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 23, 2023, 04:47:14 PM
Hope these will have a good structure to support making a sandwich with them.
If not, I have store bought for a backup.
Rye and Pumpernickel are different animals. Harder to work with.
Post by: Bentley on February 23, 2023, 04:47:45 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on February 23, 2023, 05:13:23 PM
They always taste great, but getting them to not want to crumble when you pick a slice up has been the problem.
Don't know if it has been the fact that they were done in a pan, but the get a horizontal crevasse near the top.
So hopefully by trying these as a Boule, they will not have that problem.
Will find out Saturday.
Post by: Bentley on March 18, 2023, 06:51:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IUpGvpfh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MFKJfX1h.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 18, 2023, 06:56:22 PM
Post by: BigDave83 on March 18, 2023, 08:01:31 PM
Post by: yorkdude on March 19, 2023, 05:41:05 AM
Nice looking bread.Yes indeed.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on March 19, 2023, 11:45:00 AM
Post by: Bentley on March 23, 2023, 07:56:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5E0T2ZIh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/l8cIDDxh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q6hWHINh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EOHIboNh.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 24, 2023, 09:48:08 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on March 24, 2023, 02:02:49 PM
Post by: Bentley on April 28, 2023, 07:01:06 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/N1elRrwh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/S4JuDkih.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/06GGUEjh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1zPDgo3h.jpg)
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 29, 2023, 09:12:25 AM
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 03, 2023, 04:53:22 PM
Took a packet (10g) of yeast out of freezer that I had dried and ground to powder.
It had been in there for 10 years. Haha
After 3 days, bubbles lookin' good. Can't keep a good yeast down.
Stay tuned...
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 13, 2023, 02:31:08 PM
Made some Sourdough Cheddar crackers today,
Planning on Sourdough Cheddar Green Chili bread Tuesday.
Post by: BigDave83 on May 13, 2023, 07:32:09 PM
Post by: jdmessner on May 20, 2023, 12:12:10 PM
The recipe calls for AP flour, which kind of surprised me. We did use bread flour to give it a little more structure. He made the biga the night before. The total yield for our efforts was 90 rolls at three ounces each and one loaf of bread, just over 1 lb. (there were an additional 3 rolls that somehow never quite made it to the packaging stage)!
My friend is part of a bread baking forum, similar to this one. If you google "fresh loaf forum" you should be able to find it. He has been a part of that forum for quite a while. It sounds like a fairly serious group, with a lot of good information.
Here is the recipe we used. We made two of the 7 lb. batches. He did say it was OK to share it.
Portuguese Sweet Bread with Biga
Biga - a type of pre-fermentation used in many popular Italian breads. It adds complexity to the bread's flavor and is often used in breads that need a light, open texture with holes.
Biga Recipe:
White AP Flour: 308g 470g
Water: 194g 296g
Salt: 8g 12g
Yeast (dry): ¼ tsp ¼ tsp
Final Dough
White AP Flour: 709g 1243g
Milk, warm: 257g 450g
Honey: 149g 261g
Eggs: 125g 220g
Butter (soft): 110g 193g
Sugar: 55g 96g
Yeast (dry): 8g 14g
Salt: 6g 11g
Biga 445g 778g
Total Yield: 4.1 lb. 7.2 lb.
1. Prepare biga, mix/knead until a smooth ball forms, mix/knead until a smooth ball forms. Cover and set aside for 12-16 hours.
2. Mix final dough ingredients together on speed 1, adding biga as dough comes together. Set timer for 3 minutes.
3. Mix on speed 2 for 3 more minutes, scraping dough occasionally (about once per minute) from side of bowl and the dough hook. Dough forms a loose ball on the hook, but is too sticky to clean the bowl.
4. From the mixing bowl, transfer to a lightly floured table and form into a loose ball before placing in a lightly oiled bowl to rise.
5. Cover and set aside for 2 hours, folding after 1 hour.
6. Shape.
7. Final fermentation (covered in plastic or in a humid environment. Loaves about 1.5 hrs. at 75 degrees, rolls may take up to 2 hours at 75 degrees.
8. Three-ounce rolls baked in a convection oven at 325 take 15 minutes (no steaming). Pan loaves at 1.5 pounds take 35 minutes (no steaming) to reach an IT of 200 degrees.
Post by: jdmessner on May 20, 2023, 12:19:23 PM
The teacher!
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Post by: 02ebz06 on May 20, 2023, 01:17:30 PM
I've made Portuguese dinner rolls that were really good.
I'll have to see how that recipe compares to the one you provided.
Thanks for posting this.
EDIT: Will take a bit of doing to scale it down. Don't intend on making 90. Haha
Post by: jdmessner on May 20, 2023, 02:38:40 PM
EDIT: Will take a bit of doing to scale it down. Don't intend on making 90. Haha
We did two of the larger batches, leaving us with a little over 14 lbs. of dough. If you follow the smaller recipe you will end up with around 4 lbs, and that is a much more manageable size to work with. He had a 7 quart mixer and the larger batch came close to reaching its limits.
Post by: BigDave83 on May 20, 2023, 03:09:31 PM
Interesting the same amount of yeast 1/4 teaspoon for both batches in the Biga part.
I may try these.
How large are they?
Went back and I see now, 3oz so about 90 grams.
Post by: Bentley on May 20, 2023, 04:32:29 PM
I must be missing something? I am assuming the biga is like a mother or starter. I am also assuming you add it to the final dough. So which is the smaller recipe?
If you follow the smaller recipe you will end up with around 4 lbs, and that is a much more manageable size to work with.
Post by: BigDave83 on May 20, 2023, 05:47:40 PM
Took a few minutes this morning and made it easier to see.
I have this in a Google spreadsheet there are no formulas I just copied and rearranged it. But if anyone wants it leave me know.
Post by: jdmessner on May 20, 2023, 09:16:40 PM
Bentley - You are correct, the biga is kind of like a sourdough starter. However it is the consistency of a dough rather than a sponge for a typical starter. When we started to knead the dough in the mixer, the biga was cut into small chunks and placed in the mixer while it was going.
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 21, 2023, 11:04:31 AM
Doesn't have .25 oz. but has .2, so you can get close.
Post by: BigDave83 on May 21, 2023, 05:41:53 PM
If you want to change the yeast to grams, here is a conversion chart.
Doesn't have .25 oz. but has .2, so you can get close.
Nice I am keeping that, it does have 0.25 tsp of dry yeast at 0.7 grams
I just noticed the Biga has 1/4 tsp but the other dough is in grams.
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 21, 2023, 06:49:51 PM
Post by: Bentley on May 21, 2023, 07:07:22 PM
Post by: jdmessner on May 22, 2023, 03:04:39 PM
Post by: jdmessner on May 22, 2023, 03:07:08 PM
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Post by: hughver on May 23, 2023, 07:23:16 PM
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on May 23, 2023, 07:50:37 PM
Post by: 02ebz06 on May 24, 2023, 11:17:24 AM
We have one of those silicon pans for making min-muffins. Work well.
Lew, you could just use a banana bread recipe for muffins. If you have one, that is.
Post by: Bar-B-Lew on May 24, 2023, 11:19:22 AM
Look very good.
We have one of those silicon pans for making min-muffins. Work well.
Lew, you could just use a banana bread recipe for muffins. If you have one, that is.
My wife does the baking and she is out of the country right now. Was going to put her to work making me some muffins when she gets home this weekend. ;D
Post by: hughver on May 24, 2023, 12:42:30 PM
I'd be interested in that recipe if you won't mind sharing.
No problem, this is a modified version of a recipe from the web.
Banana Nut Muffins
Ingredients:
1/2 cup melted and slightly cooled, unsalted butter.
2/3 cup light brown sugar, lightly packed. (I used dark)
2 large eggs (room temp.)
2 cups mashed very ripe bananas, (I used 4 bananas)
2 tsp. pure vanilla extract
1 3/4 cup all-purpose flour
1 tsp. baking soda.
1 tsp. baking powder, (my addition)
1/4 tsp. salt, (I used kosher)
1/4 tsp. ground nutmeg, (my addition)
1/2 tsp. ground cinnamon
2/3 cup coarsely chopped walnuts or pecans, (I used pecans)
2/3 cup Rasins, (my addition)
Original recipe had a brown sugar and nut topping consisting of 1/4 cup brown sugar and 2-3 Tbs. nuts, which I did not use.
Instructions:
(I am severely typing challenged so I cut and pasted instructions.)
Preheat oven to 350°F.
In a large bowl, whisk melted butter and ⅔ cup brown sugar until well combined, about 1 full minute. Add eggs, mashed banana and vanilla, whisking until combined.
In a separate bowl, combine the flour, baking soda, salt, and cinnamon. Add dry ingredients to the wet ingredients and use a rubber spatula to lightly stir the batter until almost combined. Add 2/3 cup nuts and Rasins, stir until no streaks of flour remain. Be careful not to over-mix.
Grease 15 standard-sized muffin cups and divide the batter evenly among the cups. Sprinkle the top of each cup with brown sugar and chopped walnuts (topping). Bake for 14-17 minutes, until a toothpick inserted into the center comes out clean. Place the pan on a wire rack to cool.
I used both metal and silicon pans. Metal pan was done in 17 minutes, IT was 196-200°.
Silicon took another 10 minutes.
Post by: hughver on May 27, 2023, 02:27:04 PM